Do I rock the boat or shut up?

feinwerkbau · 12-10-2005, 07:55 AM

Specifically with regards to training, tools and methodologies.

Can I throw up something potentially volatile for discussion or debate? It involves the very heart and soul of many things and everything a person or trainer may belief, and influence others with.

It's something which has been bugging me for a long time, and I feel that GP may be a place where we can openly discuss certain matters, regardless of our different beliefs and experiences.

Please let me know. If PM is a more comfortable medium, I shall respect that privacy to the utmost.

It's something that may upset some people, and some professionals in the industry.

But I promise you it's not made up. It's something that happens everyday, to the potential detriment of training our dogs and our understanding ... and yes, it happens here as well, quite consciously I would add.

Miss. Chi · 12-10-2005, 07:58 AM

Rock the boat until it tips baby. I LOVE a good debate. Even if I can't participate.

An you seem like a very lucid person.....I've seen a bunch of crazies on here. Even as my short term as a member.

MC

D.Schäferhund · 12-10-2005, 07:59 AM

Ok i don't know yet what u are talking about. But I would be interested in what it is.
If it is so difficult, i will promise on my side to look at "it" objective and give my best to see what it is made of and why.

You make it sound like it might get very emotional, bacause it is a difficult problem. i would like to hear about "it".

Tiffany0204 · 12-10-2005, 08:05 AM

Indeed. Might as well get the discussion going!

tessa_s212 · 12-10-2005, 08:50 AM

Rock it, baby

Jamilupine · 12-10-2005, 09:12 AM

What an attention grabing post!! Lets hear it!

Raised By Wolves · 12-10-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss. Chi

I've seen a bunch of crazies on here. Even as my short term as a member.
MC

Hey! Who you callin' crazy!

Let er rip, Fein!

Sheltiemama · 12-10-2005, 09:23 AM

IMO there is no one size fits all in training a dog just as there isn't any set of instructions that come with your children when they are born. I agree that there are some old school trainers that use harsher methods for training than I would, but I'm not in their shoes nor am I training the same dog. I feel that a pup should not be introduced to these harsher methods until all other methods have failed to produce results. I'm talking about choke collars, electronic collars, prong collars and the like. If a dog is head strong and just will not comply with say, +R training or clicker training then it's time to try something else... What ever that would be is up to the individual and their preferences. The optimum word here is results, not short cuts or lazy trainers finding the easiest method for achieving those results. That approach can backfire with tremendous harm to the dog.
Each person has to evaluate their own situation and dog and decide what method to start with and work forward from there.

TribalRats · 12-10-2005, 09:26 AM

Lets hear it!!

Crossfire Bulldogs · 12-10-2005, 10:47 AM

No need to keep quiet Fein. Your welcome to start a debate any time you wish.

While there are those that may not like what is being said, disagree with your position on the topic or even feel it too volatile for discussion I believe our Global Pawites will handle it in the very same fashion as they always have.....with respect for the other parties involved in the debate and without malice.

We have a wonderful group of people here and our debate area is one of the best on the net, why not post and have a good healthy time of it?

anaconda · 12-10-2005, 11:17 AM

Well? What are we waiting for?

sammy · 12-10-2005, 11:49 AM

LOL I'm not sure wether to hope I'm one of the "crazies" or hope I'm not

Well you've got all of our curiosity peaked so let's hear it!!!

***Carrie*** · 12-10-2005, 11:59 AM

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Raised By Wolves · 12-10-2005, 12:10 PM

I know he's out there...I can hear him breathin'

Barrett · 12-10-2005, 12:11 PM

C'mon Fein... I'll die of suspense before long! Rock the Boat! I have to go to work soon and I'll miss the beginning of the discussion

12-10-2005, 07:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
feinwerkbau Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 432 Rep Power: 87	Do I rock the boat or shut up? Specifically with regards to training, tools and methodologies. Can I throw up something potentially volatile for discussion or debate? It involves the very heart and soul of many things and everything a person or trainer may belief, and influence others with. It's something which has been bugging me for a long time, and I feel that GP may be a place where we can openly discuss certain matters, regardless of our different beliefs and experiences. Please let me know. If PM is a more comfortable medium, I shall respect that privacy to the utmost. It's something that may upset some people, and some professionals in the industry. But I promise you it's not made up. It's something that happens everyday, to the potential detriment of training our dogs and our understanding ... and yes, it happens here as well, quite consciously I would add.
feinwerkbau Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 432 Rep Power: 87

12-10-2005, 07:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Miss. Chi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 86 Rep Power: 63	Rock the boat until it tips baby. I LOVE a good debate. Even if I can't participate. An you seem like a very lucid person.....I've seen a bunch of crazies on here. Even as my short term as a member. MC
	__________________ All dogs go to heaven because, unlike people, dogs are naturally good and loyal and kind. ~Amen to that~

12-10-2005, 08:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
Tiffany0204 Due in December! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Barrie, ON - Canada! Posts: 867 Rep Power: 90	Indeed. Might as well get the discussion going!
	__________________

12-10-2005, 08:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
tessa_s212 animal rescue advocate Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Stryker, Ohio Posts: 646 Rep Power: 82	Rock it, baby
	__________________ I dream of the day that no animal must lose its life due to human irresponsibility and negligence. Stop animal overpopulation! Spay & Neuter your Pets!

12-10-2005, 09:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jamilupine We Graduated! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Modesto, CA Posts: 547 Rep Power: 73	What an attention grabing post!! Lets hear it!
	__________________ ~Jami

12-10-2005, 07:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
D.Schäferhund let's work Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,801 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 114	Ok i don't know yet what u are talking about. But I would be interested in what it is. If it is so difficult, i will promise on my side to look at "it" objective and give my best to see what it is made of and why. You make it sound like it might get very emotional, bacause it is a difficult problem. i would like to hear about "it".

12-10-2005, 09:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sheltiemama Shelties forever! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 695 Rep Power: 82	IMO there is no one size fits all in training a dog just as there isn't any set of instructions that come with your children when they are born. I agree that there are some old school trainers that use harsher methods for training than I would, but I'm not in their shoes nor am I training the same dog. I feel that a pup should not be introduced to these harsher methods until all other methods have failed to produce results. I'm talking about choke collars, electronic collars, prong collars and the like. If a dog is head strong and just will not comply with say, +R training or clicker training then it's time to try something else... What ever that would be is up to the individual and their preferences. The optimum word here is results, not short cuts or lazy trainers finding the easiest method for achieving those results. That approach can backfire with tremendous harm to the dog. Each person has to evaluate their own situation and dog and decide what method to start with and work forward from there.
	__________________ THE RESCUE SQUAD!!

12-10-2005, 09:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
TribalRats Take Responsibility Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Central Valley, CA Posts: 3,327 Rep Power: 145	Lets hear it!!
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

12-10-2005, 10:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 285	No need to keep quiet Fein. Your welcome to start a debate any time you wish. While there are those that may not like what is being said, disagree with your position on the topic or even feel it too volatile for discussion I believe our Global Pawites will handle it in the very same fashion as they always have.....with respect for the other parties involved in the debate and without malice. We have a wonderful group of people here and our debate area is one of the best on the net, why not post and have a good healthy time of it?
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~ Gerry Spence As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

12-10-2005, 11:17 AM	#11 (permalink)
anaconda Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Spain Posts: 410 Rep Power: 67	Well? What are we waiting for?
	__________________

12-10-2005, 11:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
sammy herding dog lover Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: western canada Posts: 1,089 Rep Power: 113	LOL I'm not sure wether to hope I'm one of the "crazies" or hope I'm not Well you've got all of our curiosity peaked so let's hear it!!!

12-10-2005, 11:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,430 Rep Power: 287	Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

12-10-2005, 12:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
Raised By Wolves Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,523 Rep Power: 128	I know he's out there...I can hear him breathin'

12-10-2005, 12:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
Barrett dachshund Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Washington Posts: 2,758 Rep Power: 157	C'mon Fein... I'll die of suspense before long! Rock the Boat! I have to go to work soon and I'll miss the beginning of the discussion

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