[Sayuri]

But when you breed for the show ring, anything goes. Because they don't care about the dogs body's ability to withstand life, its ability to work, temperament, or how intelligent it is in the show ring. They want the color, stack, correct shaped eyes, and ear set that will make their dogs a champion and bring them in millions of dollars for pups and stud fees.

I don't mean to go completely OT, but here's where I wouldn't mind making a few points, in defense of those of us that participate in conformation, and are *not* going about it the wrong way. What you've described above is not a good breeder - it's not the type of behavior or attitude anyone that is truly serious about their breed wants to be taken as representative of their community.

When you breed for the show ring, anything goes? Haha - AS IF! Maybe that's true for your breed - I wouldn't know as I'm not involved in Border Collies, though I do understand there's a lot of strife and argumentation between show and working breeders - but in Shibas, that's as far from true as you can get. Anything certainly DOES NOT go. Crappy temperaments - quite frankly, who on earth wants a mentally unbalanced, aggressive spitz type that is perfectly capable of disembowling a wild boar? Any takers? I didn't think so. Those of us in the breed that show and know what we are doing understand that a Shiba should demonstrate a good nature, gentle disposition, faithfulness, and obedience - these attributes combined are described as "ryosei" and a Shiba that doesn't have them just isn't a Shiba. It's ESSENTIAL that they display this quality. The dog should also have a modest, and genuine spirit, one that is without artifice or vulgarity - we call this "soboku." And finally, the Shiba, to temper and balance the previous characteristics, should have "kan-i:" a bravery, boldness, alertness, and dignity. We want all of these characteristics to be present in our dogs, *along* with excellent structure and movement, supreme health, and typiness. Call me crazy, but I like the idea of breeding for the total package - a beautiful dog that has a shotty temperament or that breaks down on workouts? Sorry, but that's not getting bred. An incorrectly marked or colored dog with some other conformational errors but an excellent temperament? Nope - he'll make a wonderful pet for someone, but I'll wait to find the dog that has it *all.* There's no hurry in breedings, as far as I'm concerned. Why not wait for that near perfect specimen?

It may not be of concern in other breeds, but for Shibas, typiness is still important. For one thing, not many of us are out there hunting wild boar with our dogs anymore - so *only* breeding for working ability does not make sense. For another, NIPPO was established so that the true Japanese breeds could be preserved in their entirety - if everyone in NIPPO started going "screw coat quality and ear set, or size doesn't really matter" eventually you wouldn't have a Shiba at all, just some mishmash or amalgam of what they used to be. And as much as some might not agree, most of us in Shibas do agree that coat quality, ear set, size, tail set, etc. actually ARE related to function. We want a sashio tail for a REASON - not just because it looks good but because it makes the ideal rudder for an animal sprinting, turning and twisting while it hunts the wild boar. Similarly, an over large dog is not going to be able to maneouvre the way that a Shiba-sized dog is.

I want to add that this does not mean our dogs DON'T have working ability. There are hunting trials being held in Japan, many people in the states are discovering the joy of hunting with their Shibas, my breeder has several dogs that have participated in wild boar hunts, and I've seen my dogs' instincts in action - and also seen them bring prey down.

As for intelligence - my show dog (and my pet boy from the same breeder) are WICKED smart.

We don't care about the dogs' ability to withstand life? That's another gross generalization of conformation breeders. Why all of the health tests then? The OFAs, the CERFs, the screenings for thyroid problems. I know plenty of breeders (and not just in my own breed) that have decided to cut lovely dogs out of their breeding programs because of test results - these animals were never bred, and lived out their lives happily as pets without ever contributing to the gene pool. It makes me pretty sick to think that working people honestly believe that conformation people don't give a crud about quality of life. Not true in the least.

And finally, millions of dollars in stud fees and puppies? HAHAHAHAHA! Where do you think this money comes from? The reputable breeders in conformation are certainly not raking in this cash - I'd love to know who you think IS - or who you KNOW is, because no one I know that is a reputable breeder is making money. Good breeders are lucky to ever break *even* on a litter - most of the time they're in the hole after spending the money on health tests and checks, show entries, food, supplies, and time - I believe Crossfire has a wonderful sticky up in the breeder section called "The Cost of Raising a Litter" (I may be wrong on the poster and/or title, but you'll find it in there somewhere). The prices charged buyers are there to hopefully recoup some of those losses so that that money can, guess what, go straight back into the breeding program. I don't know anyone decent that is making millions because of dog breeding. It's a passion and hobby - not a business.

I can understand your frustration regarding the disparity between show and conformation Border Collies - but please don't paint everyone with the same broad strokes and generalization. To make it look as if all anyone in conformation cares about is ribbons, trophies and flash is incorrect, and quite frankly, hurtful.

Sorry to hijack your thread, Tarragon - good luck with your pup search! (It sounds as if either a Lab or a Springer would do excellently in your home).