Shilo our 1 1/2 year old terrorizing our 3 cats

[bosoxx]

Hello everyone. I am brand new to the forum and i wanted to toss out a question. Wife and i bought a new house, and too the new house came our 3 cats..ages: 2, 3 and 6. This saturday we decided to adopt a dog at our local shelter and we fell in love with this 1 1/2 year old Red Tick Coondog named Shilo. We were told she is good with children and cats (after properly introduced, whatever that means)? She passed test #1 with our 3 year old nephew but she is terrorizing our 3 cats and for some reason, they refuse to stand up for themselves unless we are right there and scold Shilo. I've been loud and consistent with her about chasing the cats and i refuse to hit her. She squats down and appears to understand but then a cat will come around the corner again and off she goes chasing it till it can escape. I realize it's only been a few days. I knew that with a Coondog there is the natural instinct to chase like most hunting dogs but even our displeasure and scolding doesn't seem to help. There are some signs that the cats are warming up to her as they are now exploring a bit more and coming up on the bed at night. (they stayed hidden in closets and under the bed for the first two days).
i think they eventually will all get along, but i'm afraid Shilo might accidently hurt a cat. My family have told me she just wants to play and eventually their exsistence won't concern the dog as much. Right now things are exciting and new for her and that may change when she grows accustomed to her new surroundings a bit more.
We want the cats to have access to their litterbox and food & water without Shilo chasing them away into hiding. For now, i take Shilo out to do her business and my wife brings the cats out to the kitchen to make sure they can get to their things. Then i bring her inside and they scatter when they see her.

One idea i got was to train Shilo with her retractable leash for a awhile so when she sees a cat she can't dart after it. Right now she's too quick and she gets away from me the second she sees a cat. By the time i scold her for being bad she's already committed the act. I try to get her before she bolts, but that instinct takes over and she's off and running.

Ever see cats trying to escape a 30 lb dog while running on linoleum floors? Not a pretty picture Jakob our youngest cat skidded across the floor and bumped into the cabinets trying to make a hasty exit.

But seriously, any assistance would be appreciated. I've read so many stories where the Cats are usually the aggressor so this is strange to me. My cats could care less about her, other than her not bothering them. One other thing. When i walk Shilo we have dogs all around us. They bark and howl at her and she pays them absolutely NO attention at all. You'd think she'd dart to the fence after the dog, but she continues to do her business, play in the snow and ignore the 6 dogs barking at her from all sides. Her only concern is her rawhide bones, her Pig Ear snacks and our 3 cats. Sigh.

Thanks!
-Keith

[Carrie]

Does she look like she will hurt the cats? Is she acting at all aggressive or is this just curiosity? I think in time, she'll get use to them and they won't be so novel to her.

Scolding her will probably just draw more attention to the cats and make her associate them with a negative, rotten time and make her want to get them all the more.

You can go around this by taking her to obedience class with a reputable, positive trainer (no jerking, harsh stuff) and learn how to train. Give her a job to do, something to fill her mind...in other words. Also make sure she gets a good run, plenty of exercise. A dog like that needs lots and lots of exercise.

At home, take her outside on her leash (NOT a retractable....no good for training...teaches dog to pull against you) and work on some basic obedience, walking nicely on a loose lead, sit, stay and......."leave it." Take some enticing toys, food, whatever and place them around the yard in several places. Walk her past them and when she goes for them, keep walking, and say, "leave it." When she stops straining to get the thing, praise her lavishly and give her a tid bit of a special treat. (not just a crummy dog biscuit, but a real treat, something better than the enticing things/food in the yard. Use cheese, homemade liver treats....steak) Make it worth her while to "leave it" when you say. At first she won't understand the words. But she will if you practice this several times a day for short sessions.....5-10 minutes at a time. Then you can put her on a leash in the house and when a cat walks by and she starts to go for it, tell her, "leave it" in a firm, but not loud voice. Distract her with something. If she does leave the cat alone, DON'T FORGET TO PRAISE HER AND TREAT....RIGHT AWAY AND IN A BIG WAY. Learning that command is good for all kinds of things. And that combined with just getting use to them should help. Do use positive methods, emphasise positive reinforcement rather than punishment or negativity. Show her what you do want more than showing her what you don't want. Don't forget to praise and reward. If you don't lavish that on, she won't learn anything. It has to be worth her while. But be careful not to praise at the wrong time. It has to be when she stops bugging the cats. Watch that you don't inadvertantly reward her for undesireable behavior.

If you don't have her on a leash, you can't control her around the cats. If she starts to make a move toward them, all you can do is try and distract her. You don't want to use a treat because that will seem like you're rewarding her for chasing the cats. If you can't enforce a command, like "leave it" then don't say it. Never tell your dog anything that you can't enforce. Distract and then if she leaves the cats, reward. Every time that she gets to chase the cats and gets close to them, that is a self fulfilled reward. She's being rewarded and reinforcing that behavior. So, you may have to be very involved for a couple of weeks with a leash and supervision.

Good luck.

[bosoxx]

Thanks Carrie... It doesn't appear she wants to hurt the cats, just chase them. She isn't growling, snarling or barking at them and they are fast enough to escape so she's never cornered one and forced them to defend themselves. Anyone i talk to says the same thing as you did. It's a novilty and soon enough it will wear off. Once Shilo accepts the fact that the cats are here to stay. And i'm sure the more she sees them, the more accustomed to them she'll become. It's just now she doesn't see much of them

Thanks!
-Keith

[Carrie]

Well, good then that she isn't aggressive, but that prey drive....you just never can be sure what might happen. I would still put some training into her. It helps you to be looked at as the respected leader, if it's done in a happy, positive way. But you're calling the shots and she will respect you more and your wishes. That in itself is a must for a good dog/human relationship, not to mention the direct benefits of training. Good luck.

[bosoxx]

[bosoxx]

That's great advice Carrie... Shilo is very attentive to commands when outside and when she's not involved with the cats. If we are outside and she's straying too far, i'll call her name and whistle and she'll spin around and come back to me. Sometimes she'll grab one of my slippers and i'll come after her to get it back and she'll think i'm playing. After a firm "Drop It", she'll drop the slipper and back away. But at 1 1/2 years old i'm trying to be patient because she's very active and playful and i love that about her. I didn't want a lazy dog that slept all the time and ignored me. Thankfully, i don't have that. But the cats...they are my wife's babies. The thought of months and months of terrified cats scares her. I would never adopt a dog and give up on it. It was something i always wanted as a boy and never had. Now i feel priviledged that i can not only potentially save the life of a living thing but make our home much happier. In my heart i'm sure things will work out, but each day i worry i'm wrong.

One really positive sign was last night. The cats are slowly warming to her more and becoming more visible. Jakob was always used to sleeping on the bed with my wife every night and when Shilo came, she refused. She sat on the dresser and whined. Last night she hopped over to the bed (With Shilo sleeping on it), sniffed her and moved over to my wife's side and slept next to her. So at least a cat is excepting Shilo. I guess that's a positive step.

Thanks!
-Keith

[flyndog]

Just thought I'd add, to give your wife and her cats some peace of mind while everybody is getting used to each other, some people have luck with setting up a temporary "dog-free zone" for the cats.
Kit

[Barrett]

We have a dog free zone for our two cats. We use baby gates for the hallway and kitchen. The cats can jump over the gate and get to the food and litter boxes but the dogs can't. This helps keep the dogs out of the cat box for a snack too. We put cat ledges in all the windows in the dog free zone so the cats can look out and sun themselves. It works out fine. My 1 1/2 year dachshund will chase the cats and bug them all day long so they need a place to get away. The cats have the whole back of the house and bedrooms and the dogs are only allowed in the two living rooms and dining room. We also bought a 7 foot cat tree for the tv room so the cats can get up high and still be with the family.

[Carrie]

It sounds like everything will work out. And mostly because you want it to. The cat getting on the bed with the dog is a good sign. I think the more they're exposed to and hanging around eachother, the more normal they'll seem to eachother. It might take a while for the dog, who is still young, to not want to play with them. But it's good if the cats get unafraid. That reduces the dog's prey drive for, and interest in those cats. As long as they're not being terrorized and nobody is going to get hurt, I'd let them be together, but supervised. If they're seperated, they may never get use to eachother...always will be this big novelty. But you need to be careful.

I had 5 cats over the years with my dogs. One dog was not a pup when I got my first cat. He was a GSD about 5 years old and death on cats, very, very aggressive, (well, maybe not aggressive in the true sense...more like on the hunt perhaps) almost killed a neighbors once. I had to be very careful and train him to be nice. It took a couple of weeks and absolutely couldn't let him free around the cat. When it did become apparent that he was safe, I let them be together under supervision to get more habituated to eachother. Finally they became good buds. LOL.

My Dobe puppy terrorized my Chihuahuas when I first had him...for months. He wanted to play and play rough. Well, a Chihuahua is no match for a Doberman puppy. It took extreme caution and management. Now he knows how to play gently, as you can see in my pictures of him mouthing the little Chi. I could have kept them in seperate areas and not have to be on him all the time, but I think he'd never learn how to interact safely with them if I did that. (Well, I guess with a baby gate where they can see eachother in the case of cats that would help.) Anyway, I would bend down and pat the Chi's and say in a whispery voice, "Lyric....g-e-n-t-l-e." And pat them ever so lightly. And you know...he picked up on that. He's careful when he is running around and if somehow something happens where he may run into them, he will do everything in his power to jump over, around, trip over something else so that he doesn't step on them. He's very, very careful. So, they do learn.

[ayl]

All it take is time My cat came into our family when she was about 1 or 2 months old ( not sure, I found her on the street ) nearly 5 years ago. At that time I have 2 adult dogs, one show no interest to her, the other one kept bothering her, at such a young age, she already know how to defense herself and taught that naughty dog a lesson. Then the 2 dogs passed away, and no dogs in our house for a year, the cat became a queen. 2 and a half years ago we have our Aussie shepherd. Boy, talk about try to stop him chase any moving oject :shiver: The cat really taught him some good lessons, and now he can tell the difference between family cat and the stray cat. Still, once a while he will chase our cat and get scold by us. Our goldern which came to our family 1 and half years ago, never bother our cat, although he did sometimes chase the stray cat. I never kept them seperate, they share the house, garden even the kennel.

[sunny98]

I agree totally with the dog free zone. I used to do this with my animals. The cats knew they had a safe place to go and relax for some piece and quiet. The only problem came when Sunny figured she could jump the gate to get where she wanted to go. I allviated this problem by doublling up the gates, one on top of the other. It worked out pretty good. Now Sunny will still chase one of my cats but only if she runs otherwise Sunny justs sniffs her and walks away. I am sure once your new pup gets use to these fun furry things that run, they will all get along fine. Keep us posted.
Erin, Sunny and the gang

[Carrie]

Love that picture of your cat and dog. I have one something like that too. My latest cat didn't run away much. That is the smartest thing for a cat to do, not run. And some do and some don't. I had a cat who guarded my barn from neighbor dogs. He'd stand in front of the big doors like a soccar goaly and would be very threatening to dogs who tried to pass. They soon gave up trying to go in the barn. LOL.

Yes, if the cat is constantly being terrorized....it needs a place to go when it wants to relax and not have to worry. It's only fair.

[bosoxx]

It's now gone an official week. (Not that it's really been a long time yet), and Shilo is still chasing the cats around. On the positive side, the cats have become more visable and they are getting around eating and using their litterboxes.

The main problem is that Shilo still views herself as Queen of the Castle. If a cat roams, she chases. Verbal messages don't seem to halt her activities. If a cat comes on the dresser near the bed, she growls at it.

Last night two cats tried to get on the bed and snuggle with my wife (they always have) and Shilo caught them and chased them off the bed into their hiding spots. What's the best way to discipline her "After" the act has already been committed? Last night it happened at 4am and by the time we realized what was going on, she was already back in bed and the cats were gone. I've never, ever been a serious cat person. My wife adores her 3 cats. To me, they just poop, eat and meow. Not that i dislike them, but they "are just there" to me. I've always loved and wanted a dog. She has always been the one to spend the quality time with our cats, play with them, feed them, etc. If one came and sat on my lap (which was rare), i'd pay attention to them. But my wife has always spoiled them and now they are HER babies.
So this when Shilo starts terrorizing her babies, it makes her unhappy. How long does it usually take for a dog to tire of the everyday chasing of cats? The cats don't bother her. Only Sugar, our oldest has come out to the point of actually sitting on chairs in front of Shilo. The other two go no farther than my wife's craft room.

I'm still waiting for that magic day Shilo gets too close and gets Cat Swiped in the nose and all this is just a memory. But she's smart enough to get only so close and not in range for a paw swipe. I think until that day she's just going to keep pushing and pushing.

-Keith

[elegy]

Originally Posted by bosoxx

The main problem is that Shilo still views herself as Queen of the Castle. If a cat roams, she chases. Verbal messages don't seem to halt her activities. If a cat comes on the dresser near the bed, she growls at it.

does she see herself as queen of the castle or does she see the cats as playthings? if it really is a "queen of the castle" thing, then i suggest you put her on a strict program of Nothing In Life Is Free. (google "NILIF" and you'll find a bunch of info) She is NOT the boss. She does NOT make the rules. YOU are the human. YOU get to decide what goes.

Last night two cats tried to get on the bed and snuggle with my wife (they always have) and Shilo caught them and chased them off the bed into their hiding spots. What's the best way to discipline her "After" the act has already been committed? Last night it happened at 4am and by the time we realized what was going on, she was already back in bed and the cats were gone.

plain and simple, you can't discipline after the fact. the dog will not associate your punishment with cat chasing, she will associate it with whatever her most recent behavior was.

how much exercise is shiloh getting? dogs who don't get enough exercise find ways to amuse themselves.

if this were my dog, i'd closely supervise the dog at all times, either by babygating or tethering. everytime the dog started to get that "look" about a cat, i'd correct it, redirect it, and praise/treat when she successfully redirected. i would tether or crate at night so that she does not have the option of cat chasing.

my newest dog, mushroom, is a cat-chaser. he's no longer tethered/gated while i'm awake, but he's crated when i'm not home and tethered when i'm sleeping. his cat chasing has dropped to maybe 20% of what it was 5 weeks ago when he got here.

good luck!

[bosoxx]

Shilo gets quite a bit of running around activity each day and she has plenty of toys to keep herself amused. I really think that the cats are playthings to her. They are just something else to amuse her. She's really well behaved other than the cats. She doesn't beg for food and she's not at all destructive around the house. She does her business outside and has only had a few accidents in the house overnight when we were sleeping. Other than her cat chasing issues, she's been a model addition to the family.

I've had many people tell me about getting her attention diverted when she goes to chase a cat, but the problem is it's already too late. She sees a cat before we even notice the cat is roaming. Sometimes, it's the sound of a cat in a litterbox, or jumping off the counter. Things we might not even notice. I'll watch her ears go up and she'll listen. Then *poof* she's off and running and you can hear her running and a cat scampering to safety. My wife is more concerned that a cat will get caught off guard and hurt itself while trying to get away. One of our cats, Cookie, which i fondly call "The Cow Cat" for obvious reasons, has a hard time jumping up to safety so he has to duck behind things. If Shilo knows the cat is present and in the room, she'll chase it around a couch until it gets somewhere she can't get at it. Then there is usually a little hissing/growling session and Shilo leaves to go eat a bone or play with a squeeky toy.
The cats aren't going out of their way to find her and she really doesn't go looking for them...but if she sees one....

I'm wondering if tying her up inside or putting her on her leash and having the wife bring the cats out and so she can see...but not chase will help at all? I can't leave her in the basement when we go out because it's -10 below here in New York and that wouldn't really solve anything. It would give the cats some hours of peace and quiet, but when we got home it would be Nascar again. Caging her is an idea, but i'm worried how she'll reacte to being caged when she's been out this last week. Maybe being containted with the cats about and having no way to get at them will break her..or maybe it won't?

-Keith