Big/Little Dogs and Off-Leash

Beryl · 07-13-2007, 08:47 AM

(I didn't want to hijack the Dog Park thread!)

Is it my imagination but are large breed dogs naturally trained off-leash better than little ones? My GSD followed me everywhere around the unfenced part of my property and I never worried about him wandering off. I never taught him to do that. My medium sized childhood mutt was similar.

My toy dogs (past & present) are not like that at all. They will come when called (if I can get their attention) but they will go across county lines if I don't keep track of them and keep them on-leash.

Is this a large/small breed thing?

GreyhoundGirl · 07-13-2007, 08:51 AM

Hmm... Interesting question. Now that I think of it, all the dogs I know that do that are either medium or large. Jenny will follow me around off lead, but my beagle never would. My friends pekenese doesn't, but my other friends giant shnouzer (sorry about the spelling) does. Same with my friends papillon and another friends large mutt.

However, I'm sure there are exceptions.

Very interesting... I wonder why

IceyBlueSibes · 07-13-2007, 09:19 AM

That's an interesting point, Beryl.

However, Cuca (the chi/terrier mix that was here) was trained to follow off leash. As well as her sister Tibby. But Tibby has given us reason to keep her on lead if she's outside with no fence. Two times she'll get so excited and playful that she just takes off running. Cheech and Chong stay in the yard, but they had gone to obedience classes in order to achieve that, so I dunno.

But my aunt has all small dogs, and they all stay in the yard with her. Howver, those are the only small dogs that I know that do that.

None of my huskies can be trusted off leash, though. Their desire to run is far stronger than their recall could ever be.

That is a really interesting point!

greekblue · 07-13-2007, 09:37 AM

I do not know how that works either. This a great question!!

I do think, however, that it might be true that large breeds are easier to train off leash -- especially working dogs. Maybe that is because larger breeds are more likely to have been bred to work very closely with the owner, so they might have instinctively the tendency to stay close.

BRTs were created by the Russian Army to as protection and Guardian dogs. They are extremely loyal -- do not like to stay away from you (they call them "velcro dogs." ) BRTs do not need training to accept the leash because they want to be constantly next to you, so they do not mind the leash. Also, training off leash is good, but even without training, they rarely will go run away from next to you; if they do run for something, it will never be far enough, and soon they will run back to you. Training off leash is more of an option just so they will not run after something you do not want them to -- it is more training them to stay focus on you despite destraction.

brandysmama · 07-13-2007, 10:16 AM

Around here, I see both big and little dogs running out of their yards off-leash. The little dogs might slightly outnumber the big ones, though. I know Brandy is good about staying close to us, or at least where I can see her. My ILs' miniature schnauzer is as well. Their Yorkie, though, will take off if something interests him elsewhere (thus he always has to be leashed outside).

I think it depends on several things. The type of breed, whether or not they're altered, etc. For example, the border collie/beagle mix behind us is a HUGE wanderer. And car-chaser.

calgal · 07-13-2007, 11:23 AM

I think that most people with pups that will grow large, start some sort of training program early on, whereas people with little dogs don't usually train them. This is what I've noticed anyway.

Kris · 07-13-2007, 11:40 AM

I agree with Calgal. Most large/giant breeds owner's extensively train; but it's been my experience (and one of the reasons I dislike small dogs) that small dog owner's don't train as much if they train at all.

TinyAlbinoDancer · 07-13-2007, 12:35 PM

Calgal and Kris probably have a point. For me I would never even try to offleash train my little ones because the thought of them being spooked or something and running off is terrifying! Missie being a Terrier I don't trust her anyway.

Ollie and Trixie could probably easily be trained to be offleash but I'd worry about Ollie spooking or Trixie having one of her "blonde moments" and forgetting what "come" means.

LOL Plus, what if a large dog approached that was aggressive? Large dog against large dog is one thing. I need the added safety measure of a leash for a small dog. My .02.

Ritz459 · 07-13-2007, 01:03 PM

I wonder if it has something to do with WHY the large dogs were bred. If you think about it, a lot of large breed dogs were bred to work with a human and to keep looking back on them for direction. Most small breed dogs aren't bred for that.
That would explain why a Greyhound or Sibe would be prone to taking off, even though they are large dogs, but a breed like a German Shepherd or a Lab stick around a bit more.

And then, of course, training and personality play a huge role in the fact as well.

I had to laugh because when I took Blackie into school with me for my speech final, I let him off lead in the classrooms (not to worry....extreamly small private school where I know everyone. There is probably, at most, only 15 people in a class and that is a large class). He would lay right by my desk, and if I got up to sharpen a pencil or turn in a homework assignment, he would follow me around the room, ignoring everybody going, "Come here, Blackie! I want to pet you!" lol

Chloe, as a young puppy with a preydrive, is never trusted off leash. Unless I have food in my hand, that is.

Shelties · 07-13-2007, 01:42 PM

hmmm this is a good topic, would shelties be considered a "big dog" ? because they sure don't have the small dog attitude and do follow me around off leash. I don't think i could ever go with something smaller than a medium size, and i don't think i could handle a large dog i have always thought larger dogs were harder to deal with.

StephanieandTeddy · 07-13-2007, 03:18 PM

I walk dogs professionally and I've found no difference. If a dog respects you it will stick with you.
Often small dogs are spoiled and allowed up on furniture, and spoken to with a baby voice, etc....this behaviour from humans just lowers them in the eyes of the dog!!

When I walk dogs in a group I rarely speak to them and I expect the same behaviour from all of them, regardless of size!!

***Cassiepeia*** · 07-13-2007, 05:57 PM

I agree that it depends on training and what the breed was bred for. Although training is probably the main reason.
It really is unfortunate that most small dog owners don't feel the need to give their dogs the same training they'd (possibly) give a large dog. I think sometimes those giant egos in tiny bodies need the training more than the larger dogs.

Cass.

***Swiftwind*** · 07-13-2007, 06:54 PM

Harley has always been fantastic off leash ever since he was a pup. These days I can trust him 99% of the time to be perfect off leash (he's going blind and I'm sure a little deaf these days). Abby can be perfect off leash but I get wary letting her off around bigger dogs because the majority of the time the bigger dogs will try and initiate play with her, and they get quite rough.

ginastags2315 · 07-13-2007, 06:59 PM

Abbey and Muffin follow me around when I take them to the park off-leash, and come when I call them if they go somewhere else. If I ever let Mufasa off-leash in an unfenced in area, I'd never get him back. He comes when I call him, and he's trained well, but he tries to chase everything (I guess because he's a puppy): birds, rabbits, squirrels, leaves blowing around, and motorcycles or any car that makes a noise, and he has a very short attention span, so he ignores me when I call him if he's chasing something.

Beryl · 07-13-2007, 08:26 PM

You are probably right, Cass. I do talk to, handle, and play with my toys more often than I did my GSD. My toys went (and go) everywhere with me because it is convenient for me and others (hotels, stores, friends) are more accommodating. My toys became velcro but they still couldn't be trusted off-leash.

07-13-2007, 08:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Beryl Latte, Boo, & Phoxx's Mom Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,159 Rep Power: 92	Big/Little Dogs and Off-Leash (I didn't want to hijack the Dog Park thread!) Is it my imagination but are large breed dogs naturally trained off-leash better than little ones? My GSD followed me everywhere around the unfenced part of my property and I never worried about him wandering off. I never taught him to do that. My medium sized childhood mutt was similar. My toy dogs (past & present) are not like that at all. They will come when called (if I can get their attention) but they will go across county lines if I don't keep track of them and keep them on-leash. Is this a large/small breed thing?

07-13-2007, 09:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
IceyBlueSibes Eyes = Mirror to the soul Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jupiter, Fla. Posts: 7,831 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 276	That's an interesting point, Beryl. However, Cuca (the chi/terrier mix that was here) was trained to follow off leash. As well as her sister Tibby. But Tibby has given us reason to keep her on lead if she's outside with no fence. Two times she'll get so excited and playful that she just takes off running. Cheech and Chong stay in the yard, but they had gone to obedience classes in order to achieve that, so I dunno. But my aunt has all small dogs, and they all stay in the yard with her. Howver, those are the only small dogs that I know that do that. None of my huskies can be trusted off leash, though. Their desire to run is far stronger than their recall could ever be. That is a really interesting point!
	__________________ Sheiba, Denali, Ike, Nitro (Siberian Husky), Kelso (GSD x), Lugar (Boxer/Pit x), Willah (Shepherd/Husky x), Tibby, Cheech, Chong (Chihuahua), and any foster we have in the house! 9 Kitty cats!

07-13-2007, 10:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
brandysmama OK, where's the snow??? Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nashville, TN, USA Posts: 256 Rep Power: 66	Around here, I see both big and little dogs running out of their yards off-leash. The little dogs might slightly outnumber the big ones, though. I know Brandy is good about staying close to us, or at least where I can see her. My ILs' miniature schnauzer is as well. Their Yorkie, though, will take off if something interests him elsewhere (thus he always has to be leashed outside). I think it depends on several things. The type of breed, whether or not they're altered, etc. For example, the border collie/beagle mix behind us is a HUGE wanderer. And car-chaser.
	__________________

07-13-2007, 11:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
Kris Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 299 Rep Power: 65	I agree with Calgal. Most large/giant breeds owner's extensively train; but it's been my experience (and one of the reasons I dislike small dogs) that small dog owner's don't train as much if they train at all.
Kris Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 299 Rep Power: 65

07-13-2007, 12:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
TinyAlbinoDancer Always room for one more Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,580 Rep Power: 168	Calgal and Kris probably have a point. For me I would never even try to offleash train my little ones because the thought of them being spooked or something and running off is terrifying! Missie being a Terrier I don't trust her anyway. Ollie and Trixie could probably easily be trained to be offleash but I'd worry about Ollie spooking or Trixie having one of her "blonde moments" and forgetting what "come" means. LOL Plus, what if a large dog approached that was aggressive? Large dog against large dog is one thing. I need the added safety measure of a leash for a small dog. My .02.
	__________________ ~Karen Missie~Trixie~Little Guy~Ollie

07-13-2007, 08:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
GreyhoundGirl Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kuujjuaq, QC and Eastern ON Posts: 408 Rep Power: 0	Hmm... Interesting question. Now that I think of it, all the dogs I know that do that are either medium or large. Jenny will follow me around off lead, but my beagle never would. My friends pekenese doesn't, but my other friends giant shnouzer (sorry about the spelling) does. Same with my friends papillon and another friends large mutt. However, I'm sure there are exceptions. Very interesting... I wonder why

07-13-2007, 09:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
greekblue Love Me Love My BRT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Orange County, Ca Posts: 521 Rep Power: 38	I do not know how that works either. This a great question!! I do think, however, that it might be true that large breeds are easier to train off leash -- especially working dogs. Maybe that is because larger breeds are more likely to have been bred to work very closely with the owner, so they might have instinctively the tendency to stay close. BRTs were created by the Russian Army to as protection and Guardian dogs. They are extremely loyal -- do not like to stay away from you (they call them "velcro dogs." ) BRTs do not need training to accept the leash because they want to be constantly next to you, so they do not mind the leash. Also, training off leash is good, but even without training, they rarely will go run away from next to you; if they do run for something, it will never be far enough, and soon they will run back to you. Training off leash is more of an option just so they will not run after something you do not want them to -- it is more training them to stay focus on you despite destraction.

07-13-2007, 11:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
calgal My Yorkster kids! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: central ca. coast Posts: 6,882 Rep Power: 234	I think that most people with pups that will grow large, start some sort of training program early on, whereas people with little dogs don't usually train them. This is what I've noticed anyway.

07-13-2007, 01:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ritz459 "Nothing is ever easy" Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,899 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 240	I wonder if it has something to do with WHY the large dogs were bred. If you think about it, a lot of large breed dogs were bred to work with a human and to keep looking back on them for direction. Most small breed dogs aren't bred for that. That would explain why a Greyhound or Sibe would be prone to taking off, even though they are large dogs, but a breed like a German Shepherd or a Lab stick around a bit more. And then, of course, training and personality play a huge role in the fact as well. I had to laugh because when I took Blackie into school with me for my speech final, I let him off lead in the classrooms (not to worry....extreamly small private school where I know everyone. There is probably, at most, only 15 people in a class and that is a large class). He would lay right by my desk, and if I got up to sharpen a pencil or turn in a homework assignment, he would follow me around the room, ignoring everybody going, "Come here, Blackie! I want to pet you!" lol Chloe, as a young puppy with a preydrive, is never trusted off leash. Unless I have food in my hand, that is.
	__________________ ~Blackie, Rose, Chloe (dogs), Pheobe (cat), Casey, Dameon (ferrets), Joey ('Tiel), Dot, Louie (cavies), Pickachu (hamster),

07-13-2007, 01:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Shelties Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 336 Rep Power: 65	hmmm this is a good topic, would shelties be considered a "big dog" ? because they sure don't have the small dog attitude and do follow me around off leash. I don't think i could ever go with something smaller than a medium size, and i don't think i could handle a large dog i have always thought larger dogs were harder to deal with.
	__________________ "shelties are like a bag of potato chips, you can never have just one"

07-13-2007, 03:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
StephanieandTeddy I knew love. I had a dog. Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 385 Rep Power: 85	I walk dogs professionally and I've found no difference. If a dog respects you it will stick with you. Often small dogs are spoiled and allowed up on furniture, and spoken to with a baby voice, etc....this behaviour from humans just lowers them in the eyes of the dog!! When I walk dogs in a group I rarely speak to them and I expect the same behaviour from all of them, regardless of size!!
	__________________ Rottweiler "Toby" at the bridge. Long-coat Akita "Teddy."

07-13-2007, 05:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
*Cassiepeia* Chihuahua Mum Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 8,281 Blog Entries: 9 Rep Power: 286	I agree that it depends on training and what the breed was bred for. Although training is probably the main reason. It really is unfortunate that most small dog owners don't feel the need to give their dogs the same training they'd (possibly) give a large dog. I think sometimes those giant egos in tiny bodies need the training more than the larger dogs. Cass.
	__________________ Say NO! to animals in pet shops. Rescue a friend instead: Petfinder Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Book Club ~ Blogs ~ Art Classes ~ Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

07-13-2007, 06:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
*Swiftwind* Believe in Yourself Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 5,972 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 212	Harley has always been fantastic off leash ever since he was a pup. These days I can trust him 99% of the time to be perfect off leash (he's going blind and I'm sure a little deaf these days). Abby can be perfect off leash but I get wary letting her off around bigger dogs because the majority of the time the bigger dogs will try and initiate play with her, and they get quite rough.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw: Art Classes / Blogs / Book Club / Photo Gallery / Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

07-13-2007, 06:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
ginastags2315 Abbey, Muffin, & Mufasa Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 273 Rep Power: 42	Abbey and Muffin follow me around when I take them to the park off-leash, and come when I call them if they go somewhere else. If I ever let Mufasa off-leash in an unfenced in area, I'd never get him back. He comes when I call him, and he's trained well, but he tries to chase everything (I guess because he's a puppy): birds, rabbits, squirrels, leaves blowing around, and motorcycles or any car that makes a noise, and he has a very short attention span, so he ignores me when I call him if he's chasing something.
	__________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." - Josh Billings "I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive." - Gilda Radner

07-13-2007, 08:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
Beryl Latte, Boo, & Phoxx's Mom Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,159 Rep Power: 92	You are probably right, Cass. I do talk to, handle, and play with my toys more often than I did my GSD. My toys went (and go) everywhere with me because it is convenient for me and others (hotels, stores, friends) are more accommodating. My toys became velcro but they still couldn't be trusted off-leash.

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