Pointers on training issues welcome!

[shrek]

Hi,

All seems to be going well with my 11 month old male Border Collie, but I could do with a couple of pointers to go along with the great advice you guys gave me when he was 6 weeks old!

I've tried puppy classes but my local trainer is of the attitude that he's never pulled a dogs head off so yanking the lead as hard as you can is the answer to most problems, maybe I wasn't pulling the right way but it didn't seem the way forward to me!

So here go's...............

- I can get him to heal 90% of the time when on the lead, but is simply yanking the lead the answer when he pulls and ignores the command to "heel"?

- There are times when he can show a slightly aggressive nature, not often and its a recent thing, which most of the time I can make excuses for, ie a dogs growled at him first or tried to steel a stick off him etc. The are other times, especially when my wife walks him that he can become "over" protective when they encounter another dog. My natural reaction is probably a negative training approach, but I'm really not sure this is the way forward.

- Collies are by nature clever dogs, but mine seems to have a very short attention span, which I guess is natural for an 11 month old dog, but is there anything I can do to increase it over time whilst making life fun for him?

- If I give him a bone he growls whilst he's eating it, he doesn't get aggressive towards me, even if I try and take it off him, should I be concerned or try and stop it?

Sorry for all the questions in one go, I'm not very experienced on the dog front and there didn't seem much point creating several threads!

[Schwe]

Originally Posted by shrek

I've tried puppy classes but my local trainer is of the attitude that he's never pulled a dogs head off so yanking the lead as hard as you can is the answer to most problems, maybe I wasn't pulling the right way but it didn't seem the way forward to me!

- I can get him to heal 90% of the time when on the lead, but is simply yanking the lead the answer when he pulls and ignores the command to "heel"?

While I do agree with positive reinforcement, I also believe that dogs need negative reinforcement, too. If he is not heeling correctly I would give a "pop" on the leash to get his attention back to you, and reward immediately the moment he looks at you. With some time, extend the time between his reacting properly and you rewarding. ie: At first mark the behavior with a "yes" and give him his reward right away and then release him with an "OK!" As he becomes more proficient at this, make him wait for longer periods of time before you reward and release him. Do NOT release him right after you reward, because he will begin to associate the word "yes" as a release, and not "OK!" ie: he looks up at you, "yes!" & reward, but make him maintain eye contact before you release him.

Same goes with heeling-- pop on the collar to get his attention, as soon as he looks up at you and is heeling properly "yes!" and reward. He must continue heeling, though, until you release him with an "OK!" If he looks away again give another pop (a sharp tug on the leash- not jerking him and taking his head off, just a "pop")

Originally Posted by shrek

- There are times when he can show a slightly aggressive nature, not often and its a recent thing, which most of the time I can make excuses for, ie a dogs growled at him first or tried to steel a stick off him etc. The are other times, especially when my wife walks him that he can become "over" protective when they encounter another dog. My natural reaction is probably a negative training approach, but I'm really not sure this is the way forward.

On walks, my dog is also intolerant of other strange dogs if they show the slightest dominance or any other behavior that she is unreceptive to. She also can be too interested in people we pass on walks, and sometimes people are fearful of dogs (especially since she is a bull-breed). What I do, is take her off to the side off of the sidewalk and make her sit calmly and pay attention to me until the dog or person passes. If the person would like to greet her they are welcome to, and have on many ocassions said, "my, what a well-behaved dog!" and approaced to greet her. If not, we just wait for the dog being walked or person to pass by us and continue on our way. The whole time that she is sitting calmly I am praising her with lots of "good girl" and "yes" comments, and giving her a treat if I have it with me.

Originally Posted by shrek

- Collies are by nature clever dogs, but mine seems to have a very short attention span, which I guess is natural for an 11 month old dog, but is there anything I can do to increase it over time whilst making life fun for him?

At 11 months many dogs tend to throw anything they have learned out the window and play the "I don't know what you're talking about" game Many people call it being a "teenager"

There are many eye-contact games that you can play with your dog. Being a border collie, he will often begin to watch you for your next move on his own. They're SO smart it's like "what do you want me to next" attention from them.

Some things you can do is make him maintain eye contact for a given amount of time (10-30 seconds) before you let him eat, have his toy, or throw a ball for him. Here is a link to another eye contact game: http://www.capitola.com/dogs/agility/attention.html

Originally Posted by shrek

- If I give him a bone he growls whilst he's eating it, he doesn't get aggressive towards me, even if I try and take it off him, should I be concerned or try and stop it?

I would begin trading toys. Tell him to "give" and take the toy away if he gives it up willingly say "yes!" and give him a toy of equal value in return. Or, take the toy away, if he gives it willingly say "yes!" and give him a food reward. If he does not willingly give up his toy, say "NO" in a stern but calm voice and take the toy away completely. Being a jerk does not produce pleasant results.

Later on just using the word "no" as a marker for negative behavior (same idea as "yes" for marking desired behavior-- so the dog knows exactly what action you are referring to) will be enough of a correction for the dog. It will understand that "no" means that what they are doing is wrong, and, theoretically (assuming the handler has been consistent and the dog understands) try to produce the desired behavior. This is a technique that can be applied to all aspects of training. Markers help clarify the communication between you and your dog. They understand that whatever they were doing when you say "yes" is desirable and will recieve some kind of positive reinforcement for it, and "no" means that whatever behavior they were doing at the moment "no" was said is undesired behavior, and may recieve a negative reinforcer for it.

[flyndog]

I have to put a different spin on this. I agree with much of what Schwe says. Although I agree with negative reinforcement, I disagree with the need to use leash pops. Jerking on the leash is not negative reinforcement. It is positive punishment. If the dog was choking itself on the chain by pulling but then moved closer to you to relieve the pressure on his neck, that would be negative reinforcement. Being reinforcement, he will move closer more often to keep from choking himself. Of course, we all know that in reality, this won't work. Most dogs will happily choke themselves as they pull you along. You have to get the dog's attention and get him to turn towards you or slow down enough to put slack in the leash. And not by jerking on the leash. You can get his attention by calling his name, whistling, making a kissy noise, using a toy, slaping your thigh, any number of less aversive things than a leash pop to get his attention. Although a leash pop will get his attention most of the time, it won't teach him what you want him to do. You have to create a situation that makes him put slack in the leash after you get his attention. Then you reward for slack in the leash. Dogs will easily learn to "Look" when asked without leash pops.
Leash pops and other force-based training can lead to aggression in some dogs. I certainly makes me grumpy.

I've got a different take on the word "No", too. I rarely use it. I may use a AH! AH! or hand clap as an interupter (or positive punisher depending on the view of individual dog), but I put emphasis on instructing the dog to *do* something instead of *not do* something. I guess that comes from being tired of seeing dogs who think their name is "No, bad dog".

[shrek]

Hi thanks for the pointers, sorry for the slow reply, we've been away and the dog has had his first experience of the underground in London which was quite entertaining, well for him anyway!

What you say makes sense, I am trying to be more positive, I'm just finding the heel command a hard one to implement, he's so excited every time we go for a walk (yes he does get plenty of exercise, but you can't tire him out!) that it is especially hard at the beginning to get him to stop pulling.

But hey hoe, we're trying!

[Carrie]

My Doberman heels quite nicely...still cleaning it up more, but I don't do leash pops either. I have used a treat as a lure to get him into the right position, along with patting my thigh and making happy, encouraging sounds. When he walks and is in line with my leg, he gets rewarded, praised as he's going. Don't stop to praise/treat. In the beginning, I would pop a treat very often as long as he was in line properly. Now I can space it out a little and verbally praise, but still give treats. When he lags or goes ahead, he doesn't get that. I simply show him where I want him and praise for that. A clicker, or if you don't want to use that, a word, like yes can be used to mark distinctly and positively when he is exactly in the right place. Then reward immediately.

When heeling practice is over, I say, "OK....let's go." That means he still has to walk along near by, but not in a formal heel position. It's hard for a dog to keep that up for too long.

I taught my dog, "watch me" by holding a treat by my face....eye contact = treat. He doesn't have to watch me for 30 seconds when we're heeling. I don't want him to run into something. LOL. But he looks at me quite often and then ahead again.

Attention spans are short in my dog so what I do is vary the skills quite often. I'll do the heel thing for a little while, then do a sit/stay, down/stay. Then I'll throw a stick for him or play a game, let him run around and then we'll go back to doing some skills. We're also doing long down stays while I hide and a thing where he's heeling, I keep on walking and tell him to wait and when I get ahead of him about 30 feet, I say "heel up" and he runs to catch up and then heels. The same thing we're doing with the sit while I keep going and he then catches up. There are some other things too, but this gives you an idea of what I do to keep him interested...vary the practice. But in the beginning, I didn't do too terribly many skills in one session....too confusing, too much to learn. But now at 2 years old, he can handle it. I'll train him sometimes in my yard, sometimes in my pasture and sometimes take him somewhere else....the golf course, beach... or when we're on our hikes (which are less now that it's so hot) we train right out on the trail while we're on our hike, off and on. He has fun doing that and loves to "work."

I don't tell my dog "no" or pop his leash because how do I know if he understands something, even if he has done it before. Maybe at the moment, he has forgotten. Plus, I want him to thoroughly enjoy the training time and not worry his pretty head over what might happen to him next. I want him to trust me completley and instead of avoiding a consequence, which will cause the dog to pull away a little bit with his mental involvement, space out or break momentum, I want to keep his drive up and get him to dive into the things we're working on with gusto, whether he messes up or not. He'll get it. It's up to me to keep him motivated and interested.

[shrek]

We're making some progress Carie, I seem to need to do some re-programming work though!

As soon as I get him to heel on or off the lead then offer praise, he's off like a shot! Still better than this time last week, so who knows where we'll be this time next week!

Just found out there's a man in my village who used to be a trainer with guide dogs who does home visits to help novice dog owners like myself, so hopefully I'll pick up a few training tips from him.