British dog expert says dogs that misbehave are smarter than obedient dogs

theGOOCH · 01-12-2005, 09:45 AM

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,...1a4560,00.html

Not sure I agree, but I think a naughty dog CAN be intelligent

***Carrie*** · 01-12-2005, 10:31 AM

That's interesting. I wish there were more. She's wonderful!

sheltiepups · 01-12-2005, 12:11 PM

hmm I don't agree with it a 100% but its pretty right.

flyndog · 01-12-2005, 12:28 PM

I agree with this part: "Other advice includes: "Never work with a dog without any food or water."

You have to wonder about who wrote that story.

I'm sure Jan had better gems of knowledge to offer than that! Not that food and water aren't important, of course.

Kit

BellFounder · 01-12-2005, 12:47 PM

I think there's two halves to the tale. A dog like a border terrier while undeniably smart is **** difficult to train to behave because they are so bloomin stubborn and independant. A dog like a collie however is just as smart if not more so but much more likely to behave because they LIKE doing as they are told, they are bred to take orders, they have to be for the job they perform.

***Carrie*** · 01-12-2005, 01:48 PM

I don't think there are any "stubborn" dogs. But I do think there are a lot of bad trainers.

One has to find what motivates their dog to want to learn and comply. Not all dogs like the same thing or work under the same attitude or for the same bag of tricks.

For instance, I'll talk about two of my four dogs, the two I've worked with the most. My Lab is fairly independent and not AS sensative as my Dobe. She has always been very willing to do anything I can teach her. She has a large range of tolerance to many things in life. So, it hasn't been too important what bag of tricks I would use. Anything goes. LOL.

My Dobe, on the other hand is very dependent, high pack drive, high prey drive too...extremely sensative and extremely bright. He thrives on learning new things....hungers for it. BUT, he's very distractable and he many times wants to do things HIS way and can be pushy. The harder I push, the harder he pushes back. He does not do well with extreme compulsive methods. Jerking, pulling, pushing, shoving gets me nowhere. Too much tough stuff and harshnes would make him shrink and would break his spirit. I won't do that to any animal. You might call him stubborn.

However, if I choose another bag of tricks besides those, he's wonderful. If I find what MOTIVATES him, what floats his boat, he is all ears. A trainer has to use his imagination and be creative and flexible. This dog has to be tricked into thinking that it was his idea in many instances. He loves training time and is most compliant.

I had the same deal with the last two mares I had. One was very much like Bonnie, super willing, anything goes. The other was like Lyric...more flighty, brilliant and always thinking how she could get around things and get her own way. It took me a while to figure out how to match my training methods to her personality. I couldn't barge through 1/2 ton of muscle by being tough. I had to find her motivator...what she liked best and how she learned things best, what kind of attitude I should use to match her receptiveness.

01-12-2005, 09:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
theGOOCH Doberman Pinscher Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH USA Posts: 754 Rep Power: 99	British dog expert says dogs that misbehave are smarter than obedient dogs http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,...1a4560,00.html Not sure I agree, but I think a naughty dog CAN be intelligent

01-12-2005, 12:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
sheltiepups Semper Fidelis - Marines Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: somewhere Posts: 2,438 Rep Power: 132	hmm I don't agree with it a 100% but its pretty right.
	__________________ Breezy & her shelties Thank you Dawn, for a wonderful siggy :) 2cutepups

01-12-2005, 12:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 185	I agree with this part: "Other advice includes: "Never work with a dog without any food or water." You have to wonder about who wrote that story. I'm sure Jan had better gems of knowledge to offer than that! Not that food and water aren't important, of course. Kit
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

01-12-2005, 12:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
BellFounder Collie girl Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 399 Rep Power: 83	I think there's two halves to the tale. A dog like a border terrier while undeniably smart is **** difficult to train to behave because they are so bloomin stubborn and independant. A dog like a collie however is just as smart if not more so but much more likely to behave because they LIKE doing as they are told, they are bred to take orders, they have to be for the job they perform.
	Last edited by fireworksinjuly : 01-12-2005 at 02:53 PM.

01-12-2005, 10:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,551 Rep Power: 292	That's interesting. I wish there were more. She's wonderful!

01-12-2005, 01:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,551 Rep Power: 292	I don't think there are any "stubborn" dogs. But I do think there are a lot of bad trainers. One has to find what motivates their dog to want to learn and comply. Not all dogs like the same thing or work under the same attitude or for the same bag of tricks. For instance, I'll talk about two of my four dogs, the two I've worked with the most. My Lab is fairly independent and not AS sensative as my Dobe. She has always been very willing to do anything I can teach her. She has a large range of tolerance to many things in life. So, it hasn't been too important what bag of tricks I would use. Anything goes. LOL. My Dobe, on the other hand is very dependent, high pack drive, high prey drive too...extremely sensative and extremely bright. He thrives on learning new things....hungers for it. BUT, he's very distractable and he many times wants to do things HIS way and can be pushy. The harder I push, the harder he pushes back. He does not do well with extreme compulsive methods. Jerking, pulling, pushing, shoving gets me nowhere. Too much tough stuff and harshnes would make him shrink and would break his spirit. I won't do that to any animal. You might call him stubborn. However, if I choose another bag of tricks besides those, he's wonderful. If I find what MOTIVATES him, what floats his boat, he is all ears. A trainer has to use his imagination and be creative and flexible. This dog has to be tricked into thinking that it was his idea in many instances. He loves training time and is most compliant. I had the same deal with the last two mares I had. One was very much like Bonnie, super willing, anything goes. The other was like Lyric...more flighty, brilliant and always thinking how she could get around things and get her own way. It took me a while to figure out how to match my training methods to her personality. I couldn't barge through 1/2 ton of muscle by being tough. I had to find her motivator...what she liked best and how she learned things best, what kind of attitude I should use to match her receptiveness.

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