Fussy Pooper or a Battle of Wills (update)

[DaisySunshine]

Daisy was a bad girl yesterday. She refused to go in the backyard so I took her on a potty walk in the back alley. She did good there and went potty. I praised and treated her. But while I was getting ready for work, she went potty in the second bedroom again.

So today, I took her out in the backyard and she peed like a good girl but once again refused to potty. We on a potty walk in the back alley and she didn't go. When we went back in the house I kept her on her leash. While I was getting ready for work, her leash was attached to the towel bar so she couldn't run around free. I took her back out a couple more times and she refused to go each time.

She was crate trained as a puppy but as soon as I could trust her, I let her have the run of the house while I was at home, including sleeping in the big bed. So she hasn't been in a crate for long time. I thought that just attaching her leash to the towel bar would be the same as crating her, ie. restricting her freedom. Am I mistaken in thinking this?

Before I left, we went out into the backyard and she sniffed around like she was looking for a spot but when I got stern with her she just laid down and refused to go.

I wanted to leave her on a good note, so I had her do puppy-pushups a few time before I left. She did them readily and I treated and praised her good. Right now she is confined in the kitchen with a piddle pad (I am worried about causing medical problems if she doesn't go potty). I plan to go and check on her at lunch.

Am I doing this correctly? I know it will take awhile for her to understand and for me to get it right. I don't want to confuse her. Is the piddle pad causing the confusion?

Right now I am feeling like a bad dog mom.

[mrsgrubby]

I don't understand why you got stern with her when you thought she was sniffing around for a spot to go potty? Would it be better to turn your back and not say anything? Sounds like you are making her nervous.

Also, I WOULD NOT use a piddle pad in the house at all. yes, this could cause confusion. You are trying to stop her potty in the house, not encourage it.

This morning the tying to the towel bar was probably ok since you were right there, but crating in most cases is probably better. Like when you left for work since you were going to just be gone a few hours I would have crated her and come back on lunch. She would have either held it, or gone in the crate, neither of which she would have liked and both would have encouraged her to go potty outside next time.

Now there was no consequences for her naughty actions and you gave her an "easy out" like ok baby, if you don't want too go potty outside, then I will let you do it inside and get your way. You just taught her something, and it wasn't what you were hoping to teach.

In my opinion when she starts paying the bills, she can potty where she wants.LOL

[DaisySunshine]

Originally Posted by mrsgrubby

I don't understand why you got stern with her when you thought she was sniffing around for a spot to go potty? Would it be better to turn your back and not say anything? Sounds like you are making her nervous.

Also, I WOULD NOT use a piddle pad in the house at all. yes, this could cause confusion. You are trying to stop her potty in the house, not encourage it.

This morning the tying to the towel bar was probably ok since you were right there, but crating in most cases is probably better. Like when you left for work since you were going to just be gone a few hours I would have crated her and come back on lunch. She would have either held it, or gone in the crate, neither of which she would have liked and both would have encouraged her to go potty outside next time.

Now there was no consequences for her naughty actions and you gave her an "easy out" like ok baby, if you don't want too go potty outside, then I will let you do it inside and get your way. You just taught her something, and it wasn't what you were hoping to teach.

In my opinion when she starts paying the bills, she can potty where she wants.LOL

LOL! Just being cute isn't enough?

She sniffed around but then walked away from the spot and tried to head towards the door. I told her "you go potty, I mean it" in a stern voice and then picked her up and put her back on the dirt part of the yard.

I will take the piddle pad out when I go home at lunch.

Into the crate she goes!

My poor dog. She is going to need psychiatric care soon.

[mrsgrubby]

Ok, now I understand about the sternness, I would have done the same thing. Sometimes when Violet won't go in the yard I put her on a 6 foot leash and just stand still. I won't walk or move. Then she has to stay in the potty spot. She usually runs about 10 circles around me then squats and goes.

No...being cute is not enough!!!!! I am sure you are cute too...do you potty on the floor?LOL

Hopefully she will potty on lunch and all will be fine.

Also, don't feel bad for her, make sure whenever you are with her you are calm and confident. She will know if you feel sorry for you and that will make being the leader hard for you. Dogs live in the moment, they want rules, they want structure, they are not humans with feelings like ours.

Your dog will love you for getting things on track and straightend out, but you won't be able to do it if you feel sorry for her.

[DaisySunshine]

Originally Posted by mrsgrubby

Ok, now I understand about the sternness, I would have done the same thing. Sometimes when Violet won't go in the yard I put her on a 6 foot leash and just stand still. I won't walk or move. Then she has to stay in the potty spot. She usually runs about 10 circles around me then squats and goes.

No...being cute is not enough!!!!! I am sure you are cute too...do you potty on the floor?LOL

Hopefully she will potty on lunch and all will be fine.

Also, don't feel bad for her, make sure whenever you are with her you are calm and confident. She will know if you feel sorry for you and that will make being the leader hard for you. Dogs live in the moment, they want rules, they want structure, they are not humans with feelings like ours.

Your dog will love you for getting things on track and straightend out, but you won't be able to do it if you feel sorry for her.

I have had cats all my life so I am used to being manipulated and bossed around. Having to be a leader is a new thing for me. And, No, I don't potty on the floor. LOL!

I will follow your suggestions. Thank you so much for your help! I just have to remember I am the leader and she has to potty where I tell her too.

So was it not a good thing to have her go through puppy-pushups for treats and praises? How should I have handled that? I should have just walked away and left her knowing that I was not happy with her behavior.

What do you think?

[mrsgrubby]

Originally Posted by DaisySunshine

! I just have to remember I am the leader and she has to potty where I tell her too.

So was it not a good thing to have her go through puppy-pushups for treats and praises? How should I have handled that? I should have just walked away and left her knowing that I was not happy with her behavior.

Right, You are the leader, you make the money, you buy the food, you provide the house and the vet care, and she must obey the few rules you set, like no potty in the house, walking nice on a leash, not rushing ahead of you through doors, ect.

I dont' think the puppy pushups were wrong. I think making her work for the treat you wanted to give her was absolutely right. It would have been wrong to just give her a treat without her earning it I think.

do you like to read? There are several good books out there about being the leader, One is called "the other end of the leash" and the other is Cesar Millan's new book called "Cesar's Way" I loved them both.

[DaisySunshine]

Originally Posted by mrsgrubby

Right, You are the leader, you make the money, you buy the food, you provide the house and the vet care, and she must obey the few rules you set, like no potty in the house, walking nice on a leash, not rushing ahead of you through doors, ect.

I dont' think the puppy pushups were wrong. I think making her work for the treat you wanted to give her was absolutely right. It would have been wrong to just give her a treat without her earning it I think.

do you like to read? There are several good books out there about being the leader, One is called "the other end of the leash" and the other is Cesar Millan's new book called "Cesar's Way" I loved them both.

I am headed to the bookstore before I go home. I will read while she potties.

[Raised By Wolves]

Originally Posted by DaisySunshine

I am headed to the bookstore before I go home. I will read while she potties.

Sounds like you are on the right track! "The Other End of the Leash" is by Patricia McConnell. Cesar's book is excellent. I highly recommend it!

Mrsgrubby's suggestion to not put pressure on your dog when you want her to "go", is very important. It is also important that you never raise your voice or punish her in any way for an "accident". Your dog may think "going" is wrong altogether and not understand it's "where" they are going that you are displeased with. This can cause them to not go in front of you.

Rather than quick "potty" breaks in the alley, a nice walk where you don't focus too much attention on her, should help her relax and go, without feeling pressured.

[DaisySunshine]

Originally Posted by Raised By Wolves

Sounds like you are on the right track! "The Other End of the Leash" is by Patricia McConnell. Cesar's book is excellent. I highly recommend it!

Mrsgrubby's suggestion to not put pressure on your dog when you want her to "go", is very important. It is also important that you never raise your voice or punish her in any way for an "accident". Your dog may think "going" is wrong altogether and not understand it's "where" they are going that you are displeased with. This can cause them to not go in front of you.

Rather than quick "potty" breaks in the alley, a nice walk where you don't focus too much attention on her, should help her relax and go, without feeling pressured.

I got the book! It looks like it will be really good.

I am sure she is feeling pressured why she has someone saying "go potty, go potty, go potty," every 15 seconds. She can't poo under pressure!

One thing I have never done is disciplined her when she has had an accident. At first because I knew she didn't know better and now because it is so after the fact that she has forgotten. Besides, her current problem is really my problem!! Ha!

I guess I am adding a morning walk to my routine.

[Carrie]

I highly recommend Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. It will make you stop seeing your dog as "naughty" and having all these morals that we do. It will make you take a look at how you're training her and how you're viewing her as something different than an animal who has no clue what right and wrong is. That book says it all. I loved The Other End of the Leash also. You need to prevent accidents. They're "your" accidents, not hers. She needs an ample amount of successes/reinforcements for correct responses before she stops guessing at what it is she's suppose to be doing. She's not there yet. That's the only reason plus immaturity that she's not all the way house broken.

[DaisySunshine]

Originally Posted by Carrie

I highly recommend Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. It will make you stop seeing your dog as "naughty" and having all these morals that we do. It will make you take a look at how you're training her and how you're viewing her as something different than an animal who has no clue what right and wrong is. That book says it all. I loved The Other End of the Leash also. You need to prevent accidents. They're "your" accidents, not hers. She needs an ample amount of successes/reinforcements for correct responses before she stops guessing at what it is she's suppose to be doing. She's not there yet. That's the only reason plus immaturity that she's not all the way house broken.

Cool! I will get that book too. Thank you for the recommendation!

[Raised By Wolves]

Originally Posted by DaisySunshine

I got the book! It looks like it will be really good.

I am sure she is feeling pressured why she has someone saying "go potty, go potty, go potty," every 15 seconds. She can't poo under pressure!

One thing I have never done is disciplined her when she has had an accident. At first because I knew she didn't know better and now because it is so after the fact that she has forgotten. Besides, her current problem is really my problem!! Ha!

I guess I am adding a morning walk to my routine.

Good luck! I'm sure youll do fine!

[DaisySunshine]

Originally Posted by Raised By Wolves

Good luck! I'm sure youll do fine!

I hope soo. My poor little dog. I know she tries hard to be a good dog. I just haven't shown her how! If I showed her how, I know she would walk through hot, fiery coals for me.

[sammy]

When you take her out and she doesn't poop, she doesn't have to go or doesn't want to be rushed or whatever.
If I came to your house right now and told you to go to the washroom and poop could you? What if I took you by the hand to the washroom , and stood outside the door and said in a stern voice" go poop! go poop!" would that help?

My point isn't that it's wrong to take you dog out to relieve themselves, but to demand that they do both jobs at any certain time is not fair or realistic. If your dog isn't going it isn't spite or a battle of wills it's probably that she doesn't have the urge to go at that time. Take her out in 15 or 20 minutes and give her another opportunity.

I highly recommend Culture Clash as well-- still my all time fav. I also suggest you read "Don't shoot the dog" by Karen Pryor . My new absolute favorite training resource though is www.clickersolutions.com it has a section of training articles written by some of the best trainers and Ph.D behaviorists in the world. You can search articles by topic or by author. They are absolutely fantastic, right at your finger tips and the best part-- totally free!!!

[Carrie]

If I showed her how, I know she would walk through hot, fiery coals for me.

LOL. Don't kid yourself. She may walk through hot fiery coals but it won't be for you. It would be for herself. Dogs do what works to survive. If it means living, getting food, having security of a social group, they'll try to learn whatever is needed, even if that means pleasing you. LOL. But, directly to care about your internal state, no. Too abstract. But ya gotta know how to teach them and they need to be successful many times for something in order that it be repeated.

Yes, Sammy! Super suggestions. Don't Shoot the Dog is excellent. It really gets into the nitty gritty of dog training. That and the other books I mentioned really explain behavior and how we as primates get along with dogs (mistakes and ways to modify things) and how they are very capable of learning our "language"....our ways through proper training.