Dog escaping fence. Feel like I've tried everything!!

[sadieshy]

Hey everyone!! I have a HUGE dilemma. About 2 years ago Sadie passed away at 14 years old. We in turn adopted a schnauzer mix at the shelter soon after (Rustie). Shyla (pit bull mix approx 7 years old) and Rustie get along well, but Rustie taught Shyla (pit bull mix) how to dig. Shyla can climb any fence. We knew this before Rustie but had figured out how to keep her in a 6' privacy by attaching metal to the top like a prison fence. Shyla has since learned to dig under the fence. We have tried almost everything!! The biggest dilemma is that if she keeps this up we will have to put her to sleep. She was a rescue dog that I fostered and adopted. She is going about 7 years old. I have had her all but the first year or so. She has MAJOR issues. I would not feel safe placing her in another home. She is terrified of anything that sounds like thunder, fireworks, gunshots, etc. She gets so freaked out that she shakes (seizure-like) on the couch with us. She eats sheet rock which we have learned to control. She is not keen on certain men and especially Hispanic-looking men. So, when she does get out of the fence, she takes stance and barks at anyone close to our area. We live in a busy neighborhood with people everywhere. She even does this to the teen, men looking boys walking by the house. This is a liability that we cannot risk.

We have tried poop in the holes, placing cement barriers in the places around the fence line, gravel in the holes, 40# bag of mulch, screwing metal at the base of the fence, and electric wiring around the fence. Nothing worked but the wiring, but the wiring freaked her out so much that she would not move in the yard. What are we to do??? I am so at a loss. I LOVE this dog!! She has MANY issues but we have worked through most of them and can handle those that are still exsisting BUT this one. I would like any advice. She is digging solely to escape and "play" in the neighborhood. Rustie will get out with her but he comes back to the house to come in with us. Shyla just runs from us and I have to pick her up in the car (as she loves car rides) or the boys eventually catch her and can leash her. HELP, Please!!

Thanks for any and all suggestions,
Mikki

[Doglover1988]

Does she live in the back yard? Perhaps take her out to potty on a leash and tether her when you want her to have yard time.

[sadieshy]

She is an inside dog and goes outside to play, sun, go to the potty, in the backyard. I have not tethered her in the backyard. We have a lakehouse too which we have to tether her there and she hates it!

[dogs4life]

Fence respect is a very frustrating issue once they've got out and like being out, it's a battle to keep them in, IMO.

Here are 2 other threads on this issue, not sure if they will help:

http://www.globalpaw.com/forum/dog-b...ediquitte.html (Fence respect - how do you teach fence ediquitte)
http://www.globalpaw.com/forum/dog-b...ce-digger.html (Fence Digger)

HTH

PS If Shyla does not come when called, there is probably something else going on other than fence issues. Has she ever come when called? Does she look at you when called? Does she blow you off when you make a request? Did you change her name when you adopted?

[sadieshy]

Thanks for the links. I will check them out.

She was given the name Shyla when she was found by one of our rescuers in the group. She was shy at that point. She will come to you when called in an enclosed area. When out and about she has never come when called. She does look at me and just blows me off. Very frustrating. I have worked on her obedience on and off but have never taken her to a class. It was really working on all her other HUGE issues and then I was just exhausted after that. This is the look I get when she is out of the fence and away from "catching" distance from me.

[Odetoadream]

When she was zapped by the electric fence. What did you do? Did you try and take her into the yard and play with her to show her it was safe so long as she didn't dig? She probly did not connect the digging to the shock.

My boys did the same thing. First time they was zapped, they ran to the porch and wouldn't leave it. But after walking with them and playing with them in the yard, and given time and a few more shocks, they soon learned that it only shocked them when they tried to slip under the fence. Now the fence is hardly ever on. Because just the sight of the wire reminds them.

How long did you try the electric fence? If it was just a day. You probly did not give her enough time to connect things. All she knew was she got shocked...not why, or where it came from. Thus her reluctance to move about in the yard. She didn't know where it came from and so it could happen anywhere. Let her observe the other dog and you playing in the yard, give her time to explore and figure it out. Don't baby her. If she gets shocked, act as if nothing really happened. Because if you do baby her and try and pet her when she's scared, your only reinforcing that there is something to fear. Given time she could very well come around and come to respect the wire and be content to stay in the yard. Specially if you give her incentive, toys, food and time with you in the yard.

Best of Luck!

[sadieshy]

We have lived in 3 homes since owning her. The first home we had a large yard and she never tried to climb the fence. At that point she was a foster dog and we were working on many other issues and this escape/climbing/digging had not brought about its ugly head. She was only digging mattresses up, eating the sheet rock on the walls, and having seizure-like activity with any loud storm, firework, etc. When we moved to the other home it had no fence. We put in a doggy door through brick and made her own enclosure. She then showed her skills at climbing chain link fence. She would climb out to go play and eventually climb back in and come back through the doggy door. This is when we tried the electric fence. It completely FREAKED her out. She would not go back outside at all. She would hold it until she exploded. I would have to DRAG her out there b/c she would not go and once out there she would just stay in one place and not move but to breathe. I did not baby her, console her. I just ignored it. This went on for days and no change at all. I have had many foster dogs in the past. I no longer foster at this time as my life is too busy with homeschooling my 3 children and taking care of my life here. I have trained many a dog and I am at a loss for her.
I have considered after reading the older posts of possibly trying the electric collar/fence again since we are in a different yard and to just try it again b/c I do not know what else to do.

We did use an indoor invisible fence with success with her to prevent her in certain rooms. It was very stressful on her at first...very but it was also a life or death situation. She would chew the walls when not being watched. It ended up working. So, this may be my try again but for outside. I truly feel for her as her whole life seems to be mostly stress and worry. She does have moments of relaxing peace with us but so many things seem to stress her out. I am surprised she has not had a heart attack.

[sadieshy]

Another idea...Has anyone cemented along the border of the fence to make a barrier? Has it worked? We are thinking of digging down some and pouring in sacrete and see if it works.

[dogs4life]

I don't see why cement might not work unless your dog is willing to dig to China to get out.

I will share what we have done without shocking, not to say I would not shock a normally, non-shy dog but I'm thinking your dog is too fearful for negative reinforcement and it might be making her worse.

I had a neighbor put decorative lava rock, the ouchy kind to discourage digging. But the dog learned to push the fencing and now has another issue with reinforcing the fence. For unattended times in the yard, they decided on an enclosed, roofed kennel with a cement floor and have been safe and happy.

I have buried chicken wire and put 2 layers of large river rock (6 inch and larger) at the fence line. This did not stop my foster dog, she broke through the fence like my neighbor's dog. If I were to keep her for life, I would have needed an electric fence, but she was not fearful or shy. For my dogs I decided no unattended outside time was allowed at all. This was very hard to accept and even I resisted but after a couple times of filling in holes and anxiety over their safety, I had to make that change.

I had a shy, fearful dog before and it cost her life. In retrospect, I needed professional help from a responsible behaviorist, not a trainer but a certified behaviorist, come to my house to help educate myself and my housemate. Mind you my housemate was a respected horse trainer (she was known as a horse whisperer by many vets), veterinarian and a very talented dog handler, I was also very good handler but we still did not posses the skills nor the knowledge to deal with a very fearful dog.

A kennel operator in town uses boards along the fence to deter digging. It's a mental thing, not sure what the dogs are not seeing but it worked for 1 of our dogs who was digging out of a fully enclosed chainlink kennel. I'll try to take pictures to help describe how they did it.

For now, I would work on her off-leash commands like recall and stay within an enclosed area with only positive training techniques. I know it's hard to find time with 3 kids but it could save your dog's life and quite possibly boost her confidence. You might want to check out books like Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed, The Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell, "On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals" by Turid Rugaas, and Click to Calm by Emma Pearsons to help with the fearfulness but maybe a couple hours with a great certified behaviorist would be worth the money since reading books is not tailored to your dog or your dynamics in the house.

HTH

Here's the fence with a board in front. Just make sure your dog cannot flip or push the board away.

[BetterDog4U]

I hate fences ....... I set up a 100' cable anchored to the back of my house and anchored to a shed in the back yard. The cable is 1/4" stainless and has a commercal pulley on it. The pulley then has a 30' nylon rope attached to it. This give Neka 160' of space to run. Not sure, but this may be an option for you. If you want to see how it works, watch the first two vids I posted called "sarge & Neka playing in the snow. Neka is on the cable and pulley in the vids.
\
Here's a link: http://www.globalpaw.com/forum/dog-p...ting-snow.html (Neka Plating in the snow)

[StephanieandTeddy]

Why is she being allowed access to the yard at all if she is destroying it? Just keep her in the house and take her for her walks 3x per day...

IMO, dogs should never be left in a yard unattended anyway...If you are out there with her you should be able to correct her behaviour.

[rayter]

I suggest you take a look at this dog fence. It can replace your traditional and not truly practical chain link fence. It’s a combination of training and advanced technology that makes dog training simply amazing.

Good luck!

[c0_re]

Originally Posted by Odetoadream

When she was zapped by the electric fence. What did you do? Did you try and take her into the yard and play with her to show her it was safe so long as she didn't dig? She probly did not connect the digging to the shock.

My boys did the same thing. First time they was zapped, they ran to the porch and wouldn't leave it. But after walking with them and playing with them in the yard, and given time and a few more shocks, they soon learned that it only shocked them when they tried to slip under the fence. Now the fence is hardly ever on. Because just the sight of the wire reminds them.

How long did you try the electric fence? If it was just a day. You probly did not give her enough time to connect things. All she knew was she got shocked...not why, or where it came from. Thus her reluctance to move about in the yard. She didn't know where it came from and so it could happen anywhere. Let her observe the other dog and you playing in the yard, give her time to explore and figure it out. Don't baby her. If she gets shocked, act as if nothing really happened. Because if you do baby her and try and pet her when she's scared, your only reinforcing that there is something to fear. Given time she could very well come around and come to respect the wire and be content to stay in the yard. Specially if you give her incentive, toys, food and time with you in the yard.

Best of Luck!

Lots of good info in this post, I've had issues in the begining with some fear\startled but keep it up for a couple days and play with her in the yard.

I've never had an problems that didn't go away after a couple days even with dogs that had issue.

Originally Posted by StephanieandTeddy

IMO, dogs should never be left in a yard unattended anyway...If you are out there with her you should be able to correct her behaviour.

I'm going to preface my comments with the fact that I live out in the country on 4 acres on land not in the city or suburbs where I wouldn't even own a dog that requires lots off leash time in to be happy and fullfilled.

I'm sorry but I just don't understand this thought process, can I lock you in the house and take you out for 3 short walks a day; does that sound like lots of fun and the most enjoyable way to live your entire life?

Spend some time locked up in a room with your freedom involuntarily taken away from you for a couple days I think you'll have a different outlook on "life"

My dogs are left 100% unattended in the yard, somtimes 15 hours of the day(they have heated\cooled shelter) and I've never had a single issue. Not to mention how much nicer it must be for the dogs(and me) to be able to go to the bathrrom whenever they want without me haveing to let them out.

[Carrie]

For the fear of thunder and other such noises, they make CDs that you desensatize the dog to. You start out at the most minimal level that is audible. You play that until she is at ease with that level and very, very gradually, in tiny increments change up the volume....over months of time, never exceeding the comfort level of your dog with each increment. You associate high value treats along with the sounds. This can help to lessen her fear.

Also, get a DAP (dog appeasing pheromen diffuser.) DAP Dog Appeasing Pheromone Electric Diffuser (48 mL) This hormone is thought to have a calming effect as it is released into the room. If that doesn't work, ask your vet for some tranquilizing drugs for those thunder storms or fire works. I wouldn't hesitate one bit to drug my dog if it were as severe as you're describing. Not one bit.

With the escaping, this is a dog that clearly can not be left outside unattended. I recommend that you go out with her and increase alternative mental and physical exercise while in the yard to a significant degree. Get some agility equipment and teach her to jump, to go through a tunnel, weave poles etc. You can look up online how to make these things yourself or buy them...look on Craig's list or ask some trainers for some 2nd hand equipment at a discount. Practice some obedience on another trip outside, always making it fun...using positive reinforcment methods.

Then bring her in. No outdoor free time unless you're right there with her. Not ever. Don't wait for her to begin digging or snooping around the fence. Intercept her at the first sign of intention and redirect her to something which is more motivating than what she is about to do. Have her do an obedience or agility skill which has something to do with motion, not a stay. Reinforce that heavily, with a high rate of reinforcement....rapid and frequent high value treats or a novel and special toy.

If she has a wee of a good time in her yard, she'll be less apt to want to leave. Keep her mind and body very busy while outside along with strict supervision. Focus on wanted behavior, don't wait for her to already be digging to get out or barking at people and then have to react to that. Prevent it in the first place and that behavior, over time will likely extinguish.

I can't imagine ending a dog's life for behavior problems that have a very good chance for success if you're consistant and diligent.

[Carrie]

She is not keen on certain men and especially Hispanic-looking men. So, when she does get out of the fence, she takes stance and barks at anyone close to our area. We live in a busy neighborhood with people everywhere. She even does this to the teen, men looking boys walking by the house. This is a liability that we cannot risk.

I forgot to address this. How often do you take her out of your yard on a leash walk? This sounds like a desensatization/counter-conditioning program needs to be implimented. If she spends a lot of time in a fenced yard left to her own devices, that is part of her problem....barrier frustration and not enough socializing practice.

Arm yourself with some delicious, gooey treats and take her out. Don't let her get to the point of arousal when she sees people, dogs or objects that trigger her stress. Keep her at a "safe" distance, where she is aware of these things but not reactive. Start letting the treats rain upon her, regardless of her response. Keep the leash slack, if necessary, turn into her, making circles. Don't approach or let anyone approach head on. Make arcs and approach from the side...when she's ready for approaching. Keep the leash loose. Gradually, while you are making these circles and feeding your dog at a rapid rate of reinforcement, work your way closer, trying to keep your dog occupied with the treats. Teach your dog to pay attention to you. She'll learn to associate these triggers with a wonderful time. It will actually go from a classical conditioning situation to an operant one. Trigger = treats. Eventually, it will become a blur to her....when triggers are present, they ARE the good thing. You must remain quiet and calm and not show any tension. All this is done over quite a period of time....months, if needed. Don't go further than where she is doing all right. Don't rush it in other words.

More off leash play time with safe, tolerant, gentle dogs that you know well that will put up with her. Teach her how to greet dogs politely. Use a relatively boring, open area. If she is positively not safe with other dogs or people, condition her to a muzzle. It's really important that she learns how to play and greet a variety of dogs and people on and off leash. Ask people to help you by being unobtrusive with their greeting...staying back but tossing treats to her. If you act nervous and worried, she'll pick up on it. If you're not comfortable with all this stuff to try, get yourself a behaviorist to come help you. Just don't let anyone use aversives on this dog. (including electric shock devices)

I recommend that you read Jean Donald's book, Fight and/or Click to Calm, by Emma Parsons. If you can't get any improvement with her meeting other dogs and people, you'll just have to keep her at home and not do walks unless it's someplace where you're not likely to run into any triggers. It can be extremely difficult if a dog didn't receive ample socialization as a tiny puppy or if there was abuse in the past. But some improvement should be able to take place. It's such a shame when dogs have had things happen to them to make them like that. I hope for the best for her. And it's hard to know if what anyone gives you for tips to try are exactly, taylor fit to your situation. We can only go off of what we gather from the written posts. Again, if it doesn't seem right to you, get a behaviorist in to help.