Are today's dogs too humanized?

[schnzrluv]

The dominance post really got me thinking. Are we humans changing the dog species? When I was a kid we went to the local "pound" to find a puppy. We came home with a bouncy GSD mix with big floppy ears that we named Rusty. Now I am all grown up and have my own dog. I did loads of research before getting her, and this is what I've learned:

-Dogs are pack animals, they must be able to live inside and be a part of the family. Rusty was only allowed inside if the weather was bad. Even then he hated comming inside, whinning at the door until he could go back out. He had a dog house that he was very fond of.

-It is a must to establish a pack order. Your dog needs to know that you are the boss. Positive reinforcement, cesar's way, whatever you choose you must be consistant in your training. Rusty knew how to sit, shake, and roll over for a tummy scratch. We never had any problems with aggression, stubborness, ect. He however would defend us to his death if need be.

-Your dog must be contained by a fence or leash unless you spend lots of time training recall. Rusty never stepped a paw out of our yard, unless it was to follow us on a walk or bike ride.

-Your dog must go to the vet for regular check ups. Your dog needs to be spayed/neutered to avoid cancer and other health issues. Your dog should have it's teeth brushed regularly, and go in for a cleaning every 3 years. Rusty went to the vet once a year for shots and a general health check. He was fixed to avoid him getting the neighbors poodle pregnant. He never had his teeth brushed. let alone cleaned at the vet. When he passed, he still had all his teeth and they were in good shape.

-You should feed your dog the best food you can afford, supermarket food is terrible and will not provide the proper nutrition your dog needs. Rusty ate purina in the big green bag his entire life. The only exeption being when he was a puppy, when he ate purina puppy chow.

Rusty passed away at the old age of 16. He lived a good life with a family that loved him dearly, kept food in his belly and a roof over his head. Was he some kind of super dog? How did he get along without a pet bed? How did he live so long on such a crappy food? He must have been just crushed that his only toys were sticks and old tennis balls. How come he never ran off, attacked another dog, or mauled a kid? How did he manage to live as long as he did, and have no issues without any formal training?

For the most part my Chloe lives a better life than me. I spend more money on vet bills, dog beds, sweaters for winter, grooming, toys and professional training than I do on doctor bills, my bed, clothes and even hair cuts! What the heck happened? Are we humans making today's dog more domesticated and humanized by doing all this? I'd love to hear what you all think.

Lindsey

[RIo&Nickysmommy]

I read your post and what you wrote is very very true. Mind you I am in the business of selling pampered puppy stuff clothes and all kinds of things. But I too had dogs who lived their entire life eating Alpo dog food and never had a pet bed and I dont even remeber many toys or any sorts right now. Yes and they lived and where fine.
Now my two dogs have 4 beds in my house besides mine of course. I only give them bottled water. Exspensive dog food. Grooming. Frequent vet bills. You come in my house Rio is laying across one couch and Nicky across the other and they are not up to move unless told so. Which we usally dont do. Yes we have humanized them to some extent. But my dogs do know who is Alpha that me mommy- not Dady he talks and they whistle in the air - like hey did you hear something Actually not that bad but hubby needs major training. But my dogs are good boys. But I do make sure Mommy is the leader of the pack no exceptions.
RUles in my house
Thou Shalt not growl or yell at Mommy
Thou Shall listen and come when Mommy calls
Otherwise have fun and be happy.
RIo&Nickysmommy

[Carrie]

Are we humans changing the dog species?

Well, that's an interesting concept. We changed them thousands of years ago and they changed themselves too as they became domesticated. I'm quite sure that with more changes, they can evolve even more in unspecified directions.

They were once more like wolves or wild dogs and now they are an animal who, unlike wolves or wild dogs recongnize certain human communication, ways and body language....example: when we point to something dogs follow visually. Wolves do not. Domestic dog pups will immediately associate food on a kitchen counter with humans, will gaze at us and back at the food. Wolf pups, even raised from pups inside will not. Behaviorally, they are very different. They're both social animals but domestic dogs have branched off into another direction over a long time.

I have no doubt that if they are interacted with in more extreme ways...more "human" ways that they could evolve to a state where they're modifying instincts, physical as well as behavioral traits.

(I had two dogs as a kid who lived on Purina Dog Chow and Gravy Train...one lived to be 18 and the other 16. LOL)

I think with the small gene pool phenomenon (that's a whole other story) the defects and weaknesses caused by it... that could be one of many factors or facets which could cause some significant evolutionary changes.

[Leon]

Interesting post Carrie. Like you said, it's been thousands of years since we humans changed a wild animal into a companion that posseses certain human qualities. Perhaps the dogs of a few thousand years into the future will be even more like us. Evolved, intelligent canines; what we would call Canis Sapiens.

It sounds sci-fi, but given how we anthropomorphise dogs in modern society, how our relationship with them is becoming more peer-like, and how we have been shaping canine nature throughout history to fit our purposes, I think this next step in evolution might be destiny.

[rednosered]

I also had a Collie growing up . She never had a fence ,never left the property unless it was to follow me on a walk ,ate table scraps her whole life , and lived out side ,and lived to the very old age of 18. She was extremely healthy.I think dogs today are a bit to humanized and pampered. I'm guilty of spoiling my dogs to a degree. They sleep with me ,and live in the house. I feel this is the way they should be treated. I love their attention abd spending time with them.

[calgal]

We are more educated these day thank goodness. Nutrition is one area most have learned to be important. Next we are finding those annual shots are killing our dogs. If you remember, many years ago they were not given every year if any at all, and is why they lived longer probably.

[linnie]

Although we are humanising our pets more these days I think it is for the better as they have a better quality of life.
I dont see anything wrong with it, my dogs have always been an important part of our family and I enjoy the closeness we share.
You speak of your dog rusty who was from the pound but although you say he didnt have the life your dogs do now I am sure the love was the same
When I was a young girl dogs were treated for the most part horribly ( not mine of course )
So I look on it as progress.
I would rather see a spoilt pooch than an abused one

[D.Schäferhund]

Hello
Yeah we humanizes them more and we changed our livestyle alot and the dogs have problems with that , they don't get the proper socialisation anymore, because they don't roam because so many people are detached from a natural lifestyle...

i grew up with roaming dogs in the villiage, they got socialized on theyr own, if dogs got in fights nobody called a layer, well they got patched up and it was ok, no official body was involved...

It is like with kids they don't grow up naturally anymore... same with dogs!!!
So we have to go to puppyclass to get proper socialisation, and where do dogs really have job these days so we go sporting with them.

concerning the pampering with beds and stuff, probably because we can, and it is availlable...
In Germany it didn't used to be and still is not that extreme with the doggycloth and we concentrate more on training articles. but they are availlable, and that is why we buy and it is just there nd it looks cute and we fullfill our needs to make us happy, the dogs might be ahppy with just a stick and a ball, too.
because what they really want is beeing in action with you, if it is a highspeed superdupy playtoy or just a tennisball. they don't care...

I think mainly our livestyle changed and so we have to find other things, we got wealthy and we do it beacuse we can...

doesn't always mean we are happier then others, though....

[Carrie]

If pampering is keeping dogs with us, whether we're inside or out, including them more as part of the family, that's a good thing. If pampering means not giving them guidance, letting them raise themselves, letting them have their own way about everything, then that's not good for them. Keeping them well nourished and comfortable is a good thing. Humanizing them as far as thinking that they think just like we do, that they know right from wrong is where I have the biggest problem with what I see. I think that's always been a common thing with people. It's natural to project our thinking onto them. The more education, the better for them.

As far as evolution goes, I'm sure there will be some changes in thousands of years from now, what degree and what type is anybody's guess.

[CTDog]

Originally Posted by Carrie

Humanizing them as far as thinking that they think just like we do, that they know right from wrong is where I have the biggest problem with what I see. I think that's always been a common thing with people. It's natural to project our thinking onto them. The more education, the better for them.

Very true!

[shandoggy1]

I agree with Calgal Though we do KNOW ALOT more about nutrition and things I think we as pet parents go WAY overboard at times. I had dogs like Carrie said that lived to be 16,17,& 18 years old eating purina dog chow to . And they roamed the streets and picked out of peoples trash, got fed table scraps every night, my males which we always had a GSD was never neutered and they just never seemed to have any problems. And you hardly ever heard of CANCER in dogs 20 plus years ago. I am one who personally thinks that shots every year isn't necessary and will only give them every 3 years when my boys rabies is due. Of course he will get heartworm in the summer months and I take down a fecal sample often to check for worms. I think alot of things that people use on there grasses and sprays for bugs have alot to do with some of the health problems our dogs are having today we use way too many CHEMICALS now a days. Including things like k9 advantix, advantage, and other flea products we are putting on our dogs, way to many pesticides in those things and I don't buy into them. I go the natural way and use essential oils Now as far as his nutrition I give him a mix of Innova evo and Natural balance mixed together and only dry and about 2-3 times a week he goes outside in the yard and has a big raw meaty marrow bone from the butcher which cleans there teeth naturally


*Quoted by Carrie*:If pampering is keeping dogs with us, whether we're inside or out, including them more as part of the family, that's a good thing. If pampering means not giving them guidance, letting them raise themselves, letting them have their own way about everything, then that's not good for them. Keeping them well nourished and comfortable is a good thing. Humanizing them as far as thinking that they think just like we do, that they know right from wrong is where I have the biggest problem with what I see. I think that's always been a common thing with people. It's natural to project our thinking onto them. The more education, the better for them.

As far as evolution goes, I'm sure there will be some changes in thousands of years from now, what degree and what type is anybody's guess.

Well put Carrie and I agree as well *wink*
__________________

[shay05]

Old post, but figured I'd respond anyway..lol...I think ppl are going nuts. People think I'm nuts for NOT letting my dogs on furniture. Thats a rule I have for all pets. NO furniture and NO going into the kids' rooms. Our dogs don't eat the trendy "raw diet" They eat Blue. I also let them outside when we leave the house. IMO, no sense in keeping dogs (or atleast my huskies) locked up in the house day in and day out. They love it out there. They are not humans, they are dogs. People seem to forget that. Its like people who carry their pooches 24/7. More often than not, the dog would love to run around and get some exercise, not treated like a baby doll. No, I don't make them wear clothes, thats what fur is for. I don't paint their nails and give them bottled water. I do not think that makes me LESS of a dog owner than someone who lets their dog pretty much do anything and everything they want.

[calgal]

I think as long as we do take care of our charges in the best way we know with feeding, socializing, making a part of the family, loving, training, then the "how" is all from learning.........and that means all new areas of progress. We change different things from time to time accordingly to what we learn. I don't have a problem with large dogs being outside, but not for 24-7. I don't have a problem with clothes even if they are foo-foo. I do have a problem with people who get really tiny dogs and carry them around and wont socialize them with other dogs. They tend to get nippy and afraid and they can't be happy feeling like that.
Shandoggy, instead of getting shots every three years, have the titer test taken. Study shows that most animals are protected for up to eight years.

[linnie]

Originally Posted by shay05

Old post, but figured I'd respond anyway..lol...I think ppl are going nuts. People think I'm nuts for NOT letting my dogs on furniture. Thats a rule I have for all pets. NO furniture and NO going into the kids' rooms. Our dogs don't eat the trendy "raw diet" They eat Blue. I also let them outside when we leave the house. IMO, no sense in keeping dogs (or atleast my huskies) locked up in the house day in and day out. They love it out there. They are not humans, they are dogs. People seem to forget that. Its like people who carry their pooches 24/7. More often than not, the dog would love to run around and get some exercise, not treated like a baby doll. No, I don't make them wear clothes, thats what fur is for. I don't paint their nails and give them bottled water. I do not think that makes me LESS of a dog owner than someone who lets their dog pretty much do anything and everything they want.

I think I am a bit crabby today so if this sounde rude its not meant too.
If you choose to have your dogs live the life you describe then as long as they arnt abused or deprived of good nourishment I see nothing wrong with your choice. However I also feel that calling other people nuts because they choose to pamper their dogs is offensive.
As an ill person my dogs have been a real joy to my life and I enjoy cuddling them on the bed, lounge or whatever furniture I choose

No I dont paint their toenails or dress them but hey it is better to see a dog getting this treatment that a kick everytime the owner sees them.

We live in a world where people constantly disapoint us, many have taken their dogs to a higher level of companionship to make up for mans lack of human kindness. I for one would give the world away if I could just have the wonderful dog companions I have recently lost. No one can replace the honesty and joy of a dog

[calgal]

I second that emotion Linnie!! I hope your not coming down with anything. I tend to get really down and somewhat blah right before a cold tries to take over.