LIVE - Ask the Expert

[flyndog]

Tonight, we're talking with David Frost. Man! You have a pretty impressive resume! For those of you who missed reading Mr. Frost's bio in the other thread, he attended his first dog school at Hindenburg Kasern in Germany in 1966. During his career, he's trained and instructed over 3,000 dogs and handlers, and trained dogs for all four branches of the military, the Department of Agriculture, Secret Service, and several police departments. He retired after a 23 year career in the U.S. Air Force as Superintendent of the Department of Defense, Military Working Dog School where he supervised the training and certification of 500 dogs annually. Most of the work was with the Department of Defense Working Dog Program. He has worked in Sentry dogs, patrol dogs, drug and explosives detectors, mines, tripwire and booby trap and tracking. As a behavioral science technician with Southwest Research Institute, Mr. Frost worked on government projects for the military application of canines. That work included development of the drug and explosives detector dogs that are in use today. Some of the projects he worked on are still classified.
He has been with the Tennessee State Highway Patrol for 15 years as their Chief Dog Trainer and is currently their Director of Canine Services, where he supervises a 42 dog program.

Thanks for being here tonight, David.

Before we get started, a few things to know. Mr. Frost will be here tonight to answer your posts "live". This is a chance to ask an expert (not just somebody on the internet) any questions you have about training dogs. This is not a debate about training methods. This session will be moderated.

Just a reminder to hit the refresh or reload button on your browser periodically so that you are seeing a new page with new questions and answers, and not just the old page saved in your browser's cache.

This thread will be closed until 8PM CENTRAL time tonight. At that time we will open the thread and you can begin posting your questions here for Mr. Frost to answer.
Kit

[flyndog]

While we're waiting, here's an earlier question from

RAISED BY WOLVES: Hello Mr. Frost, 25 years ago I studied with a former canine officer. He used strictly William Koehler methods from the Guard Dog book, not the Obedience book. This man recently passed away, but up until the day he died, he stuck to the principles outlined by Mr. Koehler. Now, I did learn a lot from this guy, although I didn't agree with the "aversion" treatment of dunking a dog's head into a water filled hole to stop a digging problem. Taping an item in a dog's mouth to prevent chewing was another "aversion" treatment. I don't have as much problem with that one, although I don't use it myself.

What are your views on the old Koehler methods and who, in your opinion, has replaced him with updated techniques in the areas of guard dog and/or obedience training.

DFROST: Koehler is old guard so to speak and many in the training of police service dogs (PSD's) still feel he was a pioneer of sorts. Certainly among the first that published. His techniques, some still used today, were effective. That however does not mean that all trainers still subscribe to all the methods he proposed. Dog training, like most professions in life, has evolved as trainers gained more experience. Methods that are less aversive, produce a more efficient working dog continue to evolve as trainers strive to produce the best working dog for the officer whose life may depend on that very dog. While there are certainly some techniques of Koehler that are still in use, many have been modified over the years. Electronics have added a great deal more flexibility in training as well. My personal views on the Koehler methods are:
1. While he was not the sole developer of many of those techniques, he, at the time, did have the where-with-all to put them in book form.
2. His techniques were a great starting point for young trainers as a ground floor education.
3. There are more efficient ways today.


RAISED BY WOLVES: Do you have a current book out, yourself?

DFROST: I have written a book. It is unpublished and will remain so. I did help write the Canine Manual used by the US Air Force, but certainly was not the only writer and do not claim authorship of that document. I have had 2 articles published in trade magazines relative to dog training and selection. Thank you for your interest.
The first question is from RAISED BY WOLVES:

[flyndog]

FLYNDOG: Some pet owners use training equipment such as prong, chain, head, or electronic collars that they haven’t been shown how to use properly. In addition to understanding how to use the equipment, how important do you think it is to take a dog’s temperament into account before using any training equipment? Are there any temperaments that in your opinion are unsuitable for a particular training collar?

[DFrost]

Good evening, I hope you all bear with me, I do profess to be a bit computer illiterate, but I can type fairly quickly if you don't take off points for spelling.

David

[DFrost]

Temperment is the first thing I evaluate before I use any type of training on a dog, including collars, pinch collars, choke chains and electronics. Some dogs are just tougher than other, more stubborn, difficult to control. Others as I'm sure you are aware are a bit more tender hearted. So in effect, an evaluation of temperment must be the first thing a good trainer takes into consideration.

David

[DFrost]

Take electronics for example. In the right hands, they can be a most useful, and humane training aid. However they would not be right for a dog that is sensitive or soft. The same could be said for a pinch collar. Personally, in all my years as a trainer, I've never used the pinch collar as I see them more damaging than electronics. Electronics are not for the novice. Used improperly, they do nothing more than ruin a dogs personality and cause a great deal of frustration.

David

[DFrost]

I'll also make a comment about head collars, or haltis etc. Again, I don't use them. I don't think they really correct a problem, they are only an aid that prevents the problem from happening while the dog is wearing it. I know many pet trainers use them, and have people are happy because their dog does not pull etc while wearing it. However I don't think they really "train" the dog not pull etc.

David

[flyndog]

How do you train a dog not to pull?

[Pugdawg1]

Originally Posted by DFrost

I'll also make a comment about head collars, or haltis etc. Again, I don't use them. I don't think they really correct a problem, they are only an aid that prevents the problem from happening while the dog is wearing it. I know many pet trainers use them, and have people are happy because their dog does not pull etc while wearing it. However I don't think they really "train" the dog not pull etc.

David

Is that opinion the same for the harnesses I've seen lately, that hook in the front? A couple of folks that I know of, with pugs, are thinking of getting those. One of my pugs tends to like to pull as well, and I am afraid of putting a collar on him, so am looking for alternatives.

[DFrost]

We train the dog not to pull from the very beginning by teaching the dog to heel. Heel can be taught several ways, the most effective I've found is merely changing directions when the dog is getting in front. A dog does not have to "slung" around nor does a lot of force have to be used. Heel for us, is dogs right shoulder, in line with the handlers left knee. It, along with sit, are the first two commands learned while undergoing obediance training.

David

[DFrost]

Yes, I also include any type of harness. Of course the only time we use a harness is when the dog is tracking, or being rappelled from a helicopter. When tracking, the dog does pull and the harness prevents the dog from choking. For all other applications we use either the choke chain, or the leather collar.
David

[DFrost]

If for any reason you feel I need to answer a question more clearly, please don't hesitate to ask.

David

[fireworksinjuly]

My dog walks/ heels great 95% of the time. The other 5% is usually when we are in large groups or busy places. i.e petco or the other pet store I take him to. Where as when we go to the smaller pet shops hes a perfect angel. How do I get from 95% to 100%. I realize Petco is an exciting place to him and all, but he should be better behaved in them.

[flyndog]

Speaking of rapeling from a helicopter, I'm curious about military applications for dogs and would like to hear more about their training.
What are some tasks that are the most challenging to train for a trainer? What are some duties that are most difficult for a dog to perform?

[Pugdawg1]

A friend's pugs love to sneak out the door as they leave, and take off running (no fenced front yard). What can they do to help prevent this? Also.. if it happens, and the pugs get out, what is the best thing to do? Unfortunately they love a good game of chase.