BAD first (and only) day at doggie daycare...

Sophie45 · 03-20-2007, 08:44 PM

I took Sophie about a month ago to get temperament tested (with me there of course) at a local doggie daycare, and did BEAUTIFULLY. I have been extremely adament to socialize her with a LOT of other dogs-big, small, young, old, etc., and she has always been great, and on the submissive side. Two weeks ago, Sophie got spayed, stitches out last Fri.
I had a crazy planned day today, so decided to send her to doggie daycare for the first time for a half day for some socialization and exercise. I get a call two hours later saying I have to pick her up because she was playing aggressively with the other dogs (not hurting them or any fights, but being rough, rude and pushy-too much for the other dogs and was being very persistent!) and would not listen to any command from them. She experienced severe separation anxiety, has very little confidence and was very overwhelmed, and got very bad diarhhea. (which is common for her when she gets excited or stimulated or has a lot of exercise) I had to miss a very important meeting to go pick her up. The owner told me that I really needed to look into serious obedience training immediately (we've done some private sessions with a trainer and puppy kindergarten) and told me she has seen a lot of females become more aggressive after spaying (which I was a bit concerned about, hence my post a week or so ago...) and at her age, 9 mos. "true personality comes out" (is that true?!?!?!? I thought I knew my dog pretty well that I got as a 9 wk puppy, obviously taking into consideration growth and development, but she has maintained the same overall personality!) We are signed up to start intermediate training next week, but I think I am going to amp it up a bit-before this becomes a big problem. I e mailed two of the best known trainers in my area, and want to get started on a regiment ASAP with one on one and then a class setting.
Guess this post was just to kinda rant and whine, I guess, but ANY tips or thoughts are always appreciated...kind of feeling like I failed to raise a confident dog right now...

Rottielvr18 · 03-20-2007, 09:05 PM

Sophie45, it is common for dogs to feel out of their element when its the first time by themselves away from mom or dad. I work at a boarding kennel that also has doggie day care & let me tell you, we have never (knock on wood) sent a doggie home yet! If a dog acts out we simply put them back in the pen or away from the other dogs, till their parents come back. Did you ever ask how many dogs sophie was put with, age range,activity level, or mixed group she "played" with? This could make a huge impact on her sociablitly with others. The puppies we get in (generally ageing from 4-9 months) arnt as out going as others would think a puppy should be. Exspceially if the puppy is for the first time out of her element. You have in NO way failed at raising a confident puppy... dont fret!! I have seen plenty of pups re-act way differntly around others because their simply to over whelmed. Sophie probably does fine when she feels comfortable. Any dog group can play well as long as activtly level & compatibilty are the same.

Beryl · 03-21-2007, 11:51 AM

My dogs frequent doggie day cares and I agree w/Rottie above. If a dog has a behavior problem, most kennels will crate the dog and inform the owner of the problem when they come for pickup. It is true that dogs act VERY differently when mom and dad are away.

They are no different from children -- trust me. I can't tell you how many "angels" become instantly possessed when they get into a classroom.

They can become aggressive or even shy when parents leave. My min pin is only aggressive when I am around. We've concluded that he is trying to "protect" me.

I'm not sure if your day care permits it but my preferred day care has a fenced play area outside which allowed me to observe my dog. They also allow one free courtesy day where my dog was allowed to be there at no charge. I used that free day to observe him and then leave after an hour or so.

Have you looked into another day care?

***Rivsky*** · 03-21-2007, 02:30 PM

I agree with everything said above.

I'd check out another day care place (mine actually video taped River on his first day so I could see and judge for myself that he was having a good time and wasn't stressed or anything).

Also if you do go somewhere else find out what their rules are for socialising dogs - mine is no more than three dogs playing together at a time and there's a also a limit on the number of dogs allowed to go on any given day dependent on how many people there are to supervise.

IceyBlueSibes · 03-21-2007, 06:06 PM

I have to agree with rottielvr. The doggie day care that I work at will not send a dog home based on its behavior.

We actually suggest doing a "trial day" for new dogs coming in. This is 5 hours of free day care. We evaluate the dog on how well they do with the other dogs, and determine whether the owner should bring her back (we let them decide), or if she would rather her be kenneled. A lot of times, the dogs are EXTREMELY nervous on their first time there, but we take this into consideration. This is completely different for them. They eventually warm up after a few more visits.

There is another day care not far from us, who is EXTREMELY strict, and sounds a lot like what happened at your day care. They don't allow barking, they don't allow rude/pushy dogs, they don't allow rough play, and they don't allow certain breeds to play after 6 months of age.

The personalities that range at my work can be anywhere from very reserved dogs, to in your face throw the stinkin' ball! We have quite a few "brats" and we will only allow them to play supervised and if they become too rowdy, we put them in a room for a time out. A few of the dogs we get are from the other day care, because they were "kicked out".

I agree with the others and suggest finding another day care facility in your area. I would think that they would have taken into consideration this was her very first day there, and they should remember that not ALL the dogs will get a long with eachother. Just like people, there are certain individuals the dogs will just not mesh with (whether that's being aggressive towards them, scared, pushy, etc).

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. If you lived in my area, I'd invite you to come to my work!

WolfRyder · 03-21-2007, 06:36 PM

If your dog hasn't play a lot with other dogs, she may not know quite how to go about it. I know Bobbie started being more "pushy" around 9 months, but through telling her to stop or knock it off, she's gotten over it.

Plus I've notice different dogs play in different ways. My lab plays like, well, a lab! and my cocker doesn't play at all but runs happily behind/in front of the crowd barking his head off. But he doesn't like to engage in actual "play".

You've done nothing wrong. They didn't handle it right. If they just threw her into a group of more than 2, I'd think she just got overexcted. That's what the "daycare" part is for. To separate the roughhousers until they settle down, then back to play.

Sophie45 · 03-21-2007, 06:59 PM

Thanks guys, I feel a lot better. Yeah, they basically took her outside with six other dogs that she didn't know and wanted her to play with them. They don't separate at all.
I am now thinking a bit more rationally, and I can kind of understand why she went a little crazy-she was temperament tested there, which was an hour with their two dogs and me there, and that's it. I think since Sophie has no attachment to them whatsoever, and I left, she went crazy! She went with my trainer for a weekend, who said she did great, because she had structure, and a human to look to. This is very unstructured-all of the dogs go and play in their huge fenced in backyard, or can rest in the "doggie porch". I have an appointment with the trainer tomorrow afternoon to "evaluate".
Thanks guys!

Kona · 03-22-2007, 08:40 PM

Geez, how frustrating. The good news here is that you found out right away how incompetent and ignorant they are. Another way to interpret what they told you was "We don't know how to control an exuberant 9-month-old puppy." I used to run a day-care where I had up to 35 dogs playing nicely together. These were dogs of all breeds and ages. Of course I evaluated their temperaments first, because I don't want to put any dog into a situation that she's not ready for, but once she passed that test it was MY responsibility to keep them all happy and well-behaved.

Oh well, hopefully the training will go well and you'll find a better day-care facility.

Oh, btw, it's not true that spaying a female will cause her to become more aggressive, and it's also not true that a dog's "true" personality comes out at nine months. Just more proof that those knuckleheads didn't know what they were talking about.

Sophie45 · 03-24-2007, 08:23 PM

Thank you, Kona! We have started working with a very reputable trainer who was trained at the National K9 Academy and has loads of experience. She really opened up my eyes to a lot of things on how to gain confidence in my dog and become the leader, and I am working on learning how to "speak dog". In two days, I have already noticed a difference!
And my trainer told me it is nonsense that dogs become more aggressive after spaying, too, which makes me feel better.
She did get temperament tested there (with me there), and they said she was "wonderful" and would be a welcome addition anytime, any day. Well, that lasted two hours.....

03-20-2007, 08:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
Sophie45 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 341 Rep Power: 67	BAD first (and only) day at doggie daycare... I took Sophie about a month ago to get temperament tested (with me there of course) at a local doggie daycare, and did BEAUTIFULLY. I have been extremely adament to socialize her with a LOT of other dogs-big, small, young, old, etc., and she has always been great, and on the submissive side. Two weeks ago, Sophie got spayed, stitches out last Fri. I had a crazy planned day today, so decided to send her to doggie daycare for the first time for a half day for some socialization and exercise. I get a call two hours later saying I have to pick her up because she was playing aggressively with the other dogs (not hurting them or any fights, but being rough, rude and pushy-too much for the other dogs and was being very persistent!) and would not listen to any command from them. She experienced severe separation anxiety, has very little confidence and was very overwhelmed, and got very bad diarhhea. (which is common for her when she gets excited or stimulated or has a lot of exercise) I had to miss a very important meeting to go pick her up. The owner told me that I really needed to look into serious obedience training immediately (we've done some private sessions with a trainer and puppy kindergarten) and told me she has seen a lot of females become more aggressive after spaying (which I was a bit concerned about, hence my post a week or so ago...) and at her age, 9 mos. "true personality comes out" (is that true?!?!?!? I thought I knew my dog pretty well that I got as a 9 wk puppy, obviously taking into consideration growth and development, but she has maintained the same overall personality!) We are signed up to start intermediate training next week, but I think I am going to amp it up a bit-before this becomes a big problem. I e mailed two of the best known trainers in my area, and want to get started on a regiment ASAP with one on one and then a class setting. Guess this post was just to kinda rant and whine, I guess, but ANY tips or thoughts are always appreciated...kind of feeling like I failed to raise a confident dog right now...

03-21-2007, 02:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Rivsky* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Australia Posts: 3,869 Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 145	I agree with everything said above. I'd check out another day care place (mine actually video taped River on his first day so I could see and judge for myself that he was having a good time and wasn't stressed or anything). Also if you do go somewhere else find out what their rules are for socialising dogs - mine is no more than three dogs playing together at a time and there's a also a limit on the number of dogs allowed to go on any given day dependent on how many people there are to supervise.
	__________________ As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

03-21-2007, 06:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
IceyBlueSibes Eyes = Mirror to the soul Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jupiter, Fla. Posts: 7,831 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 276	I have to agree with rottielvr. The doggie day care that I work at will not send a dog home based on its behavior. We actually suggest doing a "trial day" for new dogs coming in. This is 5 hours of free day care. We evaluate the dog on how well they do with the other dogs, and determine whether the owner should bring her back (we let them decide), or if she would rather her be kenneled. A lot of times, the dogs are EXTREMELY nervous on their first time there, but we take this into consideration. This is completely different for them. They eventually warm up after a few more visits. There is another day care not far from us, who is EXTREMELY strict, and sounds a lot like what happened at your day care. They don't allow barking, they don't allow rude/pushy dogs, they don't allow rough play, and they don't allow certain breeds to play after 6 months of age. The personalities that range at my work can be anywhere from very reserved dogs, to in your face throw the stinkin' ball! We have quite a few "brats" and we will only allow them to play supervised and if they become too rowdy, we put them in a room for a time out. A few of the dogs we get are from the other day care, because they were "kicked out". I agree with the others and suggest finding another day care facility in your area. I would think that they would have taken into consideration this was her very first day there, and they should remember that not ALL the dogs will get a long with eachother. Just like people, there are certain individuals the dogs will just not mesh with (whether that's being aggressive towards them, scared, pushy, etc). Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. If you lived in my area, I'd invite you to come to my work!
	__________________ Sheiba, Denali, Ike, Nitro (Siberian Husky), Kelso (GSD x), Lugar (Boxer/Pit x), Willah (Shepherd/Husky x), Tibby, Cheech, Chong (Chihuahua), and any foster we have in the house! 9 Kitty cats!

03-21-2007, 06:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
WolfRyder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 259 Rep Power: 61	If your dog hasn't play a lot with other dogs, she may not know quite how to go about it. I know Bobbie started being more "pushy" around 9 months, but through telling her to stop or knock it off, she's gotten over it. Plus I've notice different dogs play in different ways. My lab plays like, well, a lab! and my cocker doesn't play at all but runs happily behind/in front of the crowd barking his head off. But he doesn't like to engage in actual "play". You've done nothing wrong. They didn't handle it right. If they just threw her into a group of more than 2, I'd think she just got overexcted. That's what the "daycare" part is for. To separate the roughhousers until they settle down, then back to play.
	__________________ Ripley & Bobbie Lab/BC mix & Lab/Vizsla/BC mix

03-22-2007, 08:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
Kona Owned by a Rotty Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 58 Rep Power: 52	Geez, how frustrating. The good news here is that you found out right away how incompetent and ignorant they are. Another way to interpret what they told you was "We don't know how to control an exuberant 9-month-old puppy." I used to run a day-care where I had up to 35 dogs playing nicely together. These were dogs of all breeds and ages. Of course I evaluated their temperaments first, because I don't want to put any dog into a situation that she's not ready for, but once she passed that test it was MY responsibility to keep them all happy and well-behaved. Oh well, hopefully the training will go well and you'll find a better day-care facility. Oh, btw, it's not true that spaying a female will cause her to become more aggressive, and it's also not true that a dog's "true" personality comes out at nine months. Just more proof that those knuckleheads didn't know what they were talking about.
	__________________

03-20-2007, 09:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rottielvr18 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: PA Posts: 117 Rep Power: 59	Sophie45, it is common for dogs to feel out of their element when its the first time by themselves away from mom or dad. I work at a boarding kennel that also has doggie day care & let me tell you, we have never (knock on wood) sent a doggie home yet! If a dog acts out we simply put them back in the pen or away from the other dogs, till their parents come back. Did you ever ask how many dogs sophie was put with, age range,activity level, or mixed group she "played" with? This could make a huge impact on her sociablitly with others. The puppies we get in (generally ageing from 4-9 months) arnt as out going as others would think a puppy should be. Exspceially if the puppy is for the first time out of her element. You have in NO way failed at raising a confident puppy... dont fret!! I have seen plenty of pups re-act way differntly around others because their simply to over whelmed. Sophie probably does fine when she feels comfortable. Any dog group can play well as long as activtly level & compatibilty are the same.

03-21-2007, 11:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
Beryl Latte, Boo, & Phoxx's Mom Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,159 Rep Power: 92	My dogs frequent doggie day cares and I agree w/Rottie above. If a dog has a behavior problem, most kennels will crate the dog and inform the owner of the problem when they come for pickup. It is true that dogs act VERY differently when mom and dad are away. They are no different from children -- trust me. I can't tell you how many "angels" become instantly possessed when they get into a classroom. They can become aggressive or even shy when parents leave. My min pin is only aggressive when I am around. We've concluded that he is trying to "protect" me. I'm not sure if your day care permits it but my preferred day care has a fenced play area outside which allowed me to observe my dog. They also allow one free courtesy day where my dog was allowed to be there at no charge. I used that free day to observe him and then leave after an hour or so. Have you looked into another day care?

03-21-2007, 06:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sophie45 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 341 Rep Power: 67	Thanks guys, I feel a lot better. Yeah, they basically took her outside with six other dogs that she didn't know and wanted her to play with them. They don't separate at all. I am now thinking a bit more rationally, and I can kind of understand why she went a little crazy-she was temperament tested there, which was an hour with their two dogs and me there, and that's it. I think since Sophie has no attachment to them whatsoever, and I left, she went crazy! She went with my trainer for a weekend, who said she did great, because she had structure, and a human to look to. This is very unstructured-all of the dogs go and play in their huge fenced in backyard, or can rest in the "doggie porch". I have an appointment with the trainer tomorrow afternoon to "evaluate". Thanks guys!

03-24-2007, 08:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sophie45 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 341 Rep Power: 67	Thank you, Kona! We have started working with a very reputable trainer who was trained at the National K9 Academy and has loads of experience. She really opened up my eyes to a lot of things on how to gain confidence in my dog and become the leader, and I am working on learning how to "speak dog". In two days, I have already noticed a difference! And my trainer told me it is nonsense that dogs become more aggressive after spaying, too, which makes me feel better. She did get temperament tested there (with me there), and they said she was "wonderful" and would be a welcome addition anytime, any day. Well, that lasted two hours.....

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