Boston marking apartment!!

WingedFoal · 01-30-2005, 07:59 PM

Okay We've had this problem for a while but it seems to only get worse no matter what I do, and I'm at the end of the rope here.

Before Tasmo hit "puppy puberty" he was COMPLETELY housetrained and would rather jump off a cliff than use the bathroom in the apartment. He is still like that in many aspects. Lately, though, he has been marking his territory ALL in the apartment! I don't have a single clue what to do. I've tried everything. I have kenneled him when I couldn't keep my eyes on him, tied him to me and led him everywhere with me, given him more attention, ignored it but cleaned it, etc., but he will even do it in front of me and then try his best to hide!

I don't understand this because he has always been the type dog to try to make his human completely happy in any way, not to mention he's smart as a whip. When I first figured out what he was doing, I noticed he'd run like the devil and hide under the deepest darkest corner of the bed. When I'd look around I'd find an object, furniture, or a wall with urine on it. It started before we got any other dogs, and nothing had changed. He is let outside to potty very often and never has accidents in his kennel at night when he stays in it (which is a lot lately, with this problem).

I've housetrained many dogs, but he has me completely stumped. My new little one (Bitty) has already caught on and rarely has an accident now.

Any ideas or suggestions about Tasmo?

***Carrie*** · 01-30-2005, 10:41 PM

http://www.dog-pictures.co.uk/dog-ca...-is-free.shtml

Read that site. Your dog is showing you that he owns the place, not you. Do the things they talk about in this program and start a regiment of obedience training. You mention giving your dog all kinds of attention. Maybe you're going overboard. Give him attention, yes...but when you choose to, not when he demands anything.

I would tell my dog "NO!" if I saw him lift his leg in my house. There's no question about that. I'm very pro positive training methods. But there are times where you have to stop something now. But saying, "no" alone isn't going to last or be enough. You need to read that site up there.

Here's another good library of information about dogs and training:

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/dog.htm

Someone else may well come along and have some good tips. This is to get you started.

WingedFoal · 01-31-2005, 08:29 AM

Thanks, I'm going to try that. I'm guessing that I had been too lenient when the problem started. But nothing works on him, so maybe this will. I did tell him "no" about it the times I was able to catch him. He is a great dog in all other ways. I tell him to sit, he sits. Same thing with lay and stay.

***Carrie*** · 01-31-2005, 08:42 AM

Well, good...let us know, will you, how things go, if he improves. Good luck to you! That would be awful if that continues. Grrrrrr.

flyndog · 01-31-2005, 02:57 PM

How long has this been going on? I'm surprised that he will still urinate while on an umbilical leash to you. How does he do that if you're paying attention to him? I'm of the opinion that marking is just another form of not being housetrained and you need to start at square one again. Here's my 2 cents: If you are free feeding him, put him on a 2 or 3 meal schedule. Take him outside regularly (after meals and after play) and reward him immediately for peeing outside. I'd continue to keep him tethered to me, not walk by anything he perceives as a "pee post", and watch him for sniffing behavior that suggests he has to go outside.
Kit

WingedFoal · 01-31-2005, 03:22 PM

He has been completely housetrained. he was when he was four months old. He is a year and four months old now. He started this a few of months ago and it has just gotten worse. I've started housetraining him all over again, but it's almost like he thinks his marking has nothing to do with actual peeing. He has even marked four people I know (one being me). He has done it in front of me a few times on a wall corner or the couch (blehhh) but lately he sneaks off to do it, which is why I haven't been giving him the chance to get offleash. He KNOWS he's not supposed to do it too. Which makes it even more difficult for me. If he didn't know it was wrong, it would be easy to train him since he is a very trainable dog. I would be able to see the lightbulb go on in his head. But since he obviously knows it's wrong (trying to hide after doing it) then I don't know how to get through to him that it's UNNACCEPTABLE.

Tasmo does not drink an excessive amount of water, and is very healthy. I feed my dogs two times a day and take them out every hour and a half, except at night, when they usually stay in their crates. If one is whining really bad at night I take them out. Tasmo always pees and poops outside and hasn't had a "real" accident since a long time ago. I swear this marking he just does not understand is bad, he doesn't soak things like he actually had to pee. He just "marks" which still smells just as bad and not anywhere near acceptable. I just don't know what to do with him.

flyndog · 01-31-2005, 03:53 PM

I see. There's more to the story! Thank you. Then I would agree with Carrie that in this case, you initiate NILIF and increase obedience training. BTW, I assume you have you used an *enzyme* based cleaner on the urine marks, that the dog is un-neutered, the behavior started before you got the new dog or has not increased since you got the new dog. How old and what is Bitty?

WingedFoal · 01-31-2005, 04:15 PM

Sorry for not elaborating further earlier. Bitty is a female Boston. She is only four months old. He started marking before I got any other new animals. I have used every kind of enzyme cleaner possible, even steam cleaned the carpets a few times, but he does not have a favorite place to mark. He is random. He is not neutered, he is very obedient, and as I said, easy to train, so this has got me stumped.

I do not let him outside anymore without being on a leash. He is under strict supervision now when out of the kennel.

flyndog · 01-31-2005, 04:30 PM

Curious, did the marking start about the time the kid started throwing rocks?
I see Bitty! She's adorable!!!

elegy · 01-31-2005, 06:01 PM

do you have a reason for not neutering him? neutering would be a step in the right direction as far as stopping the marking.

***Carrie*** · 01-31-2005, 06:35 PM

Marking is different than just having to go pee. My two boys mark and so does my female Lab occasionally. They do it on very particular things, like bushes where others have been, trees, snow banks etc. They are not allowed to do it on sides of buildings or any other stuff owned by humans, tires, etc. They do not empty their bladders usually at one time as they would if they just have to pee. They have a purpose. And when they are doing it on your stuff, they need to be told, "NO!!!" They cannot be allowed to do such a thing on a person!

As much as I promote and utilize positive reinforcement in training, that is one thing that I wouldn't go for. I'd probably flip out and scream at my dog. I think my dogs already figure that so they never tried it.

Yes indeed, you better start showing that dog who pays the mortgage and all the bills. But in a nice, round about way of course. (as described in the NILIF program) and some beefed up obedience training....every day a little bit. And watch him like a hawk.

Even if he's not neutered, he can still learn his manners. Neutering helps, but only when it's done before puberty sets in. (for the most part) Sometimes that doesn't even help too terribly much. Like I said, my girl Lab does it a little. And my boys were neutered at 6 or 7 months and they do it, maybe not as excessively as an intact male.

WingedFoal · 01-31-2005, 06:45 PM

Thanks. Yeah, he was supposed to be a show dog, but my husband is gone again to Kuwait so right now I'm holding off on trying to get him shown until I can get the help I need and move back to Birmingham. Well it's pretty much on hold anyway until I can get Tasmo's problems straightened back out.

Thank you flyndog, I think she's adorable too! I fell in love with her the moment she pounced on me and attacked me, then left a lovely smelly present on the floor right in front of me. So she ended up going home with me.

***Carrie*** · 01-31-2005, 06:52 PM

Are those yours on your avatar? What a cute picture! I love Bostons.

WingedFoal · 01-31-2005, 07:25 PM

Yep all of them are mine, even the cockatiel, Mickey B, and chinchilla, Icarus. And that's just the beginning, and when I get a house (soon) then there's probably going to be more.

Bitty is the one on the left on the avatar. She's madly in love with Tasmo (as you can see her kissing him). If there's a way to be beside him, she's there. Tasmo loves her too, but I don't think it's as extreme....

Oh and I've had my baby Phillip, Mickey, and Icarus long before I got Tasmo. Well, Phillip was only 5 months old then. But he did come before Tasmo. I don't think much has changed to cause Taz any disturbances, but I guess in his eyes he sees it a bit differently.

sthrnbelle · 01-31-2005, 09:31 PM

Another Boston lover!

You have sweet-looking Bostons...you can see mine in my avatar and signature.

Sorry I don't have any advice on the marking, but it sounds like the others have pointed you in the right direction.

01-30-2005, 07:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
WingedFoal Bostons Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA Posts: 1,035 Rep Power: 99	Boston marking apartment!! Okay We've had this problem for a while but it seems to only get worse no matter what I do, and I'm at the end of the rope here. Before Tasmo hit "puppy puberty" he was COMPLETELY housetrained and would rather jump off a cliff than use the bathroom in the apartment. He is still like that in many aspects. Lately, though, he has been marking his territory ALL in the apartment! I don't have a single clue what to do. I've tried everything. I have kenneled him when I couldn't keep my eyes on him, tied him to me and led him everywhere with me, given him more attention, ignored it but cleaned it, etc., but he will even do it in front of me and then try his best to hide! I don't understand this because he has always been the type dog to try to make his human completely happy in any way, not to mention he's smart as a whip. When I first figured out what he was doing, I noticed he'd run like the devil and hide under the deepest darkest corner of the bed. When I'd look around I'd find an object, furniture, or a wall with urine on it. It started before we got any other dogs, and nothing had changed. He is let outside to potty very often and never has accidents in his kennel at night when he stays in it (which is a lot lately, with this problem). I've housetrained many dogs, but he has me completely stumped. My new little one (Bitty) has already caught on and rarely has an accident now. Any ideas or suggestions about Tasmo?
	__________________

01-31-2005, 08:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
WingedFoal Bostons Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA Posts: 1,035 Rep Power: 99	Thanks, I'm going to try that. I'm guessing that I had been too lenient when the problem started. But nothing works on him, so maybe this will. I did tell him "no" about it the times I was able to catch him. He is a great dog in all other ways. I tell him to sit, he sits. Same thing with lay and stay.
	__________________

01-31-2005, 02:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 185	How long has this been going on? I'm surprised that he will still urinate while on an umbilical leash to you. How does he do that if you're paying attention to him? I'm of the opinion that marking is just another form of not being housetrained and you need to start at square one again. Here's my 2 cents: If you are free feeding him, put him on a 2 or 3 meal schedule. Take him outside regularly (after meals and after play) and reward him immediately for peeing outside. I'd continue to keep him tethered to me, not walk by anything he perceives as a "pee post", and watch him for sniffing behavior that suggests he has to go outside. Kit
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

01-31-2005, 03:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
WingedFoal Bostons Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA Posts: 1,035 Rep Power: 99	He has been completely housetrained. he was when he was four months old. He is a year and four months old now. He started this a few of months ago and it has just gotten worse. I've started housetraining him all over again, but it's almost like he thinks his marking has nothing to do with actual peeing. He has even marked four people I know (one being me). He has done it in front of me a few times on a wall corner or the couch (blehhh) but lately he sneaks off to do it, which is why I haven't been giving him the chance to get offleash. He KNOWS he's not supposed to do it too. Which makes it even more difficult for me. If he didn't know it was wrong, it would be easy to train him since he is a very trainable dog. I would be able to see the lightbulb go on in his head. But since he obviously knows it's wrong (trying to hide after doing it) then I don't know how to get through to him that it's UNNACCEPTABLE. Tasmo does not drink an excessive amount of water, and is very healthy. I feed my dogs two times a day and take them out every hour and a half, except at night, when they usually stay in their crates. If one is whining really bad at night I take them out. Tasmo always pees and poops outside and hasn't had a "real" accident since a long time ago. I swear this marking he just does not understand is bad, he doesn't soak things like he actually had to pee. He just "marks" which still smells just as bad and not anywhere near acceptable. I just don't know what to do with him.
	__________________

01-31-2005, 03:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 185	I see. There's more to the story! Thank you. Then I would agree with Carrie that in this case, you initiate NILIF and increase obedience training. BTW, I assume you have you used an enzyme based cleaner on the urine marks, that the dog is un-neutered, the behavior started before you got the new dog or has not increased since you got the new dog. How old and what is Bitty?
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

01-30-2005, 10:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,551 Rep Power: 292	http://www.dog-pictures.co.uk/dog-ca...-is-free.shtml Read that site. Your dog is showing you that he owns the place, not you. Do the things they talk about in this program and start a regiment of obedience training. You mention giving your dog all kinds of attention. Maybe you're going overboard. Give him attention, yes...but when you choose to, not when he demands anything. I would tell my dog "NO!" if I saw him lift his leg in my house. There's no question about that. I'm very pro positive training methods. But there are times where you have to stop something now. But saying, "no" alone isn't going to last or be enough. You need to read that site up there. Here's another good library of information about dogs and training: http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/dog.htm Someone else may well come along and have some good tips. This is to get you started.

01-31-2005, 08:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,551 Rep Power: 292	Well, good...let us know, will you, how things go, if he improves. Good luck to you! That would be awful if that continues. Grrrrrr.

01-31-2005, 04:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
WingedFoal Bostons Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA Posts: 1,035 Rep Power: 99	Sorry for not elaborating further earlier. Bitty is a female Boston. She is only four months old. He started marking before I got any other new animals. I have used every kind of enzyme cleaner possible, even steam cleaned the carpets a few times, but he does not have a favorite place to mark. He is random. He is not neutered, he is very obedient, and as I said, easy to train, so this has got me stumped. I do not let him outside anymore without being on a leash. He is under strict supervision now when out of the kennel.
	__________________

01-31-2005, 04:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
flyndog Unleash The Possibilities Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Marfa, TX Posts: 3,969 Rep Power: 185	Curious, did the marking start about the time the kid started throwing rocks? I see Bitty! She's adorable!!!
	__________________ mARFa Dog Training and Behavior

01-31-2005, 06:01 PM	#10 (permalink)
elegy Pit Bull Junky Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,073 Rep Power: 112	do you have a reason for not neutering him? neutering would be a step in the right direction as far as stopping the marking.
	__________________ thank you to everyone who supported me during blogathon. i was able to raise $453.60 for pit bull rescue central!

01-31-2005, 06:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,551 Rep Power: 292	Marking is different than just having to go pee. My two boys mark and so does my female Lab occasionally. They do it on very particular things, like bushes where others have been, trees, snow banks etc. They are not allowed to do it on sides of buildings or any other stuff owned by humans, tires, etc. They do not empty their bladders usually at one time as they would if they just have to pee. They have a purpose. And when they are doing it on your stuff, they need to be told, "NO!!!" They cannot be allowed to do such a thing on a person! As much as I promote and utilize positive reinforcement in training, that is one thing that I wouldn't go for. I'd probably flip out and scream at my dog. I think my dogs already figure that so they never tried it. Yes indeed, you better start showing that dog who pays the mortgage and all the bills. But in a nice, round about way of course. (as described in the NILIF program) and some beefed up obedience training....every day a little bit. And watch him like a hawk. Even if he's not neutered, he can still learn his manners. Neutering helps, but only when it's done before puberty sets in. (for the most part) Sometimes that doesn't even help too terribly much. Like I said, my girl Lab does it a little. And my boys were neutered at 6 or 7 months and they do it, maybe not as excessively as an intact male.

01-31-2005, 06:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
WingedFoal Bostons Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA Posts: 1,035 Rep Power: 99	Thanks. Yeah, he was supposed to be a show dog, but my husband is gone again to Kuwait so right now I'm holding off on trying to get him shown until I can get the help I need and move back to Birmingham. Well it's pretty much on hold anyway until I can get Tasmo's problems straightened back out. Thank you flyndog, I think she's adorable too! I fell in love with her the moment she pounced on me and attacked me, then left a lovely smelly present on the floor right in front of me. So she ended up going home with me.
	__________________

01-31-2005, 06:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,551 Rep Power: 292	Are those yours on your avatar? What a cute picture! I love Bostons.

01-31-2005, 07:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
WingedFoal Bostons Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL, USA Posts: 1,035 Rep Power: 99	Yep all of them are mine, even the cockatiel, Mickey B, and chinchilla, Icarus. And that's just the beginning, and when I get a house (soon) then there's probably going to be more. Bitty is the one on the left on the avatar. She's madly in love with Tasmo (as you can see her kissing him). If there's a way to be beside him, she's there. Tasmo loves her too, but I don't think it's as extreme.... Oh and I've had my baby Phillip, Mickey, and Icarus long before I got Tasmo. Well, Phillip was only 5 months old then. But he did come before Tasmo. I don't think much has changed to cause Taz any disturbances, but I guess in his eyes he sees it a bit differently.
	__________________

01-31-2005, 09:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
sthrnbelle bostonlover Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 241 Rep Power: 83	Another Boston lover! You have sweet-looking Bostons...you can see mine in my avatar and signature. Sorry I don't have any advice on the marking, but it sounds like the others have pointed you in the right direction.
	__________________ my pictures fun sci-fi and fantasy forum amazing amazons

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