should north america ban tail docking

[MazieDog]

There is already a thread with 17 pages of tail docking/ear cropping debate, though it is a couple years old..

http://www.globalpaw.com/dog-debate-...l-docking.html (Opinions On Tail Docking???)

[theGOOCH]

I had my dogs' ears and tails done for a good reason: I like 'em that way.

[LilacDragon]

Originally Posted by theGOOCH

I had my dogs' ears and tails done for a good reason: I like 'em that way.

And that is one FINE lookin' dobie!

[AgileOllie]

Originally Posted by theGOOCH

I had my dogs' ears and tails done for a good reason: I like 'em that way.

That IS a good reason!

[KennelMom]

I don't have a docked breed, so I don't really have a dog in this debate, so to speak. Personally, I prefer natural ears and tails on most dogs.

If docking/cropping is done properly (by a vet and at the right age) I honestly don't have a problem with it....I wouldn't personally do it, but I'm not big on government intrusion in my life. Obviously dogs that are docked and cropped (properly) don't suffer any long term effects, so if the owner of the dog wants to do it, then why not.

Greyhound puppies are tattoo'd in their ears...it's not exactly pleasant, but it's brief and necessary. (Yes I have seen this done in person).

As someone mentioned earlier....there are a lot of other animal welfare issues that need to be addressed and resolved waaaaaayyyyyy before this one.

[Novel]

All of my dogs are docked, and the one breed that is traditionally cropped (Boxer) is not. That was my personal choice. I have cropped another Boxer that I previosuly had. Again, it was my choice. I do not believe it is justified that honest, good citizens have their rights removed in order to stop others from being stupid. I hold true to this in not only the cropping/docking debate but also in the BYB/puppymill/PAWS debate and matters relating to the right to bear arms and/or hunt.

A link that I have found shares some interesting information re: tail docking in Australia. HERE

[Sophie45]

I think docking should be stopped. Unless the dog benefits, not the owner, why should we do it? I am sure the pain is momentary, but personally, I would NEVER put my dog in any pain, however fleeting, unless there is some benefit to her, such as spaying her. Why do we need to change the way that they look??? Maybe I don't have a right to have such a strong opinion, because I have a mutt (she's half boxer, half german shepard) but I just cannot begin to understand why people would inflict any discomfort to a dog for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Correct me if I am mistaken, but some breeds HAVE to be cropped/docked to be entered in dog shows. Who in the world came up with the idea that you have to permanently alter a dog cosmetically to enter a contest? We would never do that in a beauty pageant (although I am sure many contestants voluntarily elect to have procedures done) why would we do that to dogs?
In addition, dogs COMMUNICATE with their tails and ears (although I honestly don't know if a dog who has cropped ears changes their ability to use their ears at all) When my dog is upset, her ears go back and flatten against her head (I am not sure, maybe a dog who has cropped ears can still do this...please correct me if I am wrong!). If a dog scares her, she tucks her tail between her legs, when she is on alert, it sticks straight out, and I love her long tail wagging like mad when I come home from work.

Look at those ears....why would anyone want to surgically alter them?!

[Punkygirl0101]

I think docking and cropping is unnecessary. I think that people who have the reason "I like the way it looks better" are selfish. Its my opinion. Why put your dog through pain (I am talking more about cropping by the way) so you can have a certain look? I like my dogs for their personalities, not the way they look..and appearance should mean nothing to people. What if you had a child who was born with no legs? Would you not like them because they are not appealing to you?

I get dogs the way they come to me. I have a docked mixed breed..why his "breeders" did that to him is beyond me. He would have had a BEAUTIFUL tail! I love tails on dogs..they look so much better with tails, and natural ears.

Cropping IS a painful procedure, and its messy, and bloody..and they have to be on pain meds. Why do that to your dog? It has no benefit.

[Novel]

It seems some posters have very strong convictions, making statements as fact, with no actual facts to back up their claim. A little research wouldn't kill anyone, and would actually bring to this "debate" a little bit more than "I feel" and "I think". That's not a debate.

[britishbandit]

Originally Posted by Sophie45

In addition, dogs COMMUNICATE with their tails and ears

Yes, they do, in part. But a dogs main sense is smell. And yes, it may be harder for "us" to tell what their tails are doing on a docked breed, it is still distinguishable. Despite the "nubs", I can still clearly see when my dogs tails are up, level and "tucked", I can also determine by their posture, eyes, ears and just the general way they carry themselves at a given time. And I'm far from being an expert on dogs, although I do my best, and am constantly trying to learn and better myself in my understanding of these animals.

I'm not against having tails either, but it is a choice to dock or not to, and it should remain that way.

[bigdoglover]

Ear Cropping: Correct or Cruel?
Owners should make an informed decision about cropping a dog's ears.
Ear cropping, like tail docking and dew claw removal, began centuries ago as a preventive measure. In those times, there were no antibiotics for infections or anesthesias, and no veterinary surgeons to repair cuts, wounds and infections. Owners learned as a practical matter to remove in the first days of life those portions of a puppy's anatomy that were prone to tearing.

Hunting dogs, which wag their tails vigorously when on scent, had their tails shortened. Dew claws, which can snag and tear in heavy brush, were removed. Ears were an easy target in fights, and most of the fighting dogs had their ears cropped. Thus, breeds like American Staffordshire Terriers and Bull Terriers were cropped. (Bull Terrier breeders, however, stopped cropping almost a century ago and learned to select dogs for breeding with a small, erect ear.) Some hunting and guarding breeds, including the Great Dane (at that time a boarhound) and the Boxer, were cropped to prevent injury. Many flockguarding breeds (such as the Caucasian Owtcharka of Russia and the Akbash Dog of Turkey) had their ears nearly amputated (across, almost flush with the head) since they lived most of their lives out with the flocks and had to face wolves and bears. Even the Saluki had its ears removed in its native Arabia, probably due to the rapid appearance of flies and maggots in any wound. Many early Saluki imports from the desert could not be shown in the United States due to their cropped ears.

Almost all early ear crops were short and crude. As advances in husbandry and medicine eliminated the need for short ears, cropping became more fashion than protective medicine. Surgeries were done under anesthesia, and the cuts tended to lengthen and become more graceful and aesthetic in shape. Miniaturized breeds, such as the Miniature Pinscher and the Miniature Schnauzer, usually followed their larger cousins in fashion. Toy Manchester Terrier breeders, however, resisted and do not allow cropping, although it is permitted for the Standard Manchester Terrier.

There are no longer any scientifically proven reasons to crop ears. Some say that it prevents ear infections, but veterinarians see plenty of erect-eared dogs (both natural and cropped) with these infections. Besides, if that were true, the practice of cropping Cockers and other spaniels as well as Poodles, Beardies and Mastiffs would have gained wide acceptance.

Today, ear cropping is a cosmetic surgery, pure and simple. If you like the look of the cropped ear, you may choose to crop, but it is a choice. The procedure should be done as early as possible: 6 weeks of age in the larger breeds and not past 9 weeks in the smaller ones. In a dog older than 16 weeks there is not only more pain but also more pain memory. Ear cartilage is for the most part set permanently by 4 months of age, so there is little latitude for bracing and training the cut ear to stand after surgery. Ear cropping is a choice each owner must make, and it should be an informed choice.



Copyright ©2001 Animal Network, a division of Fancy Publications Inc. All rights reserved.


I found this article here: http://www.briarleabouvier.com/ear_cropping.htm

[Sophie45]

I definitely understand that dogs utilize other avenues to communicate other than their ears and tail, but I know if I personally had the ability to communicate at 100% rather than 75% but couldn't simply because my parents wanted to alter the way that I look, I would not be too pleased! Also, dogs also communicate with each other through their tails and ears.
Here is a beautiful example....at the dog park my dog and I go to, there is a dog who likes to play rough and wrestle with my pup "to a point". I can tell when he's had enough because his tail goes from curling around his back to tucked between his legs. While my puppy is too excited to notice right away, we are working on "leaving it" immediately when this dog's tail is tucked. I would have no idea if he had a docked tail (there is another dog there with a docked tail), and he would regard my dog-and others-as enemies, not his playmates. I am better able to teach my pup because I can read this dog's body language through his tail.
I will recant my blanket statement that all cropping and docking should be stopped, because if a hunting dog would be harmed by their dew claws or ears for example, I definitely believe they should have the procedures. But that's because there is a benefit to the dog, not the owner!
And Novel-most debates come down to what we as individuals think and feel, not fact. You and I may debate on the war on Iraq, for example, bottom line is I am going to have my argument based on my thouhts, feelings and perceptions on the war, whereas your position in the debate can be entirely different based on various aspects. Facts, of course, always make us look better!

[Sugardog]

Personally, I prefer uncropped and undocked.

My main reason for this is simply because there is no reason for it unless you plan on showing your dog. As the article posted by Bigdoglover stated, ear cropping is a cosmetic procedure that serves no purpose except to alter the outward appearance of a dog. I personally don't want to put the dog through the pain and stress of an unnecessary surgery just to get a certain look or make the breed look "traditional".

I read an article a while back about psychological problems associated with docked tails. It talked about phantom tail, which also occurs in humans (except it's called phantom limb) who have had a leg or arm amputated. The scar tissue can also become tense and tight causing irritation. Although this may not occur in every dog, and it may not be as extreme as some of the cases mentioned in the article (the dog was actually gnawing at the stub), it's still a potential side effect that should be considered and not pushed aside. I'll see if I can find that article.

Right now, the only up side I can see about cropping and docking is it makes a dog's breed more recognizable which helps shelters and breed rescues identify the breed of a dog. Dobermans with natural ears and a natural tail can be mistaken for a coonhound because people are accustomed to seeing the traditional cropped ear and docked tail.

[Georgygirl]

Personally, I really don't think docking or cropping is that big of a deal. There's not much pain involved. I do think uncropped and undocked dogs should be allowed to be shown however. I have a breed that has naturally erect ears and a short tail though, so nature made the decisions for me I guess. If I had a breed that was usually docked I would probably have it docked. I probably wouldn't crop though, but that's my choice because it's my dog. I really think legislation should be directed toward puppymills and people who torture animals for fun. THOSE dogs are really suffering.

[Punkygirl0101]

Personally, I really don't think docking or cropping is that big of a deal.
There's not much pain involved.

What makes you think cropping doesn't cause pain to a dog? It causes a lot of pain. The dogs have to be put on paid meds because of it. Docking is different, its done when they are very young, and the puppies (if done the right way) don't feel anything really.

But cropping involves a surgical procedure, and the dog has to be on pain meds. Not to mention bleeding and pus and infection happens all the time.