Questions re: raw bones

[Sophie45]

I have unsuccessfully attempted to feed Sophie raw meaty bones a few times, but then (thanks to Kuchi!) realized that this might be because I was overzealous, and did not introduce raw meaty bones slowly to her, but rather let her have entire large marrow and knuckle bones in one sitting, under the assumption that this was fine. Sophie would get horrible, smelly diarrhea, so I stopped, thinking she simply cannot tolerate raw bones.

Well, I want to start again because I recognize the benefits of feeding raw bones, as well as the fact that Sophie LOVED them more than anything else. I started doing some more research (which I did do prior to giving her any raw bones, too) and just ran across this website:

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/bones.html-


"I will share with you just a few examples of many where a dog has been very seriously harmed by ingesting bones...YES, EVEN RAW BONES!

It is my belief that feeding bones to dogs is not perfectly safe to do. Many experienced and knowledgeable veterinarians feel the same. Yes, there are some veterinarians who encourage the feeding of raw, whole bones. Pet owners must decide for themselves what really makes sense and what just seems like a good thing to do. Lets go right to the first x-rays, below left, and I will show you a case that was presented to Dr. Ray Goodroad in Rhinelander, Wisconsin in December, 1998. This hound of about 75 pounds was found by his owner feeding on a dead deer carcass. The dog became very lethargic, attempted unsuccessfully to vomit and pass stool, and was dehydrated. This dog was feeding NATURALLY on RAW BONES....

...Now, for those of you who state with confidence that "Wolves in the wild eat bones all the time; so it must be OK for dogs to do the same", I would ask you this... How many times have you even seen a healthy wolf? How can you state with authority that wolves are NOT occasionally harmed by a bone splinter? I can tell you this: If a wolf unluckily happens to become disabled by intestinal bone fragments such as the dogs in these examples were, the wolf's cousins would dispatch the sick wolf in moments...

...Just for fun, though, lets assume there are great benefits to be derived from feeding bones, but with that benefit comes the slight chance that drastic major surgery may be needed to save your dog's life as a result of feeding those bones...WHY DO IT??!! Very nutritious foods are available, some have ground bone as part of the recipe and the ground bone poses no threat."

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on these statements, especially those who are experienced in feeding their dogs raw bones-do you ever worry about this? I called my vet, who does not recommend giving raw bones. I take this with a grain of salt, however, because I think a LOT of vets are just uneducated and unaware of anything besides traditional, dry kibble feeding. I called at least ten vets in my area, and only one condoned feeding raw meaty bones. My vet has never even heard of Pitcairn, much to my dismay....

Also, if I do decide to start giving raw bones, what are some good, smaller ones to start to build up her stomach that are safe?

Thanks, guys!

[britishbandit]

Yes, even raw bones can cause problems, if the dog doesn't chew them up well. I always supervise when giving raw meat on the bone, no matter what, even knowing my dogs chew things up really well and tend to take their time with them. I also watched them VERY closely at first to make sure they did chew em up good. But I'm sure if either of them approached one another while eating a bone, if it was almost done, they'd gulp it down real fast without chewing. So I make sure that doesn't happen, and am quick to call either of them over if they approach the other.

As far as wolves in the wild, this may or may not happen, but their pack order is usually firmly set in place, only the young uns would ever "challenge" or approach a higher ranked dog, the rest of them know better not to, and a higher ranked dog approaching a lower ranked the lower would give it up without much trouble.

The idea of ground up meat on bones is a great one, and no risk of obstruction, but defeats part of the purpose of feeding raw bones. Seeing as many like to use this as a way of keeping the teeth clean and healthy.

[Rivsky]

I went through this whole do I or don't I saga with River as a puppy - my vet at the time was adamantly against raw bones but from growing up I'd always considered it a normal part of having a dog.

I agree with BB - the way I look it I think if they are properly supervised so you're on hand should something go wrong then the benefit of feeding raw bones far outweighs the risk.

I've seen the teeth of a few dogs who are fed mainly kibble and or canned diets and they are absolutely revolting and their breath is rancid as well. So I'd rather face the small risks feeding raw bones takes to have a dog with healthy teeth and gums.

[Sophie45]

Thanks, guys-any more input is appreciated. I forgot to mention that of course I will always watch her like a hawk while chewing on the bones, and luckily Sophie is a very slow and thorough chewer, but I would always have her in the same room as me the whole time.

What's a good bone to start her on? I hate to get a big one and have to take it away from her in the middle of it. She is very good at giving me things whenever I want it, and has never ever shown a single sign of aggression towards me or growled over her toys or food, but I don't want her to start thinking that I am going to snatch her bones away! Are chicken wings or necks good to start with or are they too small for a big dog?

[linnie]

I really like brisket bones ( for my dogs that is lol )
they are softer bone. Also chicken legs with the sharp little side bone and knuckle taken off.
As with any food there can be a problem but I think the benefit of raw bones for your dog outweighs the negatives personally

[Rivsky]

I personally wouldn't be comfortable feeding chicken wings and necks to a larger sized dog - I don't even feed them to River for fear he'd just gulp them straight down.

You should be able to get your butcher to cut bones into what ever size you ask them - I even get them to cut chicken carcuses in half for me. I think the general guide with bones is to make sure they're too big to swallow whole then you know they're big enough.

[Sophie45]

Thanks, I'm going to go back to the butcher's. I'm sure they will remember me, because last time I went in I asked for green tripe and/or beef hearts, and they thought I was a complete loon until I explained it was for my dog, and even then I'm not sure how much I redeemed myself....lol Guess not many people around here ask for green tripe of beef hearts!

[calgal]

Dogs need calcium which can be given in powdered form and they need to chew on something hard for teeth and jaw muscle, but they don't need to actually eat the bone to do that. Beef marrow bones are excellent for chewing on.

[GSD]

anything can happen no matter what you feed. I have never taken my dogs to the vet for anything related to their diets, both have been raw fed their entire lives, even at weening they are fed raw. My youngest, just turned a year and has had bones since I brought her home at 9 weeks.

Of all my dog training friends, I'd say its about half and half that feed RAW and those that don't. I don't recall any of them ever needing any vet visit because of what they're fed, bones or no bones. I know entire kennels that are entirely RAW fed. They get truckloads of frozen stuff delivered directly to them and they don't have any problems with obstructions or choking, or dogs dying or being in ill health because of being fed RAW.

In fact I think everyone i've ever known personally and have seen their dogs have been nothing short of impressed with their dogs improvements in health, appearance, and energy feeding raw.

I've only ever had 3 experiences with dogs and obstructions. 1 was a swallowed squeeker from a squeeky toy, 1 was from a bowel problem where the peristaltic action would cause the bowel to more less swallow itself, and the other was from cancer in the stomach.

so sure an obstruction can happen, but its more likely to be something else IMO. I'd like vets to put up all their xrays from obstuction cases, let me know how many are due to being RAW fed and how many are due to chewed toys, other things dogs find and swallow, dogs digging thru trash, or physiological causes. I doubt we'll ever see that data, cause its easier to scare people when you only have to present partial truths.


oh, and bones to start with, I'd start with chicken wings, easy, soft and managable. Myself, I just give them what I give them. My youngest was chomping down pork neck bones at 10 weeks, cause she stole it from the older dog. I would start with softer smaller ones, and use your judgment on how they're eating them and adjust accordingly.