Cages; humane or inhumane

[Clarence]

I recently started a discussion on how my dog Carlie chews things up when i am gone. Someone had suggested I put her in a cage while I was gone. I said that was inhumane but after listening to some of the reasons why they are not, I am starting to chang my mind on this subject. I wanted to know what everyone else thinks though.

[princessjodi]

I used to think the same way...then Joules ate the covers off of several electrical outlets and a $250 pair of RX glasses...

We got her a crate that evening...

We only crated her when we were gone for any length of time...like an hour or more. It kept her safe (when I found the chewed outlets I nearly had a heart attack!) and it kept our stuff safe...lol

Now though...she has matured a bit and isn't so destructive when left alone. I only crate her now when the maintenance guy or someone needs to enter the apt and at my parent's house.

[DFrost]

I think they useful tools for training. they can be indespensable for house training or for isolating the dog when it can't be watched, until he is properly trained. Beyond that, I think it's cruel to expect the dog to live in a crate when you are gone, can't be bothered, dog is underfoot etc etc. I've heard the rationale of a crate being a den, but that is nonsense, dens don't have doors, they come and go from a den as they please. Excuses such as safety means training has not been done properly. Safety from someone breaking in the house I don't buy either, it confines the dog so he doesn't even have a chance to escape or defend himself. If someone is bent on hurting the dog, crated or uncrated isn't going to make a difference. In the end, I think people use crates for extended periods of time because they either don't want to take the time, trouble or bother of training the dog properly.

DFrost

[mrsgrubby]

I have a high energy beagle pup, 7 months old. She is a busy girl!!! So at night while I am asleep I crate her to keep her safe. She too has tried to chew electrical cords, and after reading on here about the dog that recently died doing that, I won't risk her life, nor buring down my house.

I also crate her if I am leaving her alone for a few hours during the day to keep her safe.

Crates come in different sizes. If you are using a crate for potty training you should get a smaller one, but since mine are more for safety than potty training, i have a big one. My puppy plays in it, she can stretch out, she can roll around a bit, she is very comfortable in it with all her toys.

I have taught her the command, "kennel up" and she runs into her cage, sits down and waits for her treats. It is really cute. I would imagine if she hated the crate she wouldn't do that.

[Clarence]

You can crate smaller dogs like beagles in a crate where the ycan stretch out but for bigger dogs, unless you are buying a bear cage then they really dont make a crate big enough for the dog to play in or chase its tail or whatever else a free dog wouls do.

[Koira]

Crates are good for house training a puppy and they do prevent development of destructive habits. Unfortunately way too many people leave their puppy in the crate for the whole working day and that’s definitely not OK. If a puppy needs to be alone more than four hours I think it would be best to do house breaking the old fashion way with a “safe room” and paper training.

If an adult dog needs to be crated due to destructiveness it’s a sure sign that the dog is not getting enough exercise and training. I pretty much agree with DFrost.

[PawNclaws]

I agree with whats been said already. I "kennel" Beau and my parents "kennel" Aj at night, for naps and when we all go(which is not very often seeing some one is almost always here). For potty training I didn't put him in a kennel(nor was AJ), I found that the x-pen worked wonderfully with Beau at night, All I did was have his kennel in the pen with him with the door wide open. That also got him use to the kennel being a good place to rest too. He made no mess at all on his schedual (every few hrs - then I increased it over a period of time). In all, I think if a "Kennel" is used properly, its a very nice thing to have.

[bigdoglover]

Having 2 Giant Schnauzers and a JRT, I know the benefits of a crate.

One of my GS comes and goes in her crate whenever she wants during the day. She is shy, and if things get too busy in the house, or she wants to nap, she goes into her crate on her own.

My other GS is totally trustworthy, however I crate her when I leave the house, as with the other GS and the JRT.

I have always said, we put our children in cribs and playpens...same concept. No, I wouldn't put my kid in the crib all day, or the playpen. But they need to have a safe place for their own good while training.

[britishbandit]

Crates/cages are not inhumane, if they aren't abused and over-used.

[DaisySunshine]

Daisy stays in a crate during the day. I go home at lunch for her potty walk and to love on her a bit. If I didn't work this close to home, I couldn't conscientiously leave her in there all day. She also sleeps in it at night. Our trainer recommended that. She has to earn the privilege of sleeping in the bed.

But when I am at home, she is out. I see no reason to put her in the crate if I am home.

[Dogsareme]

I never agreed with crate training until a few months ago. I had to get one for my year old Akita who was going in for ligiment surgery to help stop him from walking around. Its a good thing we got it because he was hard to keep down, still being a pup, he just wanted to play regardless of his leg. It was for his own good. Now he really likes his crate and we only put him in it when we have to go for more then a few hours. The reason we started putting him in it when we leave is because now that Mudd is around and they are both left out alone together they like to destroy things. If one of them is crated nothing gets destroyed, but then the other one whines if they are both not out, so now they both get crated. Once Mudd gets a bit older (she's only 9 months) I will try them out together again. I really think the crate is good for not having your house destroyed when your gone and if you don't trust your neighbours enough to leave them outside. My two really like their crates. I never have to force them into them, I just have to say "Kennel" and they run to it. Plus they know when I leave they get a big juicy bone to chew. I also buy a crate thats bigger then my dog so they have alot of room. Other then when I have to be gone for more then 2 hours, I never use the crates.

[Ritz459]

Sadie's crate is a lifesaver for her. lol We crate her when we are gone and she isn't going with us and it is a nice place for her to go to when she is overwhelmed and when she's tired she'll just go and plop down in her crate. Now if we say, "Sadie, crate!" she'll go and sit down in it and wait for you to shut the door.

I think that crates can be abused, but so can any other training tool, leashes included. So when used right, they are great for you and your dog.

[fireworksinjuly]

They can be ana amazing training tool when used properly. If the crate is big enough and used properly they are great.

Now if you get a crate too small and leave the dog in their for hours on end, then yes it is inhumane.

Before we got my samoyed he was in a crate meant for a toy breed, maybe a smallish medium sized dog and he was hardly ever let out of it. It was certainly inhumane then. Now, I can tell he is aprehensive about crates and for the most part he refuses to go near one.
Now by bulldog has been crate trained properly in an adaquate sized crate. He has never gone in the house, he doesnt chew things up and he LOVES to sleep in it, when hes not told to "go to bed" also.

GP has some great threads on crate training and what to look for in a crate, do a search and im sure youll find that when used properly they are far from inhumane and can be very helpfull.

[elegy]

with two pit bulls who cannot be left home alone together, one of whom has a touch of separation issues, crates have been a life-saver for me.

there's no way at all i could leave luce home alone uncrated. i've tried and she throws herself against the windows and screams, trying to follow me. if i close her in her crate with a yummy she's calm and cool as could be. (i don't ever have to tell them to go in their crates- they know my routine and crate themselves, complete with anticipatory drool for the forthcoming yummies.) she also spends quite a bit of time snoozing in her crate with the door open. she's just comfortable there, i think.

mushroom i don't crate if i'm leaving just him home alone. he's reliable and just mostly holds down the couch.

[Novel]

I've had Weims for a while now. I've had Weims with crates, and I've had one Weim not using a crate.
The four dogs we currently have all are crate trained, and love their crates. They know that crates are for sleeping and eating, and since that seems to be the majority of their lives, they think they're pretty great places.
Crates are NEVER punishment and they are to protect them and the things that we spend money on when it's not spent on them!! LOL!
With 2 dogs under the age of two, crates are still a big necessity for us, and I won't fool ya, Weims get bored, fast. They don't like to be left alone in the first place, and they'll amuse themselves.
That said, let's talk about my Weim before we knew about the proper use of crates. He was a rescue. He was crated as an 8 week old puppy with a 16 month old dog. It was a huge crate and he peed on the other dog when he had to go and noone let him out. He was punished when he came out of the crate for peeing on the other dog. At 10 weeks the family decided to give him up. That's not a typo, they tried him for 2 weeks... Sigh. That's where I come into the picture. You'll be glad to know they also gave up their other Weim a short time later when they didn't have time for him.
We picked him up and drove him home. He was great! Someone was always home with him, and we never used a crate to potty train him. I honestly don't remember it, but it must have gone pretty well, but like I said, I don't remember. There was never a time that he was left alone until he was about 9 months old. Can you believe it??? It had never happened before, but everyone needed to be gone, and we had a crate that was a gift when I had taken in a prior dog, so, we put him in it, and went on our merry way. When we got back 4 hours later he was a bloody mess. He had broken nails off, as well as bloodied his face. The crate was a mess! He had defecated, urinated, spun in it, and done everything he could to break out. OK, BIG mistake on my part. I know that now... So, he won and we never put him in a crate again. I lived with my in-laws at the time, and if eveyone would have to be at work.. someone would call in sick to stay home with him... Tell me who was the owner in this situation!
Well, when it came time to move into our new home, he came with us, but, we ran into a huge problem... who was going to watch him? Well, he went everywhere with us in the car... so, we found that in an emergency, we could put him in the car and he would be fine. We worked nights, and so temperature was not an issue. There were times he came to work with me, times he went with my husband, etc. We turned our lives upside down for this dog, and loved him so darn much, but didn't know any better!
Well, all of this seemed to be making him worse. One day we were in our new home and were working in a second floor room and then went down stairs and outside to get something. We shut the door so that he would have to stay, as we would be right back. oh... which reminds me, he clawed up all sorts of doors, because that was our other option, put him in the bathroom, but that resulted in damage, unlike the car. Anyways, we're outside getting some tool or whatnot and the dog jumped out the window, onto the porch roof and then off onto the ground. TWO STORIES!!! He was frothing at the mouth from anxiety and we had to go to the vet, as I was sure he'd broken his leg. We were gone for maybe three minutes from the room! Thankfully, he did not break his leg, just sprained it! He was about a year old. And this was becoming typical behavior for him. Abour four months later the car was no longer an option, when the following happened. The last day of March I was in the barn checking on my ewes who were to lamb anytime. Sure enough, one was lambing and she was having a bad delivery. I was home alone and couldn't keep the dog with me, so I put him in the car. I returned to the ewe and delivered and resuscitated two lambs. It took about 4 hours. When I returned to the car I was SHOCKED!! He had pulled apart the seats, pulled down the ceiling and the trim around the doors and had pulled the panels off the doors. The insurance estimate was over $2500 damage. Thankfully insurance covered it!
So, now the car was no longer an option... It was horrible!!! But, you try calling the insurance company for a claim and explain to them on April Fools Day that your dog destroyed your car! My agent didn't believe it, and the appraiser took extra pics for the guys at the office... sigh....
Well, sadly, our beloved baby was struck by a car a month and a half later as he accompanied me on my morning chores. Had he been safely in his crate waiting for my return, it would never have happened. I was never able to help him understand that crates were a good place. He'd never been trained, and more importantly, neither had I. I didn't understand their use, their purpose, or what they were there to do. When we had used it we used it as a place for the dog to go when we left, and sprung it all on him at once!
When Topper came to us at 7 months we were told he was crate trained.. ummm, NO! It was a repeat of our other dog. Identical! For almost 3 months we turned our lives upside down again! Then, an epihpany, I started to take back our lives and I trained him to be in a crate. I had to do a ton of reseach and I had to take baby steps, lots of them. There were days I cried, and days I begged him to please understand that this was for his own good. For a while we evern thought about sending him back to his breeder. Can you believe it, my baby boy, not with us???
It took about 4 months to be able to safely leave him in a crate, and another 5 before he was actually quiet, but, it was done. He still can be whiney in his crate when he's in a grumpy mood, but, we've found that he prefers the enclosed kind, versus the wire kind. He also prefers to be with Alley, versus being alone. We have the largest crate they make for him, it would easily fit two danes, I swear. But, as he's progressed in his training, we don't have to use any of those calming things for him anymore. He has his own Vari-kennel next to Laney and will only make whines if our in-laws come over and he thinks he should be out amongst us. That's poor training on our part. Our in-laws love all the dogs, and the dogs know when someone comes over they have to kennel up. But with the in-laws they know they get to come out again right away.
Since he travels in a crate daily around the country each weekend to shows, during the week to training, etc... we've found him to be quite an apt pupil! Alley, Laney and Spirit act like crates are second nature, but, they've been using them since the day they came across our thresholds...
Weims are prone to Separation Anxiety, it is not through any fault of theirs. They were bred to be companions and above all else, that's what they want to be! Training them correctly for a crate is vital, and using a crate, imo, is vital...
That's my crate story....