Kennel trained, but not housebroken?

[Ritz459]

Chloe is normally confined to our back hallway/laundryroom/garage area (back part of our house) when my mom is at home as Chloe drives my mom crazy (jumpy, shadowy, sheddy, doggy, hairy, whatever-my-mom feels-like-griping-about-that-particular-dayie...). Seeing as it is by my mom's grace that Chloe is even in the house, we've compromised. Chloe is also "kenneled" in that same area when I am at school or when I am home but can't watch her. She has never had an accident when confined to the back part of the house and will whine/signal at us when she needs to go out. She's held it for almost nine hours before with no problem.
She also has an outside kennel (7'x20') that she also won't go to the bathroom in. She will if she is bursting at the bladder, and then it is in the farthest corner from her doghouse and water dish. Because of this I'm pretty sure that she has that "must keep living space clean" instinct that most (or what I assume most) dogs have. Even when we first brought her home she has never ONCE pooped on the floor or in her kennel.

However, when she has full run of the down stairs she will pee on the floor. I've always had issues with her when I was attempting to house break her and it got to the point where she'd pee every twenty minutes (that really stunk taking a dog out to go pee four times an hour). She gives no signs, just squats and goes. She'll now hold it when running loose downstairs for about an hour, but that varies. Sometimes she'll pee after thirty minutes of being loose, other times two hours. I was playing with her in the living room while watching T.V. the other day (had just taken her out to go pee) and I didn't even realize she had peed on the floor until I noticed the dark spot on the carpet.

How can I get her to expand her "kennel" instinct to the whole house? It is very frustrating having a dog that you know can hold it, has been taught for a year that pottying outside is good, and that signals to go out when in a smaller area, but still pees on the floor when running loose around the house.
Keeping her on a leash kind of defeats the purpose of letting her have run of the downstairs, although it does force me to pay attention to her. I did keep a leash on her when she was younger and I couldn't watch her like a hawk and she won't even attempt to pee inside on the floor when she is on leash (if something is holding on the other end. Not too sure what she'd do if she were to drag it around. She probably wouldn't care because she pees when she is on her chain outside...).

I'm cleaning the pee spots with warm water, then sprinkling it with baking soda, letting it sit for a day, and then vacumning it up. She gets regular exercise and potties on command outside. When I ask her, "Chloe, do you need to go outside?" she'll run to the door and sit if she needs to go (normally accompanied by prancing and whining if she really needs to go).

She's made progress in all of her "issues" (resource garding, dog reactiveness, etc.) except for this one. She makes me want to pull my hair out sometime.

[dogs4life]

Is she marking or is her bladder full?

Is Chloe a marker? Hank is a marker, Montana was a marking maniac but my Mayce never marked.

[Carrie]

If she's going 4 times in an hour, I'd get her checked just in case for a bladder infection first thing. You must use an enzamatic cleaner such as Nature's miracle because the scent is still strong even with the baking soda. That tells her that this IS the toilet area. (whether she's marking or not) Marking is peeing and that is to be done outside.

Next, you'll have to go back to square one, as if you're training a new puppy. You have to prevent her from going there anymore by watching her every second and crating her when you can't watch her. Take her out often at first and encourage her to go. Has she associated a cue with going? Get that in place if not. When she's going (not before) tell her "go wee" "go poop" or whatever you use. Once she learns what the cue means, you can use it before to try and elicit the peeing/pooping. Reward lavishly like you always have and other than that, prevention. If you have to use a leash for a while to scoot her outside, then you'll just have to, as inconvenient as it is. It does defeat the purpose of her having free run, but in the long run it won't defeat the purpose. It will allow her free run without destroying the house. It may take some time because going inside has been working for her and in her mind, it's the place to go. A pain in the rear, to be sure but re-training as if she's a brand new puppy is the only way.

[Carrie]

I gotta tell ya...I sort of chuckled when I saw your title because beagle boy....(Splash...just adopted) is potty trained but not kennel trained. LOL. He thinks he's going to be murdered if I close the door on it. I had to when I took him in the car and he didn't vocalize or anything, but I had to shove him in...didn't have time to make it nice. He was not a happy camper. Now, I've got it in my kitchen and I'll throw in a peanut butter Kong and leave the door open, feed him in there etc. Hopefully, he'll get use to it gradually.

[Ritz459]

LOL Chloe's always done well kenneld or crated off once she got over her slight seperation anxiety. She used to cry something awful if we left the room and she couldn't come.

If she's going 4 times in an hour, I'd get her checked just in case for a bladder infection first thing.

She doesn't go that frequently anymore, but she did for a while when she was a couple of months old.

Is Chloe a marker?

I don't really know. She is a dominant dog and will pee "frequently" when out on walks (in a two mile span probably about four times), but I don't think of her as a marker. Our neighbor's Malamute would mark and she'd actually hike her leg up. She's not peeing by/on a particular object, just randomly on the floor.

Next, you'll have to go back to square one, as if you're training a new puppy. You have to prevent her from going there anymore by watching her every second and crating her when you can't watch her. Take her out often at first and encourage her to go.

This is what I've been doing (or attempting to do - took a while to get it in my head that when I couldn't watch her with two eyes I should kennel her) ever since I got her (almost a year now).

Has she associated a cue with going?

Yep, she has. We go outside and if she seems a bit distracted I'll say, "Chloe, go potty" and she'll stop whatever she was doing and go pee (which is followed by praise, a game of chase, or some other type of reward). She also goes poop on command.


I was thinking about it a bit more yesterday and I suppose my main problem is that now she won't pee randomly like she used to when she was a puppy, but she will pee when her bladder is full. This can be avoided if I take her out every hour, but I'd like it if she would signal me that she needs to go out to go potty (like she does when she is kenneled) instead of just squatting on the floor.

[TinyAlbinoDancer]

Would it help to maybe feed her in the room she's peeing in, as well as cleaning those spots better?

It's hard to think of a solution without knowing exactly why she's doing it, isn't it! Trixie is a marker and very rarely (thank God!) will pee on the carpet still. Her main problem is pottying in front of the door instead of going out the doggie door.

Aside from the suggestions above, I agree with Carrie that she may need re-training (pain in the butt huh!! That's why Trixie still pees in front of the door whenever she feels like it. lol It's tile and in one spot, so I'm like "oh well. Shoot" lol).

[Carrie]

This can be avoided if I take her out every hour, but I'd like it if she would signal me that she needs to go out to go potty (like she does when she is kenneled) instead of just squatting on the floor.

Problem solved. Take her out every hour. Don't let her go inside at any cost. You can try using the bell trick (where you hang it on or next to the door) with the tiny dab of peanut butter on it to teach her to ring the bell everytime the door is opened. Or maybe you can teach her to speak before opening the door. One of my dogs doesn't tell me either. Chuli just stands by the door, doesn't make a sound. So if I don't see her, she can't hold it for long and she'll go on the floor too. Once in a great while I end up with a little boo boo from her. So, I am quite careful to just make sure to let her out often enough. The others whine and stand by the door. But I usually don't wait for that. I just make it part of the routine that they go out several times a day.

[dogs4life]

Looks like you are getting great advice, just wanna ad one more thing....if you try all that has been suggested and still don't have results...you might want to get a black light and look for pee marks in the house you missed. Your cats might have marked the carpet thus prompting Cloe to mark over the cat pee. I used a black light and it was gross all the places I missed, just a thought. FYI you can get cheap battery operated black lights at party supply stores and auto supply (they use it for auto detailing).

Good luck!

[Carrie]

That's a great idea Dog4life. It's amazing how easy it is to miss spots when cleaning. That scent has to be all but removed with an enzematic cleaner or it is so much more likely the dog will pee there.

[dogs4life]

Originally Posted by Carrie

That's a great idea Dog4life. It's amazing how easy it is to miss spots when cleaning. That scent has to be all but removed with an enzematic cleaner or it is so much more likely the dog will pee there.

It was actually the grossest thing I ever did however my daughter thought it was so much fun looking for glow spots all over the house. Id follow her around the house with cleaner while she chanted, "get it mommy, get it". There was pee on baby toys, baskets, mattresses, walls, shoes and kitchen cabinets. Hank was a "great" marker, hopefully we have broken that habit indoors *crossing fingers*.


How is progress Ritz, any "accidents" lately?

[Ritz459]

The black light sounds like a good idea - but I'm sure it will gross my mom out totally! LOL I should also probably use it in my room when I clean to find all of the ferret accident spots. Yuck. That was not fun when I was fostering that kit who wasn't litterbox trained...I'd find poop piles in the weirdest places.

Chloe's been doing really well. I haven't left her alone long enough to make a mess as of yet, but as long as I take her out after she's had a "hyper" session, she's been doing well. Its only been a couple of days, so I don't think she is "cured", however. lol
She's even gotten better at relenquishing forbidding items (socks, paper, cups). All I need to do now is say, "Chloe. Nooo." and she'll normally drop whatever she has. I have to say that is a huge step up from her running off with whatever she had and then working at not getting bit while trying to get it away from her. She actually dropped a bone for me today when she was outside off leash.

[dogs4life]

The black light only detects urine if the animal has a gall bladder, I think all your critters have gall bladders so it should work great......