Our dogs are fighting............help!

[bosley]

We have two dogs, one lab mix (Bosley)about 120 lbs that is harmless and another mix that we adopted from the animal control about 2 1/2 years ago (Sugar - 65 lbs). Our problem is with Sugar. They loved her when we adopted her from Animal Control, the volunteers were confused why she was there so long without bieng put to sleep. So she must of gotten along with all dogs just fine, and they loved her. She is extremely alpha, extremely strong a bit stubborn and jealous. At the same time very sweet and loves to be close and with people.

Over the 2 1/2 years we have had her around both male & female dogs, eventually she ends up fighting. Very aggressively. She is part pit bull (I believe) and has that latch on and don't let go attitude. Once she has decided on something there is no changing her mind and will not listen.

We now don't have her around other dogs without being leashed and under voice control on the leash. She had extreme separation anxiety when we got her and was not house trained. She now is FT house dog and no longer has the seperation anxiety. She loves people and great with our 4 year old, never aggressive even when he bugs her excessively.

She has fought with our other dog (Bosley) when we 1st got her. We have made changes with food etc and have not had anything happen in a long time until last night. Our other dog Bosley talks to anyone when people get too close and he feels vulnerable or trapped. I think this started when my husband stepped on him a few times while sleeping, getting out of bed. So now he warns everyone that he is there by letting out a growl. It is very funny, but not aggressive at all. He just likes his "personal space".

Last night our dogs got in a fight. Bosley ended up pretty bloody, with puncture wounds in his neck. I believe this is what happened: Bosley got trapped behind a chair in a small space, Sugar went into that space and Bosley growled and Sugar started attacking aggressively. Luckily my husband was there to help break it up.

I don't want to get rid of her but I am 8 1/2 months pregnant with a lot of other changes going on and I don't want to be home alone and have to break up another fight or have Bosley get extremely injured. I also don't want to go thru another change of getting rid of her either right now. I am soooo confused and stressed about this. Does anyone have any suggestion? We had Sugar sleep in the garage last night and let her in briefly this morning and she & my other dog seemed fine, but I am nervous so I put her back in the garage till I figure out what I am going to do. Help please?

[mrsgrubby]

well if you are going to be afraid of her then you need to get rid of her. She will know you are afraid and that will make things worse.

Rather than using the garage, I would invest in two crates. Each dog should have their own crate and their own space. Each dog should spend time in their own crate each day, while the other one is out, and at some times they should both be crated at the same time such as meals, and sleeping, or any time they are home alone.

A crate will allow them to be in the house and part of the pack while still being seperated. It will also allow each dog private time alone with the family, which is important.

Also, each day each dog should work on obedience, and if you havent' taken them both to obed class yet I would....especially with a new baby on the way.

Yes, pit bulls fight, it is what they are bred to do. But with proper leadership and training you can avoid fights.

Also, I think you are blaming Sugar too much. Regardless of being stepped on, your other dog SHOULD NOT growl when people come too close. You are making excuses for something that should not be allowed to happen at all. I too have stepped on my dogs in the night, I've also accidently shut my beagle's tail in the door a few times, but they dont' growl at me. And with a new baby that will be crawling soon I would worry about it getting bit.

I am guessing you are letting your one dog get away with too much and being too strict with Sugar. By doing that you and sending mixed messages to the dogs. Especially if Sugar sees herself as pack leader and you are acting like the other dog is.

With that in mind i think I would consult a dog specialist to take a good objective look at how you interact with the two dogs as well.

In the meantime, get crates and alternate who is in and who is out running free...treating both dogs equally.

[bosley]

Thank you I think you are right I do treat my other dog differently - he is such a nice old dog and Sugar is such a stubburn dog, such a "dog". I am not afraid of her. I am afraid of them fighting when I am sooo pregnant and not as agile as I usually am Do I consider crating them forever? Thanks for your feedback.

[IceyBlueSibes]

Great advice mrsgrubby!

In all honestly, I would say using the crates for as long as you have Sugar, or the two of them together, is a pretty sure bet.

You should never trust a pitbull not to fight. So since things have already escalated, there's a sure bet it will happen again, especially since your other dog acts the way he does if someone gets close to him.

Do not leave them together unsupervised. If you are the only one home, and are afraid of a fight breaking out, then try your best to avoid it by doing as mrsgrubby said by alternating the dogs in the crates.

Best of luck. Do let us know if you find a dog behaviorist who can help you personally.

[elegy]

i agree with everything above, and i think mrsgrubby gave you some excellent advice.

a lot of owning a pit/mix in a multi-dog home is management. you need to Be The Boss in a big way, at all times, and BOTH dogs need to know that snarking and fighting is NOT NOT NOT acceptable. it takes two to tango, and sometimes the dog who gets his butt kicked is really the one who started crap. pit bulls have notoriously short fuses- that's just the way they are. it doesn't make them bad, and it doesn't necessarily make them the instigators.

crate or otherwise separate when you can't directly supervise, and practice nilif with both dogs. badrap's multi-dog page may also be of help to you.

personally i'd be way more alarmed by the growling at people, especially with a baby coming.

[Doglover1988]

I agree that no dog should growl at a person. Also I would not let the dogs up on the furniture at all as one may feel higher up than the other and feel the need to be alpha. I had a problem with gracie and maggie fighting they fought at least once a week and sometimes they would get hurt. I started allowing neither one of them up on the furniture and using nilif they occasionally have scraps but there hasn't been a fight in several months.

[Sugardog]

Doglover is right, a dog should never growl at a person. When Bosley growls because he wants his "personal space", that is a form of aggression. If you don't put an end to that now, it can, and probably will, escalate to him actually starting to nip.

Elegy gave great advice as well. You MUST be the boss of both of your dogs. Not only is Sugar a pitbull that more than likely has that bred in dog aggression, she is also a female and some female dogs tend to be more prone to a form of aggression called a "traffic cop". A traffic cop never has any problems with aggression or dominance towards humans, they are typically very loving, friendly dogs. But with other dogs, it's a different story. A traffic cop will take it upon herself to discipline other dogs for anything she doesn't like. A friend of mind has an American Eskimo dog and 2 shelties, she does agility with all of them. At a class, another person had a mixed breed who was barking non stop and was getting very irritating. The moment my friends Eskie hit the target at the bottom of the A-frame, she rushed over and dominantly bumped the mixed breed to get it to shut up.

Luckily, the mixed breed was submissive and no fight broke out. But had that mixed breed not been as submissive as it was, a serious fight could have occured and one or both dogs may have gotten injured. Traffic cop dogs don't go looking to start fights, they just want to be in control of other dogs.

This form of aggression needs to be kept under control. Many people will call it an "alpha" behavior or mistake it as a motherly behavior, or the dog teaching the other dog what is right or wrong and will allow it to happen. Even though dogs will have their own heirarchy among each other (like my whippet mix is naturally submissive and rolls over for my akita mix), they should NEVER be allowed to correct another adult dog. Correcting another dogs mistakes are YOUR job, not hers.

[Fuzz Puppy]

Even though it's hard, I'd rehome Sugar and separatwe them while waiting for someone else to pick her up or something. Two dogs who fight shouldn't be kept together. It will only get worse over a period of time, not better. I wish you luck.

[mrsgrubby]

Originally Posted by bosley

Thank you I think you are right I do treat my other dog differently - he is such a nice old dog and Sugar is such a stubburn dog, such a "dog". I am not afraid of her. I am afraid of them fighting when I am sooo pregnant and not as agile as I usually am Do I consider crating them forever? Thanks for your feedback.

You have gotten alot of good advice on this thread, and I agree that no dogs on the furniture, and making sure you treat them both the same, and making sure you are the total boss of both dogs, and NO GROWLING from your other dog.

However, you are going to need professional help with the no growling thing, because if you just start scolding/punishing her for growling she is likely to stop growling her warning, and just bite/nip instead. So with professional help, you will begin to take the leadership from her as well, and then you can act on the growling.

So to answer your crate question. Yes, I think you need crates and I think both dogs need to sleep in the crate. By being in the crate your dogs will have personal space and the one will have no reason to growl, as you won't be that close to her when she is sleeping. She will learn that her crate is where she will and should sleep, and the bonus is that she will be left alone. Crates are also where they will eat, so again, a positive experience. And crates will the only place they get to eat a bone or chew treats, so they will again love their crates. In fact, to keep them from fighting, only give them high value bones and treats while they are crated so they aren't tempted to steal from each other and fight over them. I think crates will keep you and your children safe, and them safe from fighting.

Many of us with multi dogs crate them while we are away...forever.. and while we are sleeping. I go to my bed, they go to theirs..I don't see any difference. Their crates have doggy beds in them that I wash and fluff weekly, they are very soft and very comfy and a really good size so they can spread out and lay comfortably.

I have a small house so mine are in the dining room, and I actally have stuff stored on top of them so that they really aren't a space issue for me.

I also put toys in them and treats on a regular basis.

The other thing that will help is making sure your dogs are getting plenty of exercise. Dogs feel less like fighting when they are tired. I am sure you dont' feel like walking right now, but at least throw a ball every day, and once the baby is born maybe push the stroller and walk the dogs.

Lastly, I agree with whoever said that even though Sugar looks like she is causing the fights, it could be the other dog instigating the fight, she just can't win it. So again, watch carefully because if she get snarky with Sugar, it isn't necessarily Sugar's fault.

[elegy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz Puppy

Two dogs who fight shouldn't be kept together. It will only get worse over a period of time, not better.

i don't think that's strictly true. a lot depends on the reaction of the owners, and the reaction of the dogs to each other after the fight. if the owners are willing to step up and be proactive, these dogs may be quite able to live together.

my dogs have rumbled at times, only once seriously, but i haven't even had a scuffle in over a year. (that said, we're probably due, and i've probably jinxed it now)

[Fuzz Puppy]

Originally Posted by elegy

i don't think that's strictly true. a lot depends on the reaction of the owners, and the reaction of the dogs to each other after the fight. if the owners are willing to step up and be proactive, these dogs may be quite able to live together.

my dogs have rumbled at times, only once seriously, but i haven't even had a scuffle in over a year. (that said, we're probably due, and i've probably jinxed it now)

Yeah probably. I hope you're right about this issue. All the dog aggression I've seen or attempted to deal with has gotten a lot worse, so it seems to be true for me. I hope it doesn't get any worse, in this case though. Never had to deal with my ownb dogs fighting with other dogs or each other, though.

[IceyBlueSibes]

Originally Posted by elegy

i don't think that's strictly true. a lot depends on the reaction of the owners, and the reaction of the dogs to each other after the fight. if the owners are willing to step up and be proactive, these dogs may be quite able to live together.

my dogs have rumbled at times, only once seriously, but i haven't even had a scuffle in over a year. (that said, we're probably due, and i've probably jinxed it now)

I agree.

Sheiba and Ike will have a scuffle now and then. It was mostly when we were free feeding, and they both would "guard" the food bowl from the other. It would turn into a very short stare down and they were going at it. Once we put them on a scheduled feeding (not same times, but food goes down 2 times a day unless they don't touch it, it goes back up) the fights have stopped.

My females scuffled when they were still intact. Getting them spayed helped to fix the problem.

So.. I think each situation is different. Depending on the dog, the owners, and the environment it's living in would really depend on whether two dogs who have fought could live peacefully together. If it were to the point of the dogs not being able to be around each other at all without fighting, then yes.. that's a situation I would say rehoming a dog would be the best option. I think the OP's main problem is working on the dog who's growling when people get near him.

[bosley]

Wow - this was my 1st experience with this site and I am thankful for all the advice.

Accept for the fight in the beginning over feeding this is the only time they have fought. I was only guessing why it happened. We were both sitting right there but did see or hear anything. My "growler" is vocal we always scold him for growling, but he also rumbles when he lies down, relaxes he is very vocal. Maybe he is getting older and parts hurt when he lies & stands up and that is why. It is not always a "growl" at someone. He is rumbling in the corner on his dog bed as a type this, with no one around? As he is trying to get cumfy on his dog bed. I definitely will be more active in recognizing when it is directed at someone. We do tell him "no" every time???

I totally agree with the walking advice. The 1st thing I thought was they had been locked up in the house without a walk due to rainy weather for 3 or 4 days. So we have been making it a point to walk them every night.

Still my biggest concern is with my female Sugar. I have owned 3 full breed pit bulls prior to Sugar. She is so stubburn once she is focused on something and you cannot get her attention. Two years I have been working on getting her not to pull on a leash. We have been to obedience training. I have read books, I work on it everytime she is walked and she STILL pulls. And is SO strong! She also marks her territory more than any male dog I have had. (I think she is a boy dog stuck in a girl dogs body LOL) So the fight was a surprise, but more so the latching on to what I thought was her buddy.

Now about the crate thing. We crate trained Sugar when we adopted her and it worked. So I don't doubt crate training. I am a little confused about crate training them both now. #1 my 9 year old Bosley is 120 lbs, we do have a cage that he can fit in but it will not fit in our house. And even if we fed, gave treats and put them in the crates to sleep I am not sure that would have stopped that out of the blue brawl. So is it just a way of putting the two dogs as equal. Are we supposed to acknowledge that one dog is dominant or are we supposed to treat them equally? I have heard both.

I am thinking about buying the book, "Fight, A Practical Guide to The treatment of Dog Dog Aggression. I don't want to have to get rid of Sugar, but if I have to I will. She has not had a very good life and I have been so happy to give one to her I would hate to end that. Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Sugardog]

A growl is different than groan. My akita mix will sometimes groan when she lays down or when you rub her belly because it feels good. But you can easily distinguish a growl from a groan.

Unfortunatly dogs don't understand english so saying "Bosley, shame on you, your not supposed to growl" doesn't really do much good
Instead, if he growls when you get close to him, just stand there and ignore it. Once he stops, reward him by either backing off or giving him a treat. This way, he's being rewarded for NOT growling.

For the pulling....Have you taught her the command heel? I mean, really taught the actual command? What methods have you been using to try to get her to walk nicely?

[bosley]

Originally Posted by elegy

i agree with everything above, and i think mrsgrubby gave you some excellent advice.

a lot of owning a pit/mix in a multi-dog home is management. you need to Be The Boss in a big way, at all times, and BOTH dogs need to know that snarking and fighting is NOT NOT NOT acceptable. it takes two to tango, and sometimes the dog who gets his butt kicked is really the one who started crap. pit bulls have notoriously short fuses- that's just the way they are. it doesn't make them bad, and it doesn't necessarily make them the instigators.

crate or otherwise separate when you can't directly supervise, and practice nilif with both dogs. badrap's multi-dog page may also be of help to you.

personally i'd be way more alarmed by the growling at people, especially with a baby coming.

Thanks for that website - tons of good information!