Teaching a Small Dog "Lay Down"

[gaddylovesdogs]

As you may know, I walk a little Westie once a week and am also training her. She already knows sit and come. I have tried teaching her "lay down" the way I taught my dogs--the dog sits, then gently pull the down into "down" position while giving the command, then treat--but she always pops her little butt back up. If it were a larger dog, I could stand over her, but she only weighs about 20 pounds compaired to my 50-65 pound dogs, and I don't want to hurt her.

Any tips??

[Ritz459]

Well, how I taught Blackie and Rose to lay down was the lure meathod. I don't particuarlly like the placing meathods since Rose is a timid dog, and it would freak her out if I tried to place her, and since she is stubborn, whe resists quite well. lol But it all depends on the dog.
Anyway, how I taught Blackie and Rose to lay down was I had them is a sit, and then I took a treat and lowered to it the ground so they'd have to lay down to get it. If they popped back up after they laid down, they didn't get the treat. They had to stay laying down.
Maybe how you would teach the Westie to laydown is when she is down, praise her and treat her, but keep your hand over her (since she is small enough, you could do that) so that she can't pop back up.
If my dogs pop back up, I tell them no, and I make them laydown again. Then, if they stay down, they get the treat and praise.

[Rip's Girl]

I teach 'down' to a dog of any size by putting them in a sit position, and applying VERY gentle pressure to their torso, right above their armpits. Apparently that is a very sensitive spot and most dogs will roll right over for that, and it's not very invasive or intimidating.

The lure method can also work sometimes, but it didn't do anything for my dog.

[Purr]

I used the lure method, as well.

[flyndog]

Sometimes it's just a matter of lower the treat more slowly, or holding it out a little farther from between the legs.

But, funny you should ask. I just had the same problem with a student in group this week and this is how I solved it.

I resist using any aversives however "noninvasive" or "nonintimidating" I think they are. I don't routinely press on a dog's body to get it into position because to some dogs that is very aversive. I especially didn't want to use any on that particular dog.

The dog just did not want to down and was having a miserable time and the owner was getting frustrated. On top of that, at that moment, I couldn't remember how to work a "backwards" or "fold back" down (front down, then butt) to give the owner an alternative to practice. As it turned out, my old-timers disease was a good thing because I had to quickly do something else and it saved all concerned a lot of hard work.

Although the owner wasn't training with a clicker, the dog had been conditioned to it months ago before they came to my class, so I whipped out my clicker and we shaped a down. The owner sat on the floor, put her arm around the dog, lifted both front legs (also can be viewed as aversive by some dogs), and slowly lowered the dog. We stopped before having to force the dog into position and she ended up in more of a reclining sit than a down, but the legs were out (albeit resting on the owner's arms) and the butt was down. I clicked that and the owner treated. We did this twice, then went back to luring from a sit. I clicked for the front legs just lowering with the butt still on the ground. The next time, the dog bent a little further, butt still on the floor, and I clicked. Within 5 minutes the dog was happily doing downs and the owner was having fun instead of becoming more frustrated. I know you don't use a clicker and in lieu of that, you can use a verbal marker, but the effect won't be as quick.

The Westie will probably resent being forced to do anything! He will however, enjoy being given a chance to figure things out on his own and make it his idea.

Kit

[gaddylovesdogs]

Thanks for the tips! I'll try them tomorrow with Lucy. I taught her "sit" by gently pushing her down, and she's good at that now, but she has a problem staying in that position...I've attempted to teach her stay, too...didn't work out very well.

[Ritz459]

Originally Posted by gaddylovesdogs

I've attempted to teach her stay, too...didn't work out very well.

I guess I had it easy....lol I was bored and at my Grandma's house alone (Grandma and Mom were out somewhere....can't remember exactly what they were doing), so I just got some dog treats and I taught Molly how to stay in five minutes. (And Molly is a Schnauzer too. Lots of brains, but normally stubborn.) lol Blackie loves his stays, but I do have to work with Rose more. She is horrible at them. She'll stay in a stay for about 20sec. and then she'll just pop up.

[opokki]

Another thing you could try is sitting on the floor and luring the dog under your leg (foot flat on the floor with knee pointed toward the ceiling, in the shape of a capital "A"). If she has to crawl under your leg to get to the treat she will have to go down all the way...you can lower your knee as needed before luring her under it.

[chell78]

thats how i teach small dogs is under my knee it seems to help they dont feel they are being forced to go down yet you kinda are forcing them in a way!

[Pugdawg1]

I lure.. I've never used any sort of force in placing them or making them do something. Has worked great for my boys and I. They don't feel pressured, and I can see that they are using their little 'noggin' and doing some thinking.

[gaddylovesdogs]

I tried luring, but I did have to put some pressure on her upper body to let her know that she was supposed to lay down, not just sit there licking the treat.

[Cassiepeia]

I used a lure when I trained my sisters silky. Worked great.
Don't allow her to lick the treat. Hold it on the ground and move it away slowly if she tries to grab it or lick it.

Cass.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Lucy is doing pretty good with lay down. I told her owners how I am teaching it to her, so hopefully they are working on it with her. I have seen her out of her yard twice in the last few weeks, but she seems to be getting better at come.

Cass--I don't let her lick it or eat it until she is in down position, I have the treat in my hand so that she cannot see it. After about a minute of her trying stand there licking my fist, I opened my hand slightly and lured her. It works better if I have my hand on her back because she gets my point--that I want her to lay down.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Lucy is doing really good. She didn't even need me to press on her back yesterday . There were a lot of garage sales, so that was good socialization. She met another small dog, and a large dog, and had a good time playing with a Bernese Mountain Dog (she made friends with him a few weeks ago...he lives in a kennel facing the park and she likes running up and down the fencing playing with him). Her owner said they've been practicing with her, I think it shows. I'm really glad she's showing progress.

[flyndog]

Glad to hear she's improving!
PS Please don't press on a little dog's back to make her lie down. I thank you, the dog thanks you.