Training Assistance: The Kitchen...

[saden99]

I've been trying to train my dog to stay out of the kitchen lately but it doesn't seem to be working.

What I do is get his favorite treat and entice him into the kitchen. When he crosses onto the tile floor I say "No!" and he backs away. I hand him a small part of the treat and do it again. Once he is not enticed I then drop the treat on the floor and walk away. He doesn't go into the kitchen and he gets the treat.

The problem seems to be that the training isn't sticking. He will walk into the kitchen whenever I try to make something to eat and I tell him "No!", but he will still walk in later on.

I do this at least two times a day for the past 2 weeks and it just won't work...

Anyone have any ideas? In general I would like to forbid his entrance into a few rooms of the house but right now my biggest worry is the kitchen.

[Sentry]

My dogs leave the kitchen when I tell everybody "get out of my kitchen",LOL It has become a command,LOL I only give a treat when they are told they can come BACK into the kitchen. With the release comand "ok, you can come in now" I'd do the regular treat for out then make him wait...then give a comand and treat when he's back in the kitchen. Soon he will figure I only get a treat when invited back. Hope this helps=)

[GSD]

baby gates, they aren't just for babies anymore. I know that isn't really training, but it is easy

[Ritz459]

Yep, baby gates work well. When Chloe would come into the kitchen I'd "ahhhh!" at her and body block her out. Most of the time she thought I was playing so then she'd "ruff!", play bow, and dive bomb me. Then we got a baby gate and she is fine now.

Your dog may not be understanding what you want. It is possible he thinks "No" means to stay back/ignore the treat (much like leave it) and not "stay out of the kitchen". Or, rereading your post, you say he "walks in later on". How much later? What do you do when he walks in? If he is staying out to begin with and not later on, it may be a duration issue. Or he thinks you aren't paying attention so he can sneek in.

[Rivsky]

Originally Posted by saden99

What I do is get his favorite treat and entice him into the kitchen. When he crosses onto the tile floor I say "No!" and he backs away. I hand him a small part of the treat and do it again. Once he is not enticed I then drop the treat on the floor and walk away. He doesn't go into the kitchen and he gets the treat.

To me this just sounds confusing. If I've understood this properly you are in effect luring him into the kitchen with a treat and then saying no right?

I'd be more inclined to stand in the kitchen with a treat (something you can throw) and if your dog moves towards the kitchen ask him to stop or sit/drop (whatever will work for him) and then throw the treat back out behind him so the reinforcement is coming from the room you want him not the kitchen or you.

Hope this makes sense.

I think the baby gate idea is a great one!!

[AnimalsAreMyLife]

I would also suggest a baby gate.

[saden99]

I'll probably get a baby-gate for it then...there are two entrances. One is about 5 feet wide and the other is 4 feet...so need two of the collapsible.


Is it not viable to teach the dog to stay completely out of a room? I looked over the way I was training him and I guess it can be sort of confusing for the dog. If you don't come into the kitchen you get a treat, but when I drop the treat you still cant come in for a treat...


I thought he would be able to understand the different textures of the floor. The dining room, living room, etc have carpet while the kitchen has dark colored tiling.

[Dangels]

A babygate is a good idea to keep him out of the rooms that you don't want him to go in. You could also teach him to stay out of certain rooms by teaching him "borders" in your home. You start this by
putting a 3 strings accross the doorway of the room that you don't want him to enter. If trys to come accross the entryway anyways, tell him no, then put him in a sitstay. Once he's sat there for a little while without trying to cross your "border" praise him.

After a week or so, he will start to learn that he is not allowed to enter the room. By that time, you should be able to take the top string down. Continue with the working with him, correcting him with a stern "No!" when he trys to enter the room, and praising him when he sits at the doorway, without trying to cross the line. Eventually, you will be able to take all of the strings down altogether, and with continued training.... he should soon learn that he is just not allowed to enter those certains rooms of your house. That type of "border training" has worked with all of my dogs, it takes a little effort on your part, but it's generally a pretty easy thing to train.

Best of luck!

[Sentry]

My dogs know the where the carpet ends and the kitchen begins is the no cross zone, when I ask them to go out of the kitchen they go right to the dinningroom carpet. When I'm done cooking I give them the ok and they are welcome back in. It wasn't hard to teach them after they knew what stay meant. Treat when they stayed, correction and take them back to carpet and treat when I gave them the ok to come in. It also helps if you get a person that fallows the comand too,LOL Seriously....give command have dog and friend leave to where they are allowed. Have freind sit and pet while you do your thing. When your ready have freind and dog invited back and treat. I do have a baby gate for one area but for the large opening it's just easier to teach them.
Here's a picture you can see the dogs on the carpet and grandma sitting at the table....No one comes in the kitchen with them blocking the door,LOL Even the new pup got it quick.

[Sentry]

Originally Posted by Dangels

A babygate is a good idea to keep him out of the rooms that you don't want him to go in. You could also teach him to stay out of certain rooms by teaching him "borders" in your home. You start this by
putting a 3 strings accross the doorway of the room that you don't want him to enter. If trys to come accross the entryway anyways, tell him no, then put him in a sitstay. Once he's sat there for a little while without trying to cross your "border" praise him.

After a week or so, he will start to learn that he is not allowed to enter the room. By that time, you should be able to take the top string down. Continue with the working with him, correcting him with a stern "No!" when he trys to enter the room, and praising him when he sits at the doorway, without trying to cross the line. Eventually, you will be able to take all of the strings down altogether, and with continued training.... he should soon learn that he is just not allowed to enter those certains rooms of your house. That type of "border training" has worked with all of my dogs, it takes a little effort on your part, but it's generally a pretty easy thing to train.

Best of luck!

Wow! that's a great way of training for rooms with large openings! Really good advise!!!

[Carrie]

Instead of focusing on what he should not do...."no!"....focus on what you'd like him to do. Luring him closer, then scolding him is very confusing to a dog. Make it so nothing is gained by his being in the kitchen; no treats, no meals, no attention or affection, no eye contact, no touching. Ever. Not by anyone.

When he is outside of the kitchen, go to him intermittently and frequently; praise, treat, make a fuss. In other words, it works for him to not be in the kitchen. It does nothing for him to be in the kitchen.

At first, you want to deliver a HIGH rate of reinforcement. That is, every 2-3 seconds while he is on his rug you will deliver a tiny, pea sized, high value treat. (chicken, steak, hot dog, cheese...something he LOVES) It works to stay out in the other room. You will step back and return, repeating the process. Gradually put a few more seconds between treats. Once he's really getting onto this and the behavior is getting quite reliable and you've put it on a cue("out") or whatever and he's responding to the cue, making an obvious connection, put this on a fixed ratio of reinforcement, every 10 seconds, say...if he is able to stay easily that long. (you determine at what duration he will succeed) Do this fixed schedule for just a few days. Then put this on a variable ratio, ....that is, you'll be varying the duration before he gets reinforced. One treat after 3 seconds, one after 6, one after 2, one after 10. Then gradually spacing them out more and more. Also vary your own position. Don't always face him and back away. Sometimes do it that way, sometimes walk sideways back, sometimes turn your back completely. When you start turning your back, ease up on the duration part. Make that part shorter, then he gets a treat. Its a whole other ball game if he gets use to your facing him as you walk away from your turning your back and walking away. Then vary his position, his location in the other room.

This high rate of reinforcement will tend to prevent him from failure....keep him from going in the kitchen in the first place. You want to prevent behaviors you don't want in the first place, if possible.

While he's learning, you can coax him back out if he does go in the kitchen. Show him a rug or someplace definite to lie down. Once he's doing this easily, add a cue word..."out" or "on your rug"....whatever. Give him a stuffed Kong or other good chewy toy to make him happy to be in the adjacent room. Be consistent and he'll get onto it. Don't lure him out with a treat. Coax him out...pat your thigh, call him... then give him the treat once he's settled on his rug or whever you want him to hang out. Repetition and consistency and everyone in the family must do the same.

Once he has it down with staying out of the kitchen, you can mix things up....take it to another room and try him out. He may not generalize this behavior to another room, so be patient. Use the same cue. And get him started. It's a good thing for him to be good at. You can use it anywhere.

At times when you can not be training or watching him, use a physical barrier. Choose times to work with him purposely...Set up a few 10 minute sessions a day or more often if you like. Don't try to train when you're very busy cooking. It's difficult at those times. But do keep him out.

Priase is not a very good reinforcer. It's better than being sternly spoken to, but that's about all the value it has to a traditionally, compulsively trained dog. Praise can be a good conditioned reinforcer...that is, that it comes before a primary reinforcer....a treat or something else the dog loves or needs. So, when heard, it signals that something good is on it's way. Pay your dog handsomly for correct responses.

[Shmee]

Agreeing with the Carrie-meister here...

I learned a "Goto your mat" command long ago and still use it every so often. My dogs usually stay out of the way or get trampled so they're good at high speed manuevering.

Anyhow, yes, the way to do it is get a spare remnant piece of carpet, something with a diferent texture than the rest of the house like a spare welcome mat or the like. Leash your dog and get some interesting treats in your hand and begin the "goto your mat" command and steer puppy to the spot. Once they are there, goto a down-stay and when it's all performed flawlessly, reward your dog. Once puppy gets idea, lose the leash and repeat.

You can then put the mat outside of your kitchen door, maybe insite of you, and the dog will understand his mat to be his little spot that he associates getting a treat with. Carrie described this abit more intricately than I did, but it's the same principle and with abit of patience and fortitude, this will suffice.

Goodluck!

-Shmee

[aussielove]

I use 2 baby gates in my kitchen, the puppies have free run in the kitchen only since they are bigger. All i have to do know is say " out of the kitchen" and my 2 adult dogs will go to the living room. But since the pups are all over now, it stays gated off.
good luck

[Flutterby]

I would NOT use a treat. You're the alpha - make sure the dogs know it. If you do not want them in the kitchen, then they need to know it's an off-limits area. They should not be allowed to roam free in the house, having free access to the kitchen whenever they please, but then having you confuse them by telling them NO when they think it's perfectly okay for them to be in the kitchen. If you never want them in the kitchen, they should stay out of the kitchen at ALL times.

In my own home, the dogs have free access to every room of the house (with the exception of my father-in-law's room, he's not a big fan of the dogs), but I do not want them in the kitchen when I am cooking, nor are they allowed to be too near the dining table when we're eating. When I'm cooking in the kitchen, if anyone comes close to the doorway like they're going to come through, I give them an "eh-eh!", and sometimes will have to make them "back" also (my younger two Weim girls are particularly stubborn, so I have to back them well away from the doorway). I will be standing at the stove, and look through the doorway to see 9 dogs scattered about the next room, staring with great longing into the kitchen. LOL

[Carrie]

The alpha? What evidence do you have that suggests dogs have such a heirarchy? Basing training or how we interact with dogs should never be based on false assumptions or irrelevent sources such as pack theory, wolf behvior or dominance. Learning theory has been demonstrated to be the most effective way to train dogs with the least amount of wear and tear. We must be parsimonous and not skip big leaps of logic to come to conclusions.

Using operant conditioning based methods, dogs are perfectly capable of learning to leave the kitchen when asked. My dogs come in the kitchen which is fine with me. But if they are getting in the way when I'm particularly busy, I ask them to go out of the kitchen. Dogs can learn lots of things whereby they can do them sometimes and sometimes not. It depends. Like barking, lets say. My dogs are taught "enough" when they've barked more than I want. But they are not disallowed to bark ever.