Agression signs during play

[mulroony]

Just wondering if anyone else has encountered this. My dog Shelby will often during play show the signs of agression; showing teeth, staring at other dog out of corner of her eye, hair standing up, etc; but none of her play is ever agressive. She just played with a puppy, a couple months old, doxin all weekend, and was perfect but showed the signs of agression again. So far it has never really mattered all that much because all the other dogs do not seemed to care. I am just affraid down the line she will do this with the wrong dog, but at the same time I don't want to correct her during play and give her the idea it is wrong. I would appreciate any ideas. Thanks

[Carrie]

It's called play aggression. LOL. Most pups will show some of that to one degree or another. It's practice for the "hunt." My dog, Lyric does that with Jose, showing his teeth, snapping his jaws, sticking his rear in the air and his little stub tail going full throttle. I teach my dogs, "enough." So, that means it's OK to play like that a little bit and as long as the other dog isn't distressed, but is joining in. When Lyric looks like he's getting too over the top or Jose is bothered, I step in and say, "enough." And I get him interested in another game. It does seem that they can go from play to sitting on the fence, to over the top and away from pretend. So, that's no good. But as far as other dogs interpretting your pup's signals, I would think that all in all, if he is indeed instigating play, his body language will indicate that, in spite of those few things; staring, freezing etc. because he probably has his rear up in the air (?) and is also showing signs of an invitation to play. I hope so. LOL. If it's a dog your dog knows and likes well, plays with all the time, I wouldn't worry too much. I worry because my two are a Doberman and a Chihuahua mix and the Dobe could hurt little Jose without even meaning to. So, I do keep my eyes and ears open. Of course, you wouldn't want a fight to ensue, no matter what.

I really don't know what the best thing to do about this is...whether to completely disallow it or just watch them and be careful that they're both having fun. Kit may have some better advice.

[mulroony]

There are other signs of play, like back end up in tha air, I just had not seen this type of behavior in other dogs. It is good to know it is not uncommon, and I do kind of do what you do, and stop the play if it does get too rough. Thanks for the help

[flyndog]

This sounds like dog play to me. How old is your dog? Aggression involves some kind of attack - usually with teeth and ferocious snarling (and often blood loss). The aggressive dog definately wants to hurt the other dog and the other dog knows it. There is a big difference between aggressive or rough play and "play aggression". If the other dogs don't seem to mind, then this is not play aggression. Play aggression involves pain. It's a prey drive response that gets puppies all riled up over "the hunt", not a form of play aggression. An abnormal response would be predatory drift or predatory aggression.
So, unless that sounds like what's happening with your dog, you've just got a normal dog.

Kit

[Novel]

Just to add my 2 cents. It sounds like playing. I do as Carrie does, and, as the boss, decide when enough is "enough". If I understand, these two dogs live with each other. They're just playing, it's not like they can break out the checkers when they're bored. It is good that you are observing them, but as long as the front is down, the tail is wagging, and no one is screaming or bleeding, I think you'll be just fine.

[mulroony]

Well there was blood once, but I was there and it was an accident. Thanks for answering my question. I am really glad I found this forum as much as I thought I knew, it seems like I learn a new little tidbit in every post. It is also a good place to get all the factual data that supports what I have known for so long, but did not have any proof towards.

[Novel]

I am so pleased that you feel that way. I learn something new everyday, and love to come here and read about others and their dogs, because only so much can happen under your own nose. It's like a daily class on dogs!!

[Carrie]

I see it as play too, but you should see my Doberman with those teeth and jaws a snappin'. LOL. He darts in and out and bumps Jose with his nose, rear up and he's just bouncing around, back and forth, running and enticing Jose to chase him. He's careful not to step on Jose....knows to be careful with the little dogs. It's all fine and good, BUT what I'm worried about is one of those jabs where he goes in at Jose with his teeth/snout and if he ever bites too hard, even by accident, Jose is just a little 16 LB Chi mix. And sometimes Jose doesn't like it and will chase Lyric, barking and looking p.o'd. And other times Jose seems to want to play tag and chases, yapping in a more playful way. It depends on his mood, I guess. If Jose bites at Lyric in his irritation, which he does sometimes, but doesn't amount to anything (Lyric seems to not even notice) then what I'm worried about is the possibility of Lyric snapping back. He never has...he seems to be very tolerant and good natured....so far. He's just under two. But what if he gets p.o'd sometime back at Jose? So, that is why I really watch. But if my dogs were close to the same size, I wouldn't worry as much, but still would watch.

And I've seen dogs go from playing like this and having it turn into an argument, just like with kids. They start out play wrestling or something, and then one says, "Hey, that was too hard. I don't like you anymore. And whamo! Kid punches other kid" Then the fight starts. LOL. That's what I'm wondering about.