Disapline questions

[Buddy_DaMutt]

I have just recently learned that Buddy it terrified of the water bottle. The water bottle is a good training tool. I have used it when he gets on the couch. (we don't allow him on the couch) I tell him down- if he doesn't listen he gets a squirt. I've only used it twice. Both times he's acted very fearful. The 1st time he tried to hide behind my daughter. the 2nd time; He cowered and went as far from me as he could. Then when I put it down, I called him to me & I petted him and told him good boy.

I am not sure if I should use the water bottle with him since he is so afriad or is it that he knows he's done something he's not suposed to do? Maybe a bit of both? He's a very good boy. He seldom gets himself into trouble. I just don't want him to be fearful of me. I am not going to hurt him.

When he chews things, i give a loud clap- tell him no- and take what he has then I give him something he can chew on. Funny- but the time all that is done with- He's rolled over wanting belly rubs. Rotten boy I tell you! LOL

Thanks

[D.Schäferhund]

Hello
Only use that much that is needed obviously that bottle is too much for your dog.
I would try something different, you shouldn't pet him too soon. leave him be and think about what just happened.

With the spary bottle he just learnes anyway not to go on the couch when you are there, when you are gone he probably will be up there.

For discipline questions I suggest you read the book from the Monks of New Skete: "How to be your dogs best friend" they have a whole chapter about discipline.

[Buddy_DaMutt]

Thank you. I think the water bottle is too much for him as well. I am not sure what kind of background he has, & we feel he may have been abused at some point, or someone was way overly harsh with him. He is very submissive and listens very well 95% of the time. But the other 5% is mostly trianing issues; and we're working on that with him. He was 9 months old when he came home with us. in September. So for as long as he's been with us, he has come a very LONG way.

[D.Schäferhund]

Oh I see, you got a little trouble package there ;-) just kidding....
It is sometimes difficult to train these dogs, i can imagine that you came a long way, and plus in a difficult stage of life anyways, ninemonth. lots of developement going on there.
I hope you find the right tools to train him, sounds like a good dog.
If he listens pretty good....
and just for having him that short it sounds very nice...
I hope everything turns out well, good luck...
and keep us posted ....

[GSD]

Originally Posted by D.Schäferhund

Hello
Only use that much that is needed obviously that bottle is too much for your dog.
I would try something different, you shouldn't pet him too soon. leave him be and think about what just happened.

I'm going to disagree. not about the water bottle, I do think its too much, but as soon as he's off the couch you praise him. Dogs don't need that time to think. They are "in the present" animals. That's why marker/clicker training works so well. They associate what they are doing NOW with what happens NOW. As soon as the dog does what you want get really happy, praise and pet during the learning phase.

just another ?. You say he listens most of the time,so what do you use for him to lay down? If you're using lay down, and then tell him down for getting off the couch,he could be getting confused. I see a lot of people doing that without realizing it.

[Buddy_DaMutt]

We use lay for lay down. and down for get down. The 2 main problems we have are him getting on the couch & he chews stuff. But when I tell him no! he stops chewing. I pet him and give him a toy. He knows... sit/lay/down/wait/stay is still in progress. I can only take 2 steps away/up/the cute lil army crawl/he knows no/let's go!(on a walk)/Out (as in get out of there)/beg/come here/he is so good at feeding time. I fix his bowl he sits and waits so nicely. He doesn't mess with his food till I give it to him. He is house broken. In fact he has not gone in the house since we brought him home. He was an outside dog too.. All we have to do really is talk to him and his tail wags and he acts like he is the richest dog in the world.

So, in the short time he's been here- he's doing wonderful. When we give a command and he listens-- he looks up at us with his tail wagging.. oh I did so good-- pet me. It is the sweetest look in his eyes. He acts like the most improtant thing in his life is getting ear scratches and belly rubs from us. He will leave his toys/ bone/ what-ever (except playing with the cat) when we call him just to have a good ear scratch.

My complaints are minor. LOL I was just concerned about his fear of the water bottle more so than anything else. He still is skiddish around strangers and it takes him a while to warm up to new people. He doesn't like men. But he is very good with my hubby & my dad. So him taking a while to warm up to other men is no big deal to me. He doesn't act aggressive- he shys away and tries to hide behind me. I ignore this and go on as if there is nothing at all happeneing. Most of the time he will come sit by me. which is better than what he was doing. He was trying to run away.

If I am "working" with him on his fear of men.. I do this by walking in back and forth past a man who is doing something.. yes a strange man to Buddy- I just keep walking with him. back and forth lol. My point to that is to try to get Buddy to tolerate strange men without trying to hide. I do not care if he is friendly with everyone, that is not my goal. Tolerance is my goal.

He still shys away from my hub if he comes in the house with something-anything- in his hands. Most of the time that is a soda bottle. So we will hold soda bottles and just sit there with them. I have held them and given Buddy some pets. My hub has to put it down before Buddy will come to him. So, for now he will sit the bottle in the floor in Buddy's site, but just leave it sit there while he pets buddy. We will work up to my hub picking it up and petting Buddy- and so on. Does this help any?

Over all I am very pleased with him & very grateful that he is a part of our family.

[mulroony]

I have a pup who was abused before we got her and she had a fear of large men. (Not too big of a deal, but she lived in a fraternity...) The key for us was not setting her up to fail. keeping her out of situations where she could get scared, or someone reacting worng. We also took quite some time to just make sure she trusted us completely. When we first got her if we raised our arm she would cower so we woirked with it and now if we raise our arm she knows it is not out of hate. Keep the training completely postitive. I can not stress this enough. I have to admit I would get steamed sometimes and raise my voice, each time I did that I noticed it was like taking 3 steps back in her training. When you are getting him used to men, don't do it at first at your property. He will feel more territorial there and probably be more aggressive than if you are out and about. Then try to get him to trust one man, then another, etc. If the water bottle is too much, you might want to try a key chain. Whenever he does something wrong drop it on the floor near him. It startles them, but most of them do not mind it as much as the water bottle. If you want him to like you hubby more find something that buddy really likes, and only allow your hubby to do it with him regularly. It should help. Good luck.

[Raised By Wolves]

I wouldn't use a water bottle if your dog is acting fearful of it. I personally would never use one anyway. You do want a dog to obey, but it should be out of respect, not fear. I would recommend keeping a leash on him, and use the command "off" during these situations. Keep calm and in control. Your dog will be more likely to obey if you don't use an angry tone or have a cross look on your face. Some dog's will actually "freeze" in place, and not be able to comply quickly, if they feel threatened.

I agree that a dog should recieve praise once they get off the couch, UNLESS they are in a fearful state of mind or are acting flighty and sulky. Sometimes dogs do need a bit of a "cool down and relax" period, after they have been disaplined. It's a tricky call, but it's mostly about timing the praise in certain situations. If I saw this in person, I would have a better "take", on what's going on.

Is he afraid of the hose or water in general?

[GSD]

If he's that fearful of a water bottle, get rid of it, sensitizing him to it isn't going to do any good, if you use it to discipline him and he fears it again, its one step forward, too many steps back all the time. Find a new way to do it. I'd also change the down command to off. Lay down and down, aren't much different to a dog. If I said down to my dog when she was on the couch, she'd lay down, and then correcting her for not getting off the couch would confuse her, because she's "down" in her mind, when what I really meant was "off".

[flyndog]

I agree with GSD and RBW. Good advice. I would just add that
Buddy's learned in the past that people carry things in their hands that are bad for dogs. We know he's afraid of soda bottles. You are trying to desensitize him to them. But by squirting him with a bottle, you are reinforcing that fear that 1) bottles are scary and 2) things in people's hands are bad for dogs.

[Buddy_DaMutt]

Thanks everyone. I will try these suggestions. I don't think it will take him a long time to pick things up. He learns so fast. Except stay. But, the problems with that is that he follows me everywhere. I use alright as his release word. Should this be used as a release for everything or just stay?

[D.Schäferhund]

Originally Posted by Raised By Wolves

I
I agree that a dog should recieve praise once they get off the couch, UNLESS they are in a fearful state of mind or are acting flighty and sulky. Sometimes dogs do need a bit of a "cool down and relax" period, after they have been disaplined. It's a tricky call, but it's mostly about timing the praise in certain situations. If I saw this in person, I would have a better "take", on what's going on.

Yes thats what i meant you said it much better, maybe I should just took more time to write...

[Raised By Wolves]

Originally Posted by D.Schäferhund

Yes thats what i meant you said it much better, maybe I should just took more time to write...

Kat,

I know, this is what you meant. You're one sharp "cookie"!

[Buddy_DaMutt]

LOL well at least I am not the only one who sometimes doesn't get in what I meant to say. LOL

Thanks everyone.

[GSD]

Originally Posted by Buddy_DaMutt

Thanks everyone. I will try these suggestions. I don't think it will take him a long time to pick things up. He learns so fast. Except stay. But, the problems with that is that he follows me everywhere. I use alright as his release word. Should this be used as a release for everything or just stay?

I use Ok or yes as my release words, mostly because I always used Ok before, but then I started marker training and decided against using Ok because I used it for everything and it wouldn't be a very good marker. Mostly because I couldn't keep it straight in my head. I think using "alright" for his release word for everything is fine, because it just means the sit, the down, the heeling, whatever is over and he is free from that command.