praise, work ,selfpressure ..or what?

[D.Schäferhund]

Hi guys,
I was wondering if you may have experienced something similar.And or what you think about this...

You all by now know Aika, well atleast from the pics and what i told you.
We know she works for me not the toy/ball or clicker she could do without it and probably would not care!


We had to take a forced brake in the drug training for 3-4 months and we picked it up last week. we were back at the scratchboxes and easy stones and such, she found it no big deal.
Yesterday we went into a building and started easy locker searches, fire estinguisherboxes and such, so We ran in the problem we had before, too, again.
I point don to search the lockers and she lays down, so took her off and restarted... well all in all I took the leash off and we tried again, still had to "reset" her a couple times to get from the just laying down to a real alert.
she got her ball, and her praise... (she looked back for me, to get my approval , not the ball!)

Is the leash so much pressure? is it her saying mom i can do this, don't you trust me? is it a mix of both?

In agility we have similar moments, we clciker a lot of stuff, we use targets to be able to send her out...
yes the clicker helps learning but is not the primary reward, the reward is, when momy says it was great...

How much pressure can i actually/accidently put on a dog? Not knowing how much it is. how much stress can that cause for a dog?
I was wondering, hmmm If she is looking for my approval, for the praise, the things that tell her, "yeah, i am proud you did the thing I wanted, good job!"
How much does that dog put itself under pressure to make me happy? how much praise do i have to give to make her feel that she is doing what i want?

she is like that with Obedience, too. She was in focus for long periods of time, i knew she had a good concentrationspan/attentionspan but how hard was she working herself to learn what was expected fast.

I start wondering now, how much that dog pushes herself to please me? She is not a hyper dog and offers a lot of nervousness, and does not have the tendecy to it, she is calm and collected. but can tune it up real good, too.
Have you had similar experiences?
What do you think?

[Kona]

Originally Posted by D.Schäferhund

Is the leash so much pressure? is it her saying mom i can do this, don't you trust me? is it a mix of both?

It is not my experience that a leash puts pressure on a dog, nor does she see a leash as a trust issue. Pressure is put on a dog by inconsistent training, whether intentional (taking extended breaks) or not (her human partner acting unsure or uncertain).

A leash to a dog is like water to a fish. When it's always there she's not even conscious of it. In her case sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not. And when it is on her your emotions change, and therefore your behavior changes too. When you add to that your concern that you may be doing something wrong, she picks up on the fact that you have lost your confidence. A dog needs a confident leader.

Put the leash on and leave it on. Show her what you want her to do and reward her for it. Find out what she considers a reward, whether it's a clicker or a ball or praise or a food treat, and use it consistently and immediately following obedient behavior. And relax.

[Dogsareme]

I just wanted to add remember that the clicker is only a bridge between the behavior and the reward. The clicker tells that dog what they are doing right when they are doing it. It by it's self is not a reward. Or to get technical the clicker is a secondary reinforcer, but your primary reinforcer should always follow.

[D.Schäferhund]

These are all good points...

We don't have a leash on problem, she knows the leash and in training it normaly does not matter, I even let her drag the leash... it seemed to make a difference in the drugwork... I was relaxed because she did the basics just fine and i was certin she would do, had a relaxed set of one more pair of eyes there... he said the same thing. she wants to do it perfect..

You know the drugs are there and they learn drugs mean ball! but Aika can do without the ball, i use it as the reward, but she would find the dope just to make me happy, and go to an extreme just for a pat, she learned that the ball belongs to the game. but this is not what she is working for.

same with the clciker, i know it is a marker for good behaviour, the treat or toy is the "real" reward, ja sometimes it helps showing the dog what is needed, a different way... but even when she gets the clcik she looks back, when she wasn't sure yet what to do. "Is that the right thing mom? Was it that what you wanted?"
And not?: "Hey where is my clcik, don't i get a click now" Let's try that ! Ok give me a click, that is good what I am doing, You want this , or this? and so on.."
other dogs go for the clcik, she goes for my word.

I am not sure if you understand what I am trying to figure out. I don't know it either, i am just thinking again and trying to find out what that little bitty is i feel and can't nail. I was hopeing when you throw ur thoughts in there i can get closer.

Is she pushing herself so much to make me happy, am i sometimes going to fast in training, how much room does she need how much trust she expects?
Sometimes i feel, that she wants to do so much stuff on her own, trying to tell me, Hey trust me i can do that! And then I let her, but leave her on her own too much. What of course creats insecurity!

There is something about to happen between us, and i don't know what.
We are progressing and doing wonderfull things, she learns fast and is always up for work, are we on the edge of a new point of our understandings, are we getting to become a real team?
Are my unconcious expectations a unpleasant pressure, is it that she wants to do it, how much is she pushing herelf, howmuch do i let her down when she asks me to do it herself and I let her do it, but am not "right behind" her

I know i do not make much sense here, but I felt puzzeled as i left training that day, thousand of thoughts flying round in my head, i know something is up but i don't know what!
It is not about accomplishing a task, we get that done, we find ways, i can make her understand and she is trying so hard to understand, too.

I like to get them thoughts in order figure it out what is happening..