Breeding age...

DiabloRojoKennels · 08-08-2007, 05:53 PM

Repost? Not sure...

I have been debating this question with an associate on what age she should stop breeding her Chihuahua's. She thinks it's ok to breed them up to age 7-8 but isn't that senior age? I stop breeding mine at 5. Is there a set age? Am I just being overly cautious? I've been breeding for years now and I've never heard any specific age to stop but I feel the female shouldn't be bred her whole life and she should retire early enough to enjoy her life with out pups...

Can someone give me their thoughts? Thanks I'd really like to put this to rest!

PawNclaws · 08-08-2007, 06:18 PM

Personally, well I'd say 3 litters - one at 2yrs, 4yrs and 5yrs. I think 7-8yrs is to old. I think 5 years would be the max age.. JMO as always !

LilacDragon · 08-08-2007, 06:20 PM

Smaller dogs tend to be longer lived, so I am not sure that a 7 year
old chi would be considered a senior.

With that in mind - there are other things that I think I would take into consideration besides just age. Is the dog being bred everytime she comes into season? How old was she when she had her first litter?

Personally - I think that a bitch should only be bred 3 or 4 times and only every other time she comes into season.

***Cassiepeia*** · 08-08-2007, 07:10 PM

I'm not a breeder, but as a (former) Chihuahua owner and Chi lover, I'd say as long as she's not overbred (I agree with both PawsNclaws & LilacDragon about the number of litters) stopping at 7 or 8yrs isn't so bad for a toy breed. Since they live well into their teens.

Of course, as with everything, it depends on the individual dog in question.

And take my opinion with a grain of salt, because I'm not experienced in this area.

Cass.

rutylr · 08-08-2007, 07:28 PM

JMO but I think one litter is enuff for a female.
If you are only breeding to produce better dogs,would you not keep a few puppies out of your litter to carry on what you have?
If so why breed again?
My females only have one litter.
One female did have two,but that was in the begining.
Now I realize they are not puppy machines for us to use.One litter is enuff for any dog.
Just think how few dogs we might have in shelters if people bred less.

***Cassiepeia*** · 08-08-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rutylr

JMO but I think one litter is enuff for a female.
If you are only breeding to produce better dogs,would you not keep a few puppies out of your litter to carry on what you have?
If so why breed again?
My females only have one litter.
One female did have two,but that was in the begining.
Now I realize they are not puppy machines for us to use.One litter is enuff for any dog.
Just think how few dogs we might have in shelters if people bred less.

I think we're talking maximums here not a mandatory number of litters.

Cass.

Doglover1988 · 08-08-2007, 07:40 PM

I would think it depended on how many times the dog has been bred before. My grandmothers dog accidently got pregnant for the first time when she was 10 and lost the whole litter and had a hard time delivering.

borzoimom · 08-09-2007, 06:17 AM

Well there are alot of factors in this. The big one is the health of the mother and how well a mother she was. Remembering that progrestrone does drop with age, this would leave a mother than wasnt a really good mom with even less of a hormonal system to cope with mother hood. IMO a 7 year old, even in my breed that is long lived as well, is not in the physical shape say a 4 year old is. A 7 year old doesnt play as much, and physical condition etc is so much of a part of this.. Another question you need to keep in your mind- if the female is strong enough that surgery ( such a C section) would not be a risk, that tells you alot too. Remember a older female is more likely to have less strong uterine contractions etc as well..

briarlow · 08-09-2007, 08:32 AM

In the UK you can't breed from any dog over the age of 7 without getting in touch with our KC who may allow you to have another litter after that date but you dog has to be certified healthy and worthy of improving the breed if it had another litter.

I think 6 is the maximum for a small breed.

TribalRats · 08-09-2007, 09:04 AM

Never breed prior to 2 years of age and NEVER breed after 7. I personally think 1-2 litters is plenty and no more then 3 ever.

DiabloRojoKennels · 08-09-2007, 12:52 PM

I have only bred my female 4 times (one accidental pregnancy) and always with the assistance and guidance of her vet. She has never had a C section and is extremely healthy. I was curious about if I should breed her again.

The lady I was talking to about it said that she breeds hers til like 9years and hasn't had problems. I don't condone this but I thought I would get the general consensus to validate my point to her that that is too old to be breeding her female.

TribalRats · 08-09-2007, 01:55 PM

I had a mentor that bred until the dogs were between 9-10 years old. Granted this did not come to light until she had been my mentor for well over a year. She also bred them back to back, claiming that her vet had told her it was best for the dogs. Regardless, just because a mentor does something does not mean they are correct. There are many in the field of show dogs that have stellar reputations only to find out once you get behind the scenes that they have these stellar reps because the public only has a small glimpse of what is actually taking place.
Common sense will tell you that over breeding causes many health issues not only for your bitch but for your puppies as well.
4 times is more then enough in my opinion, I would certainly not breed her again.
Breeding practices and the lack of overall concern for the well being of the bitch are the reasons I left the show world to begin with.
Granted not everyone has a lack of concern however you would be truly stunned to find out who says one thing and behind closed doors does the exact opposite.

briarlow · 08-09-2007, 03:51 PM

4 times is the most I would ever breed a dog and again it would all depend upon how many pups she'd had, whether she was fully healthy and I don't mean a basic vet check, I mean hipscored, eyetested etc. etc. and what she had produced previously improved on the breed. If not then why bother breeding if the pups produced are nothing ike the breed they should be?

I usually only breed 3 times and that's usually at the ages of around 2, 5 and 7. I have one girl at the moment whom I'm contemplating having another litter from and she's had 3 litters but the numbers are equivalent to other bitches having 2 litters.

I am only contemplating this as she's a good example of the breed, has clear eyes, a below average hipscore, a lovely temperament, her pups have fantastic temperaments and I've had the offer of using a top dog from the breeds country of origin.

Flutterby · 08-09-2007, 09:06 PM

For a small breed, I'd stop around 6, *maybe* 7 if she was in exceptional health, but that would definitely be an exception. I'll breed my small dogs around 2 and 4 or 5, and maybe once more around 6. My larger dogs, I'd breed around 2 or 3, then 4 or 5.

Lanie
And The Zoo
Royal Star Estates
freewebs.com/royalstarestates

Crossfire Bulldogs · 08-10-2007, 06:24 AM

I think much of it depends on the breed as well as each individual female.

I have Bulldogs which are bred by AI and have C sections, Bulldogs are also known for their shorter life spans and because of those things my females are only bred twice in their lifetime. I've only had one bitch that was bred three times ( first time was a singleton pup ) because I felt she could handle it well and I've had a few that were only bred once. I don't breed until at least two years of age ( prefer to wait until three ) and refuse to breed after four years of age.

I guess I feel that a dam is entitled to a break, she shouldn't have to spend the majority of her adult life being bred and should have a chance to enjoy her life. To me, breeding a bitch past the age of five in any breed makes me a bit sad for the dam but I understand that each individual has their own way of looking at it. jmo

08-08-2007, 05:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
DiabloRojoKennels Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Breeding age... Repost? Not sure... I have been debating this question with an associate on what age she should stop breeding her Chihuahua's. She thinks it's ok to breed them up to age 7-8 but isn't that senior age? I stop breeding mine at 5. Is there a set age? Am I just being overly cautious? I've been breeding for years now and I've never heard any specific age to stop but I feel the female shouldn't be bred her whole life and she should retire early enough to enjoy her life with out pups... Can someone give me their thoughts? Thanks I'd really like to put this to rest!

08-08-2007, 06:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
PawNclaws Labrador Crazy Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North West Posts: 1,897 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 108	Personally, well I'd say 3 litters - one at 2yrs, 4yrs and 5yrs. I think 7-8yrs is to old. I think 5 years would be the max age.. JMO as always !
	__________________

08-08-2007, 07:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Cassiepeia* Chihuahua Mum Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 8,267 Blog Entries: 9 Rep Power: 282	I'm not a breeder, but as a (former) Chihuahua owner and Chi lover, I'd say as long as she's not overbred (I agree with both PawsNclaws & LilacDragon about the number of litters) stopping at 7 or 8yrs isn't so bad for a toy breed. Since they live well into their teens. Of course, as with everything, it depends on the individual dog in question. And take my opinion with a grain of salt, because I'm not experienced in this area. Cass.
	__________________ Say NO! to animals in pet shops. Rescue a friend instead: Petfinder Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Book Club ~ Blogs ~ Art Classes ~ Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

08-08-2007, 07:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
rutylr Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sheboygan,WI Posts: 205 Rep Power: 63	JMO but I think one litter is enuff for a female. If you are only breeding to produce better dogs,would you not keep a few puppies out of your litter to carry on what you have? If so why breed again? My females only have one litter. One female did have two,but that was in the begining. Now I realize they are not puppy machines for us to use.One litter is enuff for any dog. Just think how few dogs we might have in shelters if people bred less.
	__________________ Donna's Dots Animal Artist http://www.donnasdots.zoomshare.com/ http://www.cafepress.com/donnasdots

08-08-2007, 07:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
Doglover1988 3 mutts 1 boston terrier Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dallas, Georgia Posts: 2,349 Rep Power: 109	I would think it depended on how many times the dog has been bred before. My grandmothers dog accidently got pregnant for the first time when she was 10 and lost the whole litter and had a hard time delivering.
	__________________ And-2 cats -1 cockatiel -6 Zebra finches -1 syrian hamster -2 mice -1 rabbit -3 bettas "If you want the best seat in the house ... move the dog"-- Unknown Lindsey Last edited by Doglover1988 : 08-08-2007 at 07:45 PM.

08-08-2007, 06:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
LilacDragon Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 298 Rep Power: 54	Smaller dogs tend to be longer lived, so I am not sure that a 7 year old chi would be considered a senior. With that in mind - there are other things that I think I would take into consideration besides just age. Is the dog being bred everytime she comes into season? How old was she when she had her first litter? Personally - I think that a bitch should only be bred 3 or 4 times and only every other time she comes into season.

08-09-2007, 06:17 AM	#8 (permalink)
borzoimom Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 192 Rep Power: 0	Well there are alot of factors in this. The big one is the health of the mother and how well a mother she was. Remembering that progrestrone does drop with age, this would leave a mother than wasnt a really good mom with even less of a hormonal system to cope with mother hood. IMO a 7 year old, even in my breed that is long lived as well, is not in the physical shape say a 4 year old is. A 7 year old doesnt play as much, and physical condition etc is so much of a part of this.. Another question you need to keep in your mind- if the female is strong enough that surgery ( such a C section) would not be a risk, that tells you alot too. Remember a older female is more likely to have less strong uterine contractions etc as well..
borzoimom Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 192 Rep Power: 0

08-09-2007, 08:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
briarlow Join Date: May 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 521 Rep Power: 62	In the UK you can't breed from any dog over the age of 7 without getting in touch with our KC who may allow you to have another litter after that date but you dog has to be certified healthy and worthy of improving the breed if it had another litter. I think 6 is the maximum for a small breed.
	__________________ My dogs aren't my whole life but they make my life http://www.freewebs.com/briarlowsspanishwaterdogs

08-09-2007, 09:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
TribalRats Take Responsibility Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Central Valley, CA Posts: 3,327 Rep Power: 143	Never breed prior to 2 years of age and NEVER breed after 7. I personally think 1-2 litters is plenty and no more then 3 ever.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

08-09-2007, 12:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
DiabloRojoKennels Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	I have only bred my female 4 times (one accidental pregnancy) and always with the assistance and guidance of her vet. She has never had a C section and is extremely healthy. I was curious about if I should breed her again. The lady I was talking to about it said that she breeds hers til like 9years and hasn't had problems. I don't condone this but I thought I would get the general consensus to validate my point to her that that is too old to be breeding her female.

08-09-2007, 01:55 PM	#12 (permalink)
TribalRats Take Responsibility Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Central Valley, CA Posts: 3,327 Rep Power: 143	I had a mentor that bred until the dogs were between 9-10 years old. Granted this did not come to light until she had been my mentor for well over a year. She also bred them back to back, claiming that her vet had told her it was best for the dogs. Regardless, just because a mentor does something does not mean they are correct. There are many in the field of show dogs that have stellar reputations only to find out once you get behind the scenes that they have these stellar reps because the public only has a small glimpse of what is actually taking place. Common sense will tell you that over breeding causes many health issues not only for your bitch but for your puppies as well. 4 times is more then enough in my opinion, I would certainly not breed her again. Breeding practices and the lack of overall concern for the well being of the bitch are the reasons I left the show world to begin with. Granted not everyone has a lack of concern however you would be truly stunned to find out who says one thing and behind closed doors does the exact opposite.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

08-09-2007, 03:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
briarlow Join Date: May 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 521 Rep Power: 62	4 times is the most I would ever breed a dog and again it would all depend upon how many pups she'd had, whether she was fully healthy and I don't mean a basic vet check, I mean hipscored, eyetested etc. etc. and what she had produced previously improved on the breed. If not then why bother breeding if the pups produced are nothing ike the breed they should be? I usually only breed 3 times and that's usually at the ages of around 2, 5 and 7. I have one girl at the moment whom I'm contemplating having another litter from and she's had 3 litters but the numbers are equivalent to other bitches having 2 litters. I am only contemplating this as she's a good example of the breed, has clear eyes, a below average hipscore, a lovely temperament, her pups have fantastic temperaments and I've had the offer of using a top dog from the breeds country of origin.
	__________________ My dogs aren't my whole life but they make my life http://www.freewebs.com/briarlowsspanishwaterdogs

08-09-2007, 09:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
Flutterby Royal Star Estates Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond, KS Posts: 192 Rep Power: 33	For a small breed, I'd stop around 6, maybe 7 if she was in exceptional health, but that would definitely be an exception. I'll breed my small dogs around 2 and 4 or 5, and maybe once more around 6. My larger dogs, I'd breed around 2 or 3, then 4 or 5. Lanie And The Zoo Royal Star Estates freewebs.com/royalstarestates

08-10-2007, 06:24 AM	#15 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 282	I think much of it depends on the breed as well as each individual female. I have Bulldogs which are bred by AI and have C sections, Bulldogs are also known for their shorter life spans and because of those things my females are only bred twice in their lifetime. I've only had one bitch that was bred three times ( first time was a singleton pup ) because I felt she could handle it well and I've had a few that were only bred once. I don't breed until at least two years of age ( prefer to wait until three ) and refuse to breed after four years of age. I guess I feel that a dam is entitled to a break, she shouldn't have to spend the majority of her adult life being bred and should have a chance to enjoy her life. To me, breeding a bitch past the age of five in any breed makes me a bit sad for the dam but I understand that each individual has their own way of looking at it. jmo
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~ Gerry Spence As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

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