Smoke and you may be fired!

Giny · 01-12-2006, 04:45 PM

I was listening to the news today and overheard something that was astonishing. The report was about employers who fired employees who smoked. They give their workers random nicotine drug testing and failing or refusing the test can lead to them being fired from the company. Apparently it’s legal in 30 states for an employer to fire a worker for smoking, not just at work but on their leisure time also. I was amazed to hear that. I’m not a smoker but my husband is. I have mixed emotion about this, on one hand it can help people quite this unhealthy addiction and on the other hand it’s a serious infringement on our private lives. What’s next, mandatory weighing for over eating, alcohol testing?

What is your thought on this?

Here a news coverage about one company, Scotts Miracle-Gro. Co.
http://www.medgadget.com/archives/20...ng_down_o.html

Another from a health care company.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6870458

Tiffany0204 · 01-12-2006, 04:50 PM

Absolutly not.

Now I don't agree with smoking. But that's a person's personal choice. Work ethic has nothing to do with it! Now, if it was a smoke-free building, and they were smoking inside... then sure yeah, that's not right.

But smoking and work are two compleatly different things. Ugh, this is getting kinda out of control, don't you think????

Edit: Although I guess I can understand the incentive because of their rising medical costs, that's just too bad. To try and fire smokers though... just to save a buck... wow. I'll be the first to advocate not smoking, but seriously... this really has me bothered. What next? Firing employees who children have special needs because their medical costs are high?

Okay, I know I'm being a tad bit dramatic... but I'm sure you catch my drift.

Giny · 01-12-2006, 04:57 PM

I know exactly what you mean, Tiffany. I've been bothered by it all day. My husbands out of town but we had a good discussion about it over the phone. To make matters worse I had an automated phone survey tonight on whether employers have the rights to fire employees over smoking. It was so strange!

***Cassiepeia*** · 01-12-2006, 05:01 PM

I don't smoke either (quit quite a few years ago), but this is going too far. I have no problem with people banning smoking from the work place but FIRING someone because they smoked is outrageous!

It's not an illegal drug and it doesn't effect the way people do their work. Alcohol I could understand, I mean if someone turned up drunk to work..then of course. But not smoking.

Cass.

Giny · 01-12-2006, 05:04 PM

By alcohol testing I meant for the ones who drink during their leisure time also. Not during work time. Just wanted to clear up what I meant.

calgal · 01-12-2006, 05:27 PM

Being fired because you smoke is nothing new. This has been happening for years, but they drum up some other excuse to fire you.
Back in 1986 I worked at the Hilton Hotel. The general manager was a real bitch. She made sure everyone that smoked was fired, but made up different excuses. I've had friends who were fired from different places and the only thing they could think of for it was that they smoke.

Leon · 01-12-2006, 05:58 PM

This is insane! Doesn't the constitution protect private freedoms?

KennelMom · 01-12-2006, 06:46 PM

Just as companies can discriminate against people with bad driving records if the job requires them to drive a company vehicle (insurance and all) I think its perfectly OK for them to discriminate against people who smoke IF they elect to be on the company health insurance. If an employees wants to go out and pay for their own insurance, then they should be able to smoke 'em if they got 'em.

Here's my question though...if they are doing random nicotine tests, how do they know that the person is actually smoking and not chewing nicotine gum or wearing a nicotine patch? Seems that would eliminate the health risks from cigarette smoking like emphysema, lung/mouth/throat cancer, COPD and all the other nasties that smokers can get.

If you don't like a company's no-smoking policy then you can always go work for a company that doesn't have one!

p.s. I do smoke (well, every other day I'm quitting...but you know how that is

)

kazkirkpatrick · 01-12-2006, 06:54 PM

The Fedex man who picks up packages from work OBVIOUSLY smokes. He smells GOD AWFUL. I can see how smoking during work hours cannot be tolerated if it results in your employees smelling like poo and having your customers be disgusted by it. But not being allowed to smoke while you arent at work, thats ridiculous. Dont come to work drunk and smelling like an ashtray and everything will be fine and dandy.

Giny · 01-12-2006, 08:20 PM

Edit to fix* Apparently it’s illegal in 30 states for an employer to fire a worker for smoking......
Not legal as posted on my orignial post. Sorry for the mistake.

Dang, I really suck at this debate thing. No wonder I don't participate in them much. "lol"

RIo&Nickysmommy · 01-12-2006, 09:03 PM

I smoke and have been a nurse just retired for 20 years. I did not smoke ever at work or before since smoke smells really bother alot of people. But what I did on my own time was my own choice. I think testing is ridiculous. I know more people that pop pills they go from doctor to doctor take valium , xanax and not that anything wrong with that but I feel they are more of a liability for a company then a smoker. The owners who dont want smokers are people who hate smoking guess its their choice but I think people should be notified before hired. But if you are going to stop smokers stop drinking.. drunken drivers kill so many innocent people and it destroys their body too. The way the world is today everybody has their issues thats their choice. My grandma lived to and old age and during her time everyone smoked drank and did everything around everyone and they are fine. They ate real butter, fried foods and still lived long. So health nuts to me can not hire somone thats fine. Yes I do know the bad affects of smoking. With all that said I too have been working on quiting too.!

Just dont like people to dictate what I can do.
Rio&Nickysmommy

Barrett · 01-12-2006, 09:31 PM

Alaska Airlines has been a smoke free company for years. They do a nicotine test for prehire and I think they do random testing. It asks if you smoke on the job application and if you say yes they won't hire you, if you say no they test you anyway so it's no point to lie. They can even get around saying it's just second hand smoke because they test for a certain amount in your system.

Shalva · 01-13-2006, 05:57 AM

Employee at will is the term and that means you are an employee at hte will of the employer so they can let you go at any time for whatever ..... the fact is that with health insurance companies now raising rates at an astonishing rate and basing an employers entire cost on the risks of individual employees, I am not surprised that this hasnt happened before.....

There is part of me that says its ridiculous, but there is part of me that says an employer has the right to do what he or she can to keep their costs down because then they may pass that along to me. I wonder how many people can't afford to buy into their companies health plan.... probably alot. The other issue is that people don't leave their smoking home....from my experience smokers take more breaks to go and have a cigarette for longer periods of time, they also reak when they come home because the smell of that smoke gets into hair and fingernails...... and while the smoker themselves can no longer smell it because they are used to the smell, it does smell to those that don't smoke. The smell of stale smoke is awful especially for people who are taking chemo ..... or have asthma or other health related problems.

So while I understand the scream about infringing on rights, I can also see why employers are doing this.
S

D.Schäferhund · 01-13-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

This is insane! Doesn't the constitution protect private freedoms?

As far as I understood it, after 9/11 we (well the citizens, just feel concerned, too eventhough I am not) don't have much rights anymore...
the constitution and lost almost all purpose, it is not that legal binding anymore like it was supposed to be....
It is not just housesearches without a warrent it is much more then that...
There is no more privacy really...
We saw it on a report, and it was shocking almost all basic rights are waived!!!
I guess they could do that I they wanted too.

Tiffany0204 · 01-13-2006, 08:41 AM

I say instead of taking them to task for smoking, why not up the ante for them to quit? Like lower premiums, win a vacation, things like that. It worked for me. I'm an avid gamer... and after smoking for 10 + years I didn't think I'd ever quit, but my brother promised me that he'd buy me a video game of my choice for every year that I go smoke free. I quit, and now have 3 "free" video games in my collection!

I see lots of phamphlets encouraging people to quit smoking so they can possibly win a new car, or whatnot. I dunno, I mean I agree... all those medical bills are senseless when all they'd have to do is 'quit'... but since being a reformed smoker, I can still remember just how protective I was of it. When I got sick, it wasn't the cigarettes, it was the change in weather! Or... my really shoddy immune system... I was deathly ill at least 5 times a year while I smoked, and in the past 3 years I've been sick like that twice!

I just think that it's the same as training a dog... positive reinforcement goes alot father rather than being mean or whatever.

JMO

01-12-2006, 04:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
Giny poodlez Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,010 Rep Power: 103	Smoke and you may be fired! I was listening to the news today and overheard something that was astonishing. The report was about employers who fired employees who smoked. They give their workers random nicotine drug testing and failing or refusing the test can lead to them being fired from the company. Apparently it’s legal in 30 states for an employer to fire a worker for smoking, not just at work but on their leisure time also. I was amazed to hear that. I’m not a smoker but my husband is. I have mixed emotion about this, on one hand it can help people quite this unhealthy addiction and on the other hand it’s a serious infringement on our private lives. What’s next, mandatory weighing for over eating, alcohol testing? What is your thought on this? Here a news coverage about one company, Scotts Miracle-Gro. Co. http://www.medgadget.com/archives/20...ng_down_o.html Another from a health care company. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6870458
	__________________ Poodle Rescue of New England

01-12-2006, 04:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tiffany0204 >->->->-<-<-<-< Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Barrie, ON - Canada! Posts: 859 Rep Power: 85	Absolutly not. Now I don't agree with smoking. But that's a person's personal choice. Work ethic has nothing to do with it! Now, if it was a smoke-free building, and they were smoking inside... then sure yeah, that's not right. But smoking and work are two compleatly different things. Ugh, this is getting kinda out of control, don't you think???? Edit: Although I guess I can understand the incentive because of their rising medical costs, that's just too bad. To try and fire smokers though... just to save a buck... wow. I'll be the first to advocate not smoking, but seriously... this really has me bothered. What next? Firing employees who children have special needs because their medical costs are high? Okay, I know I'm being a tad bit dramatic... but I'm sure you catch my drift.
	__________________ Follow along as I search for my Birth Mother! My Adoption Blog

01-12-2006, 04:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Giny poodlez Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,010 Rep Power: 103	I know exactly what you mean, Tiffany. I've been bothered by it all day. My husbands out of town but we had a good discussion about it over the phone. To make matters worse I had an automated phone survey tonight on whether employers have the rights to fire employees over smoking. It was so strange!
	__________________ Poodle Rescue of New England

01-12-2006, 05:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Cassiepeia* Chihuahua Mum Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 8,238 Blog Entries: 9 Rep Power: 278	I don't smoke either (quit quite a few years ago), but this is going too far. I have no problem with people banning smoking from the work place but FIRING someone because they smoked is outrageous! It's not an illegal drug and it doesn't effect the way people do their work. Alcohol I could understand, I mean if someone turned up drunk to work..then of course. But not smoking. Cass.
	__________________ Say NO! to animals in pet shops. Rescue a friend instead: Petfinder Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Book Club ~ Blogs ~ Art Classes ~ Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

01-12-2006, 05:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Giny poodlez Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,010 Rep Power: 103	By alcohol testing I meant for the ones who drink during their leisure time also. Not during work time. Just wanted to clear up what I meant.
	__________________ Poodle Rescue of New England

01-12-2006, 05:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
calgal My Yorkster kids! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: central ca. coast Posts: 6,586 Rep Power: 221	Being fired because you smoke is nothing new. This has been happening for years, but they drum up some other excuse to fire you. Back in 1986 I worked at the Hilton Hotel. The general manager was a real bitch. She made sure everyone that smoked was fired, but made up different excuses. I've had friends who were fired from different places and the only thing they could think of for it was that they smoke.

01-12-2006, 05:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
Leon Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 175 Rep Power: 66	This is insane! Doesn't the constitution protect private freedoms?
Leon Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 175 Rep Power: 66

01-12-2006, 06:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
KennelMom Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piedmont, SC Posts: 658 Rep Power: 83	Just as companies can discriminate against people with bad driving records if the job requires them to drive a company vehicle (insurance and all) I think its perfectly OK for them to discriminate against people who smoke IF they elect to be on the company health insurance. If an employees wants to go out and pay for their own insurance, then they should be able to smoke 'em if they got 'em. Here's my question though...if they are doing random nicotine tests, how do they know that the person is actually smoking and not chewing nicotine gum or wearing a nicotine patch? Seems that would eliminate the health risks from cigarette smoking like emphysema, lung/mouth/throat cancer, COPD and all the other nasties that smokers can get. If you don't like a company's no-smoking policy then you can always go work for a company that doesn't have one! p.s. I do smoke (well, every other day I'm quitting...but you know how that is )
	__________________ Heather and the hounds Visit our pack at GreyhoundFreaks.com In loving memory of my Bridge Babies: Star, Annie, Casino, Erin ~ kitty Simon ~ fosters Dagger and DV

01-12-2006, 06:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
kazkirkpatrick Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 464 Rep Power: 89	The Fedex man who picks up packages from work OBVIOUSLY smokes. He smells GOD AWFUL. I can see how smoking during work hours cannot be tolerated if it results in your employees smelling like poo and having your customers be disgusted by it. But not being allowed to smoke while you arent at work, thats ridiculous. Dont come to work drunk and smelling like an ashtray and everything will be fine and dandy.
	__________________

01-12-2006, 08:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
Giny poodlez Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,010 Rep Power: 103	Edit to fix* Apparently it’s illegal in 30 states for an employer to fire a worker for smoking...... Not legal as posted on my orignial post. Sorry for the mistake. Dang, I really suck at this debate thing. No wonder I don't participate in them much. "lol"
	__________________ Poodle Rescue of New England Last edited by Giny : 01-12-2006 at 08:32 PM.

01-12-2006, 09:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
RIo&Nickysmommy Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NY Long Island Posts: 256 Rep Power: 60	I smoke and have been a nurse just retired for 20 years. I did not smoke ever at work or before since smoke smells really bother alot of people. But what I did on my own time was my own choice. I think testing is ridiculous. I know more people that pop pills they go from doctor to doctor take valium , xanax and not that anything wrong with that but I feel they are more of a liability for a company then a smoker. The owners who dont want smokers are people who hate smoking guess its their choice but I think people should be notified before hired. But if you are going to stop smokers stop drinking.. drunken drivers kill so many innocent people and it destroys their body too. The way the world is today everybody has their issues thats their choice. My grandma lived to and old age and during her time everyone smoked drank and did everything around everyone and they are fine. They ate real butter, fried foods and still lived long. So health nuts to me can not hire somone thats fine. Yes I do know the bad affects of smoking. With all that said I too have been working on quiting too.! Just dont like people to dictate what I can do. Rio&Nickysmommy

01-12-2006, 09:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Barrett dachshund Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Washington Posts: 2,758 Rep Power: 152	Alaska Airlines has been a smoke free company for years. They do a nicotine test for prehire and I think they do random testing. It asks if you smoke on the job application and if you say yes they won't hire you, if you say no they test you anyway so it's no point to lie. They can even get around saying it's just second hand smoke because they test for a certain amount in your system.

01-13-2006, 05:57 AM	#13 (permalink)
Shalva Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: here...pointing to palm of right hand Posts: 442 Rep Power: 0	Employee at will is the term and that means you are an employee at hte will of the employer so they can let you go at any time for whatever ..... the fact is that with health insurance companies now raising rates at an astonishing rate and basing an employers entire cost on the risks of individual employees, I am not surprised that this hasnt happened before..... There is part of me that says its ridiculous, but there is part of me that says an employer has the right to do what he or she can to keep their costs down because then they may pass that along to me. I wonder how many people can't afford to buy into their companies health plan.... probably alot. The other issue is that people don't leave their smoking home....from my experience smokers take more breaks to go and have a cigarette for longer periods of time, they also reak when they come home because the smell of that smoke gets into hair and fingernails...... and while the smoker themselves can no longer smell it because they are used to the smell, it does smell to those that don't smoke. The smell of stale smoke is awful especially for people who are taking chemo ..... or have asthma or other health related problems. So while I understand the scream about infringing on rights, I can also see why employers are doing this. S

01-13-2006, 08:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
Tiffany0204 >->->->-<-<-<-< Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Barrie, ON - Canada! Posts: 859 Rep Power: 85	I say instead of taking them to task for smoking, why not up the ante for them to quit? Like lower premiums, win a vacation, things like that. It worked for me. I'm an avid gamer... and after smoking for 10 + years I didn't think I'd ever quit, but my brother promised me that he'd buy me a video game of my choice for every year that I go smoke free. I quit, and now have 3 "free" video games in my collection! I see lots of phamphlets encouraging people to quit smoking so they can possibly win a new car, or whatnot. I dunno, I mean I agree... all those medical bills are senseless when all they'd have to do is 'quit'... but since being a reformed smoker, I can still remember just how protective I was of it. When I got sick, it wasn't the cigarettes, it was the change in weather! Or... my really shoddy immune system... I was deathly ill at least 5 times a year while I smoked, and in the past 3 years I've been sick like that twice! I just think that it's the same as training a dog... positive reinforcement goes alot father rather than being mean or whatever. JMO
	__________________ Follow along as I search for my Birth Mother! My Adoption Blog

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