izzie bit Chloe:(

[linnie]

OK I need suggestions....
Isabella is my tibbie and Chloe is my chi.
For some reason Izzie gets jealous of Chloe and attacks without much provocation. Chloe does give her the evil eye but thats all.
Then Izzie takes offence and boom I have a fight to intercept.
Last night I noticed Chloe had a bite on her neck.

What can I do to stop this from happening??? I watch them all the time. Especially when food is about as that causes problems but also Izzie hates Chloe to come near us.

I do discipline her but boy she sure loads on the guilt.
Chloe being the older and the sick one I have to give her extra consideration but Izzie sure doesnt miss out

[Cassiepeia]

Sounds like Izzie wants to be higher in the pack than Chloe.
I'm not a dog trainer so I can't give much advice, but I'd separate them at meal times first and foremost. Izzie may feel like she can 'move up' in the pack since she's young and Chloe is older and weaker now.
Don't quote me on this but you may be causing more problems if you (in the dogs eyes) are putting Chloe ahead of Izzie. I mean you may be disrupting the pack order and dogs will naturally discipline each other if that occurs. The more you break their "rules" the more Izzie will feel the need to discipline.
Did that make sense?
How you can solve the problem, if that is actually what's happening, I'll have to leave to someone else.

Cass.

[oc_spirit]

I'll jump in at this point Cass, if you don't mind. You're on the right track though. Linnie, try making sure that Izzie gets everything first, that will mean pets, food, treats, toys....everything. If you need to give Chloë a pill or summat, give Izzie some one-one attenton first. Doesn't have to be anything big, could just be a quick hug and scritch behind the ear.

Cheers!

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

Well, ideally you should stay out of their arguement, especially if your not recognized as the leader of the household human canine pack and by stepping in you may actually be not only making the issue more intense but signaling that your going to get involved often will make the dogs go at it more quickly.

In the instance your describing it sounds as if Izzie doesn't recognize your leadership and she may actually attack more forcefully at the first sign of your distress feeling that she needs to protect you from Chloe and in her eyes rightfully so. By then causing a scene and pulling Izzie off you create not only more turmoil in the pack order ( a subordinant would never dream of pulling the alpha ) you also risk getting yourself bit as a reprimand for over stepping your bounds.

Now mind you this is only my opinion Linnie but we've talked before about a few of the things that have been going on and it really does sound like Izzie feels shes not only above Chloe but you as well. If it were me I'd first start working on some ground rules and begin to establish your place at the head of the pack before entering into a squabble where your vote currently doesn't mean anything to Izzie.

Pack order is usually established without this much ugly behavior involved but with you involved it will become more fiesty. I realize your first reaction is to help Chloe out just as would any caring owner BUT remember its the pack structure that isn't secure right now....want to help Chloe out? Next time they get into it don't say a word, if it appears that Izzie is getting the best of her and it's getting out of hand ( either dog getting seriously injured ) then pull Chloe's back legs out from under her so she has to bow to Izzie wether she wants to or not. It sounds mean I know but will end things much faster than what you have going now, Chloe is not going to take the alpha spot no matter how hard she tries, Izzie will take her lead spot with Chloe behind her and things will settle back down. JMO

[doberkim]

sonja said everything i wanted to say --

just wanted to add one thing.

separate them. if they are going to fight, until you can work out the pack order, do not LET them have the opportunity to fight.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

Originally Posted by doberkim

sonja said everything i wanted to say --

just wanted to add one thing.

separate them. if they are going to fight, until you can work out the pack order, do not LET them have the opportunity to fight.

I agree, if you can head it off before it happens great but I also know how difficult that can be in a multi dog household. I hope no one misunderstands what I'm attempting to say, I would never say "sure, let them fight it out " but pack order is of great importance and happens with much less violence usually in the wilds as all parties involved understand the rules.

When adding humans it becomes more difficult for human and dog alike to communicate their wishes and lets face it human pack order is less intricate.

[sunny98]

I agree with what you are saying. When I had Sunny in obedience class the instructor said to let them work it out unless one it doing serious harm to the other. They have to figure out who is the Top dog. By interfering she said that you are actually making it worse because they never get a chance to work things out between them. I know it is hard, I watched Sunny and Whimper go through it when Sunny was a pup and then again when Whimper got older. It took a long time for Sunny to come out on top but eventually Whimper just got too old to care. So it all worked out with no blood shed and me just watching to make sure that no blood ever spilled.

[Barrett]

I have been using a little bit of the NILIF program with my two dogs. Since Lucy has started to get a bit older, Bailey has started guarding favorite toys from Lucy and growling at her when she tries to take one. She lets me take them but won't let Lucy near them. I felt it wasn't good to just take the toys away since that won't solve the problem. Instead I make Bailey and Lucy do a sit, down/stay or leave/give for every thing they want. When they eat I make them down/stay for a minute before they can go to their bowls to eat. If they want me to play fetch I make them down/stay before I will throw it and make them give the ball to me for a treat. Even if they just want some loving from me they have to sit or down for 30 seconds before I will give them some loving. A few times a week I hand feed them every kibble during a meal and make them go through all their commands for each kibble. When Bailey tries to take Lucy's toy I tell her to stop and I take the toy back and give it to Lucy. If she continues I take Baileys toy away but still let Lucy have hers. Things are working out great between them now and the food/toy guarding has stopped fow two weeks now. Everyone feel free to comment on my approach to this problem since this is my first time dealing with two dogs at once. I can definetly use some constructive criticism here! LOL

[elegy]

i would not let the "evil eye" bs go on. if you see it, tell her to knock it off. you are the boss. you get to decide what goes. evil eyeballing another dog is plain old rude.

i have pit bulls so they are absolutely NOT allowed to work things out on their own. that could result in seriously injured and/or dead dogs.

[doberkim]

we will just have to agree to disagree - its one thing if there isnt an injury, but linnie said her older dog already had a bite. if a dog is getting injured, and its still going on, then things arent working out; until linnie has control of the situation, i would not allow the dogs to have contact with each other. yes, its hard in multi-dog households, but it is what needs to be done sometimes. my dogs have no contact with each other when i am not home, and when i am home, i am in control. bowie would love to wrestle mya to the ground to FORCE her to play, but she will not - i let them play, but if he gets too out of hand or she gets too snarky, then its over. i have combined a total of 170+ lbs of dog here, and i cannot allow them to "fight it out" if that is what they wanted to do. dogs can struggle with dominance without inflicting wounds. but once a there is actual bloodshed, until the situation can be controlled, the dogs need to be controlled. i have a close friend right now that has been bitten three times tring to break up her two LITTLE dogs - its an older terrier (10) and a young frenchie. shes having a hard time with it, but her dogs are totally separated and she has the help of a behaviorist to aid her, but the younger dog may need to be rehomed. get the dogs under control individually before they are brought back together. it doesnt seem hard to me to make sure that each dog has individual time with you, that each dog eats separate from the other.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

Originally Posted by doberkim

we will just have to agree to disagree - its one thing if there isnt an injury, but linnie said her older dog already had a bite. if a dog is getting injured, and its still going on, then things arent working out; until linnie has control of the situation, i would not allow the dogs to have contact with each other. yes, its hard in multi-dog households, but it is what needs to be done sometimes. my dogs have no contact with each other when i am not home, and when i am home, i am in control. bowie would love to wrestle mya to the ground to FORCE her to play, but she will not - i let them play, but if he gets too out of hand or she gets too snarky, then its over. i have combined a total of 170+ lbs of dog here, and i cannot allow them to "fight it out" if that is what they wanted to do. dogs can struggle with dominance without inflicting wounds. but once a there is actual bloodshed, until the situation can be controlled, the dogs need to be controlled. i have a close friend right now that has been bitten three times tring to break up her two LITTLE dogs - its an older terrier (10) and a young frenchie. shes having a hard time with it, but her dogs are totally separated and she has the help of a behaviorist to aid her, but the younger dog may need to be rehomed. get the dogs under control individually before they are brought back together. it doesnt seem hard to me to make sure that each dog has individual time with you, that each dog eats separate from the other.

True enough, I missed the bite on the original post and your right, injuries should be avoided and not allowed to continue. Huge difference between an alpha showing their place at the head of the pack by putting their paws on anothers back or taking another down by the neck without drawing blood but once the blood comes into the picture it shouldn't be allowed to continue.

With 13 + dogs in my home on any given day the last thing I would even consider doing is allowing them to have contact with one another while I'm not home and they all know that the humans of the house rule here followed by the alpha dog. I do let them work things out between one another if injury is not being caused and I'm present but as was already mentioned....the evil eye for no particular reason and things of that nature are not tolerated here.

[linnie]

ok points taken and I am now feeding them seperate I will also keep them seperate if I am not at home.
One more question though............
Wouldnt Chloe naturally be the ALpha dog between the two seeing as she is the older dog?????
Izzie is the baby in this family

[WingedFoal]

Originally Posted by linnie

One more question though............
Wouldnt Chloe naturally be the ALpha dog between the two seeing as she is the older dog?????
Izzie is the baby in this family

Not necessarily... The day I got Bitty at 2 months old and 5 pounds, she was already Alpha dog over Lazy, who is over a year old and 70 pounds, and Tasmo, who is a year-and-a-half and 17 pounds. She would have been Alpha over the humans if we'd let her, but that wouldn't have been a pretty sight. As for Lazy and Tasmo, she had them cowering on their backs submitting to her by the end of the night. No blood was shed, no one was hurt by it. They all just seemed to know how it was going to be. It's all in the attitude of the dog and nature.

[Cassiepeia]

Originally Posted by linnie

ok points taken and I am now feeding them seperate I will also keep them seperate if I am not at home.
One more question though............
Wouldnt Chloe naturally be the ALpha dog between the two seeing as she is the older dog?????
Izzie is the baby in this family

Age doesn't mean much to animals. Younger ones will always try to knock the aging leaders off their thrones. In this case, I think Chloe was knocked off a while ago.

Cass.