should north america ban tail docking

[rottielover]

I know with rottie owners this is a long lasting debate.
Was wondering what you all thought about it, and why?

[AgileOllie]

I have a dog who is ILP'd as a schnauzer. He has a long tail and uncropped ears. I really like the look.
At this point, I guess I'm on the fence about it. Asthetically, I like the look of natural dogs, but I also like the look of some who are cropped and docked. I know that since dogs who need these things done haven't been bred for perfect ear and tail sets, if we do go to non-cropping and docking, some really nice dogs may be faulted b/c of ears and tails. It will take a while to get these "components" right.

[britishbandit]

We've gone over this a few times on previous threads. But I'll post again anyway.

No, I don't think docking should be banned. The procedure is done very early (3-5 days of age, depending on the breed), and sure, there is momentary pain, but that's just it, it's momentary. It is done before the bone has formed, and the pups aren't even "put out" for it. It takes but one stitch, and the pups are back to normal within minutes, wanting nothing more than to eat and sleep again. There is no long lasting effect of pain from it.

As for people calling it inhumane. What if the dog injures it's tail, and needs an amputation later on in life? That procedure is MUCH more painful, they need to be under anesthetic, and have a long recovery from it. What about spaying and neutering? That is a choice we have regarding our dogs. A surgery that causes pain, and where the dog needs recovery time. Is it inhumane to spay/neuter our pets? Of course not. For those who think it's inhumane, look at other things, like those who crate their dogs for hours on end, tie them up outside day after day, beat their dogs......now that's inhumane. A quick nip when the tail isn't fully formed, and done at so young of an age, is far from inhumane.

What about when young babies are circumsized in the hospital? Is that inhumane? Done as babies, pain is the last thing on thier minds. Sure, you may hear a squeal when it is done, but what next? Nothing, they just want to eat and sleep, just like pups after a tail docking.

[bigdoglover]

hhhmmm.....I'm on the fence as well.....with my Giants, I dock tails, but leave the ears. Several reasons for this....

1-being German lines, the ear flap (or leather) is much thicker, longer, and heavier than the American lines, thus harder to post/tape and longer to heal

2-every person has a different view they want. Short crop, long show crop, etc.

3-every vet does the procedure differently. Not to mention the cost is different with each vet.

4-having 10-12 pups on the ground, all with tender ears and posts, does not make for a fun time. If anyone has cropped in the past, imaging re-posting 10 squirmy pups! Plus, when they play, they could become more sensitive to their ears, as they are tender.

In my past litters, only one owner (who purchased 2) cropped the ears....she went to a specialist, and they look great. BUT, she said never again with 2!!

Elite and Carlo are natural eared, and Carlo has his tail. I don't mind the look, but I'm not into AKC shows. When we go to a Schutzhund competition, the European judges (and even some American ones) aren't looking for the cropped look....as long as the ears/tail are set right, whether cropped/docked or not, is all that matters. They have a standard for both.

[SpringerLover]

I own a docked breed... and I got into a heated discussion with some fellow ESS-aholics a while back.

We have a big breed split, simple as that... therefore, I don't feel that docking is necessary, or justified. They tried to argue (and I tried to listen) that some of those dogs go hunting, so how are you gonna know at birth... well, considering the first ESS in MANY MANY years has an MH (hightest hunting title) and is major pointed... I'd say now maybe it's justified. The majority of these dogs could only get a JH where it's very unlikely they'll be in underbrush that will damage their tail.

I personally love the look of an undocked tail. THREE (yes WD, WB, and BOB were ALL natural tailed) ESS got the top honors at the Canadian National Speciality this year, and they deserved it IMO. They're english import/canadian dogs. They had ticking and tails... you can imagine how many people were angry!

I loved it and think that regardless, all breeds are changing so at the very least it shouldn't be held against a dog. period.

[LilacDragon]

It seems to me that there are many, many things in North America that go on that are cruel to our animals that our governments don't feel the need to step and regulate - why tail docking and ear cropping?

I haven't counted, but it seems to me like the number of breeds with docked tails and/or cropped ears are in the minority. Changes to the standard should be addressed by the breed clubs. If the government feels the need to regulate these because they are cruel - well, then pass a law so that they need to be done by a certified vet.

If eliminating animal "cruelty" is the reason for addressing these items, well, maybe the North American people would be better served by eliminating commercial kennels or making it easier to prosecute people who fight dogs, put on canned hunts and other such actual cruel activities.

Besides, it seems that all the breeds of dogs that I like are tailless!

[Rivsky]

In Australia tail docking is already banned - unless it's for medical purposes.

I personally love the look of a dog with a tail - but that's just my opinion. Rottweilers look absolutely fabulous with a tail - River and I trained with many rottweilers - and now that they have tails that don't look as strange wagging docked tails - you know wriggling their butts around oddly.

[AgileOllie]

I think it should be up to the owner of the dog, and not held against the dog in the ring. As long as the dog is conformationally sound (if he/she is a conformation dog) tails and ears shouldn't matter.
JMO

[Cassiepeia]

Originally Posted by rottielover

I know with rottie owners this is a long lasting debate.
Was wondering what you all thought about it, and why?

This isn't a debate until you state your opinion of the issue and why you have that opinion.

Cass.

[mrsgrubby]

The world has much bigger issues to worry about that tails and ears, until all those issues are solved, I don't think the focus should be on these issues. What a waste of our elected officials time.

In addition there are plenty of dogs that tails and ears are not docked, so for those who like tails, they can choose a tailed breed. For those who don't care for a tail, like me, then we can choose docked breeds. ...for those who typically like the docked breeds but still want a tail, there are usually tons of dogs in rescue that should have been docked but were not, so they still have tails.

[LilacDragon]

Originally Posted by Rivsky

In Australia tail docking is already banned - unless it's for medical purposes.

I personally love the look of a dog with a tail - but that's just my opinion. Rottweilers look absolutely fabulous with a tail - River and I trained with many rottweilers - and now that they have tails that don't look as strange wagging docked tails - you know wriggling their butts around oddly.

Rottie's don't wriggle their butts oddly! They do it with dignity.

[Beryl]

I'm mixed about this based on my limited experience in the area. I agree w/Lilac that there are other areas which need our attention more. However, sometimes addressing minor areas can have a more profound effect on major ones. That is, once docking is stopped, often we start looking at other cruel behaviors.

Based on what I've read, I'm fine with cropping -- it doesn't seem more uncomfortable than piercing the ears of babies. Also, it can avoid accidents which exceed those which may happen while hunting. Many dogs reside in tight urban quarters and those tails are vulnerable.

OT: I don't see the point of cropping given both the duration and discomfort during during the healing as it compares to docking. Also, I don't like the look of cropped ears since the ears are rarely consistent. The ears always look like someone cut or ripped them and that makes me cringe. (I don't know why I don't feel the same way about tail cropping.)

[Doglover1988]

I own a breed that has naturally up ears and a naturally short tail. I am not against it though. I personally prefer uncropped ears but I love docked tails with a little wagging nub. hehe

[linnie]

I think that all issues regarding kindness to animals is important. So although we have had this discussion before it is always good to bring up issues that we feel worthwhile.

Personally I dont like anything done for cosmetic reasons to a dog.
As humans we decide what we want our pet to look like and just go ahead and do it.

I am all for leaving them with the tails and ears they are born with

[rottielover]

ok, sorry...
I believe it should be up to the breeder, but I do not believe The AKC or CKC ( ckc is slowly allowing) should not allow a tailed rott in the ring. I much prefer the seiger shows based on their judging is strictly on FCI standards. The true rottweiler. With a tail or not. Why rid of something for just cosmetic purpose. There is no medical reasoning behind it.
Just my opinion...My next one when I show will be a tailed one. I will be showing only seiger