SHOWING FIXED Dogs, Why Not?

[shandoggy1]

I'm not sure where to put this thread but I figured maybe it was more of a debate then anything. I'm wondering why the AKC doesn't have a conformation ring for altered dogs just for the fun of showing off your purebred. I know lots of people who have a purebred who could have been show dogs but were sold as pets, but wouldn't it be fun to be able to strut your dog around a ring and win a ribbon? I mean, not every dog has to be bred and just because they are less a part doesn't make them any less of a dog. Now, I have a persian cat who is from a long history of champions in her background and when I bought her I was told that I could "premiere" show her when she was spayed just for fun. Don't they have anything like that for dogs? I know the purpose of showing dogs but I just think an altered conformation class would be fun as well

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

I think the AKC states their reasoning very well. " Dog shows, or "conformation" events, are the signature events of the AKC. They concentrate on the distinctive features of purebred dogs and help to preserve these characteristics by providing a forum at which to evaluate breeding stock."

However, neutered dogs and spayed bitches can and are shown in stud dog, brood bitch, veterans and junior showmanship. I think that many people miss the reasoning behind why conformation shows are held, for that matter I feel that many conformation breeders miss the point as well, it was never meant to be a beauty contest but simply a way to evaluate breeding stock. Judging is supposed to be about finding those dogs that most closely fit the standard set for their breed as a way to preserve those characteristics for future generations.

What purpose would it serve to allow spayed / neutered animals into the rings? To me it wouldn't serve any other purpose than that of a beauty contest and while that might be fun I'm just not sure how it would help our breeds. If held on a large scale wouldn't it become just another way to make a breed more visable to the public in a bad way? For instance, if the winning dog or bitch was seen often on television etc.... wouldn't it have the same ill effect that many of our movies have had, like that of 101 Dalmations, how after the movie everyone had to have one regardless of what the actual breed required or how it may or may not fit into someone's lifestyle?

Please don't misunderstand, I have nothing at all against those that have spayed / neutered pets nor do I claim that my still intact conformation dogs are any better than someone's pet. That couldn't be further from the truth, I've seen many a spayed / neutered animal that is excellent conformationally and I advocate spay and neuter for any animal not being shown in the rings but again, I fail to see where showing animals no longer intact would serve much of a purpose.

One area where I do believe spayed / neutered pets could and should be shown and serve a purpose is breed recognition for the public. Here locally we have one of these shows every year, all pure bred dogs are welcome to enter and their time in the ring used to educate any and all that want to view them and listen. We describe the breed, their characteristics, overall temperament and exactly what that specific breed requires in a home / person's lifestyle to be a happy member of their family. We even allow the public to judge each breed and pick a winner. After viewing the dogs and learning what they should be like the public then decides which of those dogs entered meets their breeds description the best.

[bigdoglover]

I agree. I think it would get the dogs out in the public (socialization) and the owners could have fun as well. It doesn't have to be anything terribly formal, like you said, something for fun.

On the flip side of that, as you said, the purpose of showing is to let the world know that you have the best specimen of your breed. So some might think that if you were sold a "pet quality" dog, that obviously something was not quite right, or it wasn't good enough to be in the ring.

BUT....if it was something just for fun, and not so formal, with other catagories (talents, etc) it would also promote the breed and the breeder.

[mrsgrubby]

Hmmm. Crossfire's post was excellent and made alot of sense.

I think if I was going to compete it would be on obedience, agility, or tracking, and it is my understanding you can do that with an altered dog.

the only thing you can't do is conformation. Which Crossfire is right, is supposed to help breeders, so it would just be a beauty contest. But it would still be fun to do. It would make me proud if my girl won.

[ewarp]

Just a beauty contest, but kinda fun all the same.

If nothing else, it would give the breeder who bred your dog something to brag about... "Remember that cute little black and white pup from that litter 2 years ago? Guess who just won in the pet conformation class!"

Maybe it would give the breeder a bit more brag power and make their pups a bit more desirable?

[Raised By Wolves]

Crossfire's post pretty much says it all.

[britishbandit]

Originally Posted by Raised By Wolves

Crossfire's post pretty much says it all.

Agreed!

[WolfRyder]

I'd rather show what my dogs can "do". But then, I never intended to breed any of my animals

I can understand about the "breeding stock" situation. It's like cattle shows but instead of people going from animal to animal, the animals are led around for everyone to watch (understandable due to size, energy and needing to see how well they move).

If I where looking for a specific breed and I wanted a pet/family quality animal, I would probably find a show to observe temprement, how the dog/bitch looks and talk with different breeders. I would say the shows are a benefit to other breeders and those who want specific qualitites in a pet.

[PawNclaws]

I agree, what Crossfire said made alot of sence.. I think it would be fun if a club did a Pet Show, at a local park or some thing.. But I wouldn't want AKC to host Pet shows like that on air, I belive it would put out a message that just breeding "pet" quality dogs is ok...which it isn't... But like I said, if a club of some sort hosted a pet show I think it would be alot of fun just seeing people out enjoying their purebred dogs- and having some one discribe the breed, what training is needed, life style, etc (as Crossfire stated one pet show does) would make it a great educational expr. for people as well- I belive that is a terrific idea.

[Leon]

Perhaps evaluating relatives (e.g. littermates) of a dog that is being shown could reveal more about its own genetic merit.

[protodog]

I think having conformation events for spayed/neutered dogs is a great idea, but the events should be separate from regular conformation. The dogs would be able to earn a championship, but it wouldn't be a "Ch"; it would be called something else.

When people get involved in formal activities with their dogs, they are more likely to become and to remain responsible dog owners because taking classes and participating in events helps to facilitate the bonding process and because classes include a great deal of dog education for the owner. So, I see having people who own spayed/neutered dogs taking conformation classes as a plus for the future of their dogs.

Granted, there are other activities in which altered dogs can participate, but many dog owners don't know about obedience and rally because these events are never on television. Also, not all dogs are built for agility. But, everybody knows about conformation. Thus, I see some sort of altered conformation event as a chance to increase the scope of dog education that is reaching the general public. And, let's face it, we need more dog education; just look at the number of dogs purchased in pet stores and the popularity of puggles.

If the dogs in the altered conformation event were judged by the same standard as regular conformation (minus being intact), the dogs most likely to win would be those bred by responsible breeders, not poorly bred dogs that barely resemble the breed they are supposed to be. Therefore, I don't think such an event would end up promoting irresponsible breeding because the poorly bred dogs wouldn't be the winners.

Ultimatley, an altered conformation event could be constructed in such a way that it would not threaten the integrity of regular conformation but could help educate a larger number of dog owners and also be a whole lot of fun.

[poodlesmom]

Originally Posted by protodog

If the dogs in the altered conformation event were judged by the same standard as regular conformation (minus being intact), the dogs most likely to win would be those bred by responsible breeders, not poorly bred dogs that barely resemble the breed they are supposed to be. Therefore, I don't think such an event would end up promoting irresponsible breeding because the poorly bred dogs wouldn't be the winners.

Ultimatley, an altered conformation event could be constructed in such a way that it would not threaten the integrity of regular conformation but could help educate a larger number of dog owners and also be a whole lot of fun.

I agree that fun events such as this would be ideal. However, the one thing that I think should be required is that each entry has proof of spay/neuter so as not to give any BYB who knows they don't have a chance at an AKC purebred event any chance whatsoever to promote their dogs or find potential donors for future litters from the dogs of those who don't have their dogs spayed/neutered just because maybe someday......

It would also give the typical pet owner a better chance to understand much more about particular breeds on a closer level than just watching a show on TV. The majority of pet owners never go to an actual sanctioned conformation show but they would be more apt to go when it is in their area.

I think it could be a great source of income for local training & breed clubs and some of the funds could be earmarked for rescue groups. It would be a "win/win" situation: money for the club, money for the rescue group, fun for the participants and spectators and the potential adoptions of available rescues. Along with the spayed/neutered conformation they could even have obedience, rally and agility for those participants as well as those with mixed breeds. This would really raise the participation.

[protodog]

Originally Posted by poodlesmom

However, the one thing that I think should be required is that each entry has proof of spay/neuter so as not to give any BYB who knows they don't have a chance at an AKC purebred event any chance whatsoever to promote their dogs or find potential donors for future litters from the dogs of those who don't have their dogs spayed/neutered just because maybe someday......

I completely agree. The event would be for spayed/neutered dogs ONLY.

[linnie]

i would love to see it happen simply because I own a purebred bloodline tibbie and although she is spayed her lineage is impeccable
i can see the point that the breeders are making but many of us that would just love to do it for the simple pleasure of showing our animal.
Mind you as Isabella doesnt do what she is told I doubt I would get far
Sometimes its nice to be able do something simply for the pleasure

[shandoggy1]

Originally Posted by linnie

i would love to see it happen simply because I own a purebred bloodline tibbie and although she is spayed her lineage is impeccable
i can see the point that the breeders are making but many of us that would just love to do it for the simple pleasure of showing our animal.
Mind you as Isabella doesnt do what she is told I doubt I would get far
Sometimes its nice to be able do something simply for the pleasure

I agree Linnie, My Cai is from an excellent bloodline and he has beautiful conformation although I still may show him and he is unaltered for now. But if he does end up getting fixed I would still like the chance to show him off at maybe an ACD all breed event. I'm not saying this type of showing should be televised or anything like on the Eukanuba cup LOL! But just a fun event for anyone who wants to promote their breed in a positive light and also give the breeder some props. And Crossfire, great post *smiles* you did pretty much say everything. I thought of this thread after the topic of conversation came up on another forum and wanted to see how everyone felt about it on GP. I don't think that showing s/n pets would have any ill affect on any breed in the same way a movie does. I think not only would it promote spaying and neutering but that people can still show there dogs less a part without adding more pups to the world. And Crossfire, isn't showing dogs one big beauty contest whether they are fixed or not? LOL! I'm not trying to cause trouble in saying this, just being funny. LOL! *wink*