Is it your right to tell me that I should spay/neuter? I don't think so!

[dinkydog]

This is just a hypothetical question......


If I were in the market for a dog and came on here saying so, I'm sure a few people would mention to me that I needed to be sure and get my pup spayed/neutered. Is it anyone's right to tell someone that?

Obviously, our shelters are overcrowded - but I didn't put those dogs there. If my dog had a litter of pups and I found them all good homes - haven't I done what is responsible? If those people choose not to spay or neuter and they have pups that end up in shelters then doesn't that burden fall on them at that point? How am I connected to what they didn't do?

Does it really make one an irresponsible breeder if they have a litter or two of pups out of their dog? I don't see how - if all the pups were placed because the responsibility of those pups is out of my hands at that point.

I see alot of this being said on the forums I visit - and I'm not sure I agree with it. If this was my choice (to breed my dog) then I am indirectly being accused of being an irresponsible breeder when I had nothing to do with the dogs that end up in shelters.

The term 'irresponsible breeder' gets thrown around too much and is way over used. It seems to be used towards anyone who does not agree with or breed the same way you do.

Responsible is defined as: (my comments are below each definition, denoted with ~~)

re·spon·si·ble [ri spónssəb’l]
adj

1. answerable to somebody: accountable to somebody for an action or for the successful carrying out of a duty

~~placing pups in good homes is the successful carrying out of that duty~~

2. important: conferring the authority to take decisions independently and requiring conscientiousness and trustworthiness in a responsible position

~~Example: Making a decison to not let a certain family have a pet because it is not right for them. Has nothing to do with spay and neuter.~~

3. being to blame for something: being the cause of something, usually something wrong or disapproved of

~~If you neglect your dogs - you would be to blame for their lack of care. If you have a litter of pups and take good care of them then there is no blame. You can't apply the blame of the overpopulation of the shelters here because the breeder does not have anything to do with those dogs~~

4. in charge of somebody or something: expected to deal with something or take care of somebody

~~Self explanatory~~

5. reliable: able to be counted on owing to qualities of conscientiousness and trustworthiness

~~ Again, as long as you care for your dogs and take them for regular vet check ups - what is the problem?~~

6. rational and accountable for your actions: capable of taking rational or moral decisions, and therefore accountable for your actions

~~Same answer as # 2~~

7. having authority to act: having the authority to take decisions independently
~~ Same answer as # 2 & 6~~

8. finance financially sound: having adequate means to meet financial obligations
~~ Being financially able to care for your dogs~~

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.



It seems to me that there are ALOT less iresponsible breeders out there than some of you imagine. I would NOT be considered a BYB if I bred my dogs, found them homes, and provided for their care and I wouldn't have to perform every made up health test under the some (some ARE needed, don't get me wrong) to be a responsible breeder.

I'm sure I'll get some flack over this post - but you know what? Facts are facts. It seems that the definition of a 'responsible' breeder has been strongly influenced by the OPINIONS of those who think they are superior in their knowledge of dogs. Having knowledge is great - but using it to distort the truth and make others feel that what they are doing is wrong is just plain inexcusable.

[PitBullie09]

Well..IMO...Even if your not the one who put them there. You can still prevent them by spaying and nuetering your dog. You may think you are givin them a good home, but you cant always be 100% sure.

[dinkydog]

It appears that your opinion is the minority?

[PitBullie09]

Sorry..but I dont even know what that word means?!lol

[Alexis]

Well, it sounds like some people have given you a hard time about spaying/neutering.
It think that the definition of "responsible breeder" goes a lot deeper than a dictionary. There are so many dogs that end up in shelters. If you had a planned litter of puppies that went to homes, those are homes that she shelter dogs are no longer eligible for! I have a strong belief that breeding should be done to better the breed. I have had both mutts and purebreds. I have never and will never breed my dogs. It is a "responsibility" that I am not willing to take on.
Spaying and neutering prevents accidental pregnancies. Have you ever lived with an intact dog or bitch..... let me tell you, they will do anything to get out and find a mate(this is from experiencing my best friend's dog).
I don't think that any dog lover would try to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. I believe that we do what we can to educate people. If you have intentions to purchase a purebred for a reputable breeder (after doing much research), having all of the testing done as required by the AKC, finding an excellent purebred male/female mate, creating puppy applications and contracts and registering the litter with the AKC all to better the breed..... by all means, breed the dog. If you intentions were any less than that, I would say that is being irresponsible. JMO.

[dinkydog]

~~~those are homes that she shelter dogs are no longer eligible for!~~~

Not true. If someone wants to 'buy' a dog they will do just that. Anyone knows you can adopt a dog, but some people just don't want to. If one breeder isn't available - another will be.


PS - Minority means 'few'. Meaning that not many people seemed to agree with you.

[GSD]

Does anyone have the right to tell you you should spay or neuter you pet?? Of course they do, you're on a message board where people post their thoughts on subjects all the time. Now can you retort and say why you aren't going to? of course its a message board.

If you have pups and find good homes, you did the responsible thing, if you let your dogs breed for no other reason than because you weren't responsible enough to keep the seperated during that time, I'd call you out on it, and tell you next time to be more careful. I really think unless you are breeding to better a breed you should stay out of it, breeding dogs isn't a novelty. Now I know accidents can happen, even "responsible breeders" can have accidents and they own up to it, but they still know they screwed up.

Now from the majority of your posts i gather that you like to play devil's advocate, but come on. Most people come on here with plans of breeding their dogs, and have ZERO idea of what's involved, they ask questions like how do I know when the dogs in heat, how do i know if she's pregnant, how do I know how many puppies she'll have, if they're asking questions like that, are you honestly going to tell me I have no business telling them they should spay or neuter their pet??? They should before an accident happens.

In case you haven't noticed almost everything is somebody's opinion. The world is run by it. You go to a DR, the diagnosis is largely based on his opinion of the knowledge he has and what he thinks is right. Why do you think so many 2nd and 3rd opinions are sought out, try and build a house a contractor is going to tell you what they think is right, elect a president and he's going to fight a war he thinks is right, no different in dog breeding.

[doberkim]

and we all know what registry they will use for their designer mixes...

[LabLuver22]

"PS-Minority means few. Meaning that not many people here seemed to agree with you."

I 100% agree with her! And I'm sure lots of others do, too.

What, just because you have an opinion and she has another, you're in the "majority?"

[PitBullie09]

Well..It seems there are many people that agree with me. There is already alot of unwanted puppies. Why make more. Sure you may think your puppies are wanted. But when you give/sell to whom-ever, and it pee's on their carpet, they may not want it anymore and talk it straigh to the shelter. Where it stays, and dies. All because it peed on the carpet. Sure, your puppies may not end up like that, but many do.Not very many people agree with you either.Erin

[doberkim]

by all means, keep your dogs intact.

but stop them from overburdening the world with their lesser quality animals.

forget asking us what makes repsonsibility - what makes YOU think your dogs are worthy of being bred?
what do your dogs have to offer int erms of health?
in temperament?
in working ability?
in structure?
to the breed/ (this is assuming of course, that you arent working on your designer mixes).

so again -what makes your dogs different from the ones we can go and get from the shelter.

if you dont like the breed standard, dont breed fr the breed standard, and such -what are you breeding for?

[Rip's Girl]

Anyone can tell you that you should spay or neuter. Nobody can make you, but plenty of people can tell you.

If you don't breed for the registered breed standard, then IMO you are either trying to make a quick buck (or any other of the BYB excuses) or you are trying to improve a working breed.
I have no problem with trying to improve a breed. I know many people with Border Collies who breed them and disregard the standard for looks, focusing only on working ability. They do this because show breeders have greatly reduced the Border Collie's trademark "eye" and working drive. IMO this is still a responsible thing to do, in producing working/performance animals. If you are not breeding for show or working, though, and you are just pumping out puppies, that is irresponsible and yes you are going to be told many times to spay and neuter.

I also have no problem with people leaving their dogs intact. But, if you have an intact dog, BE RESPONSIBLE about contaning it! Don't let an unaltered dog loose in a yard with a fence that he/she can jump. Don't ever let an unaltered dog off-leash. Keep your unspayed female inside when she is in season. Keep your intact male contained when there is a female in season nearby. Always have a secure collar and leash on an intact dog. NEVER let them get out of your grasp. If they ever get loose, there's a good chance that they will bolt and possibly wind up producing more puppies.
The reason we recommend spaying and neutering so much is because not many people can keep such close tabs on their dogs, and the dogs wind up escaping.
If you can monitor your dog that closely and have that much time on your hands to watch your dog, then by all means leave him intact. But if you can't then the responsible thing to do is to spay or neuter.

[LabLuver22]

"I would NOT be considered a BYB if I bred my dogs, found them homes, and provided for their care...."

Oh really? Why not? A BYB means that the person doesn't know very much and/or care about their breed, and are not interested in improving their breed. Generally, they breed such as, "I want my kids to see the miracle of birth," or, "My dog is so precious, I want her to have puppies that are just like her." A person can breed their dog for these reasons, find their dogs homes and take good care of them, and still be considered a BYB.

A breeder can provide excellent care for their dogs, but if they breed for the "wrong reason" or for no reason at all, they are a BYB.

Also, it is true that some people go directly to breeders when getting a dog and don't even consider shelters. However, there is also this kind of scenario (and it happens more often than you think):

Let's say there's this family who just wants a loving family pet. Breeder, shelter...it doesn't really matter. And let's say that this typical family is about to go to the shelter the next day with their friend to look at available dogs.

That morning, the mom or dad takes the kids to the bus stop. While they're there, a neighbor brings a box containing five wriggly, cuddly, adorable 8-week-old Lab puppies. The kids (and the parent) are enchanted. It's love at first sight. The neighbor ever-so-casually mentions that the puppies are sale, for only a hundred bucks each. The mom/dad almost takes out their wallet, but decides to get the neighbor's number and discuss the matter at dinner. They end up all going to the neighbor's house that night to look at the puppies.

The puppies are cute and healthy. They're purebred and AKC-registered. They have all of their shots. What more could the family want? They take their pick of puppy and pay the "breeder."

The same kind of thing could happen with a pet shop. That's the kind of scenario that puts BYBs at blame for dogs in shelters. True, it doesn't happen all the time, but it certainly does. This problem usually doesn't happen with reputable breeders, because many reputable breeders have a waiting list before their pups are born. And they certainly don't try to sell their puppies by bringing them to the bus stop or putting an ad in the paper.

Also, BYBs and pet stores/puppy mills contribute more to shelter problems because reputable breeders are very, very careful about who they sell to. They won't sell to someone who wants to surprise their kids or show off to their neighbors. And they usually make the buyer return a puppy if they can't care for it.

And people that tell you to spay/neuter tell you that because they feel it's in the best interest of you, your dog, and society. You can certainly keep your dogs intact and not breed them, but, WHY??? Why go through all of those heat cycles and territory markings when you could spay/neuter and (for the most part) eliminate those problems? Why risk an accidental litter?

Just something to think about.

[LabLuver22]

"If my dog had a litter of pups and I found them all good homes - haven't I done what is responsible? If those people choose not to spay or neuter and they have pups that end up in shelters then doesn't that burden fall on them at that point? How am I connected to what they didn't do?"

If your dog has a litter of puppies and you give the puppies away to homes, and those puppies are bred and their offspring end up in shelters, then, yes, you are indirectly responsible. Responsible breeders require that all dogs not used for show/breeding are spayed and neutered.

[BXRchic]

here's what I dont get....

why would someone want all of those newborn puppies pee-ing and poop-ing on their carpeting??? (just kidding-but kinda not)