A few Questions about Innova EVO

[Tiffany0204]

After reading Bigdoglover's thread about dog food, and I started to look around a little bit after reading about Innova EVO. I'm interested in putting Gizmo on that when he gets older, but I read on a website that EVO is an "all stages" dog food, meaning that puppies/adults/seniors can eat it.

Is this true? If so then I think I might switch him over sooner. If not then I'll probrably keep him on the Wellness Super5 Puppy until he's out of the puppy food stage.

Thanks!

[Barrett]

I tried Innova Evo for 5 months. It is a great dog food but Lucy wouldn't eat it. She didn't like the taste. I would have to beg and plead and play games with her for an hour before she ate her little 1/8 cup meal. Bailey loved it but she gained weight on it. I cut back the amount I was giving her and exercised her longer each week and I couldn't keep her weight down. Once I went back to Precise she was at her normal weight in a month. The employee at the store told me regular Innova is better for small breed dogs that don't need much exercise. The Evo has too much protien and small dogs don't need that much. I don't know about this being true, I never researched it. I must say that both Bailey and Lucy's coats were much softer at the end of the 5 months. They have thin hair and it was definetly thicker and softer on the Innova. My poor bald little babies...do they make Rogain for dogs? LOL!!

[GreenleafGreyhound]

Yup, EVO and Innova (regular) are both all life-stages food. Therefore, it is entirely possible to feed either food throughout your dog's life. The same can be said for Canidae and other similar foods, although most companies have churned out a multitude of puppy and senior formulas. In fact, many large dog breed owners are turning to all life-stages foods like regular Innova and Canidae because they believe these foods help control the rapid growth, rather than spur it on.

You probably already read my post in the previous thread, but EVO has personally worked wonders for Lucky, my Peke. Like I mentioned, he was doing okay on Wellness and was producing nice, firm poops. However, his coat was looking a bit dreary and there was a noticeable lightening in his facial hair (LOL!!!). I've also heard that Wellness tends to make Afghan Hounds' coats 'wooly' as well. As soon as I switched him off to EVO, he actually lost a pound or two, bringing him down to 18-19-ish pounds of pure muscle. It was absolutely heartwarming to see those unneeded pounds melt away into muscle. On top of that, his mask grew in a darker black and his "spectacles" have darkened as well. He really does look and act younger!

[Mom2Many]

Although this doesn't really concern the original poster I would like to add that Evo is too high in protien for a large breed puppy, it is better to start on the Innova and switch to Evo once the dog is at least a year old.

[Spiritus]

Dogs either love it or hate it. In my opinion, Evo is the closest we can get to feeding raw without actually feeding raw. It is 100% meat with just enough preservative to keep it from spoiling. My 100 lb dog eats 1 3/4 cups per day - and still gains weight. Because it is so high in protien/fat, very little needs to be fed.

Where I live, EVO is very expensive, and even though my six dogs eat less of it, it is still too expensive to feed to them all ($70.00 per bag). The only dog we have on EVO is our Great Pyr, and that is because since being put on EVO, she has not had an ear infection.... that is 6 months of no ear infections with a dog who was a walking ear infection. We were always treating her. She is also acting like a puppy again.... she's amazing!

If Gizmo is a smaller dog, and is more or less finished growing, you could put him on EVO now. Buy a small bag at first to ensure that he likes it - better yet, ask your supplier if they have a sample for you to try first.

Charlotte

Spiritus BSD's

[sammy]

Sammy eats EVO , Roise will transition to EVO one we've had her a while and I will do it VERY Gradually.

I had trouble getting Sammy onto EVO because he needed fattening up-and if you overfeed Evo you often get diarrrhea.

Sammy tends to be too skinny on EVo-- its like its a bit too Atkins or Southbeach diet for him LOL- he needs those carbs to gain weight.

I have heard of dogs getting fat on it and also being like sammy.

I hope Rosie will lose weight on it-- poor girl gets fat so easy. (isn't that typical- the skinny guy can eat anything and stay thing. The fat girl is on a diet all her life and will always be fat)

[Tiffany0204]

Well I don't think he's done his growing yet, so I guess it'll be best to wait until he's finished? He's only 4.5 months old, so I'm imaginging that he's got some growing left to do.

He loves eating the Wellness though, I wonder if he'll have a hard time transitioning from that to EVO.

[Barrett]

Buy a sample bag and give it to him as treats until you switch him over.

[Mom2Many]

Originally Posted by Tiffany0204

Well I don't think he's done his growing yet, so I guess it'll be best to wait until he's finished? He's only 4.5 months old, so I'm imaginging that he's got some growing left to do.

He loves eating the Wellness though, I wonder if he'll have a hard time transitioning from that to EVO.

You don't need to wait to put Gizmo on Evo since he is not a large breed dog.

If your dog loves his Wellness though why even switch? Wellness is another excellent food, certainly close to Evo even if it does contain some grains.

[Tiffany0204]

Personally I don't think the Wellness is doing that great for him. He's always scratching, scratching, scratching and his poops are never soild or firm on it. His Giardia is cleared up so I know it's not that, and I"m feeding the recommended dose so I know it's not overfeeding as well.

Also, (another bonus) when I was pricing it today, it's pretty much the same price as the Wellness. They gave me a sample bag today to test out if he likes it, and holy wow, does he ever! its' like feeding him a treat. Funny... I remember people saying that dogs either love it or hate it, and Giz definitly loves it!

[GreenleafGreyhound]

Just to clarify, EVO is NOT 100% meat. You will never find a kibble that has no type of carbs, unless, of course, the kibble was dehydrated meat and in that case, it probably would not be considered kibble. Healthy Kitchen foods, for example, consist of dehydrated meat and veggies and it is not considered kibble. EVO does not contain grains, but it does contain a healthy amount of potatoes because all kibbles need that to bind it together and increase shelf-life. While it is no-grain, it is certainly not no-carb

[sammy]

no it's certainly not no carb but it is significantly lower carb than other kibble.
I haven't found I could feed less even though the calorie content is higher. Sammy maintained his weight on 2 cups / day of Innova adult and I'm having to feed 3 cups per day of EVO now which I am attributing to lower carb content. I can't imagine another reason- but maybe there's something I'm missing.
I don't want to hi jack the thread- but I wonder if others have had this problem.
(I would like to use Evo because I would like to do some raw and I feel better about raw + evo than I do raw + other kibble.)
Also-- for those that feed Wellness- Old Mother Hubbard was bought out by a larger company recently and I'm told they have downgraded their ingredients and now include some that are not considered fit for human consumption- the vitamin K supplement for example. I also had trouble with Wellness causing Sammy to have lots of tartar buildup- the price you pay for a baked food rather than extruded I guess.

[Spiritus]

Yes, I mucked up. Here's the ingredient list of Innova Evo.

Turkey
Chicken
Turkey Meal
Chicken Meal
Potatoes
Herring Meal
Chicken Fat
Natural Flavors
Egg
Garlic
Apples
Carrots
Tomatoes
Cottage Cheese
Alfalfa Sprouts
Dried Chicory Root
Taurine
Lecithin
Rosemary Extract
Vitamins/Minerals
Viable Naturally Occurring Microorganisms

No grains - that's the important thing as far as I am concerned.

Charlotte
Spiritus Reg'd BSD's

[Tiffany0204]

Interesting point Sammi made on the Wellness comment. Funny you mention that, because just when I bought my last bag of Wellness there's some sort of "We did it!" sticker on there, saying that they've made the food more "tasty" for the dogs, although when comparing the ingredients, nothing really had changed.

Hmmm... just did some research, and found this:

Originally Posted by The Dog Food Project

Formula Changes, New Products and Reorganization
Mordanna | October 10, 2005 2:24 am

In the past few days, I have made the following updates:

1. The entire Old Mother Hubbard's Wellness line of dog food (with exception of the "Simple Food Solutions" products) has undergone a makeover, changing the formulas considerably. Super5Mix Puppy, Super5Mix Chicken, Super5Mix Lamb, Fish & Sweet Potato, Senior SuperMix and Weight Management all have different ingredient lists now, with decreased amounts of omega fatty acids and downgraded ratios, smaller amounts of holistic ingredients like herbs and probiotics (some have even been removed completely) and all of them contain menadione now.

But at the top of the page, I see that most lines are taking Medinone out of their lines. There was a link for "What is Menadione" and found this:

Originally Posted by The Dog Food Project

Menadione (Vitamin K3)

One of the more obscure ingredients found in many pet foods are menadione derivatives - in the form of menadione sodium bisulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite or menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite, often listed as "a source of vitamin K activity" or "vitamin K supplement". Unless otherwise noted, these compounds are summarily referred to as "menadione" in this article to make it easier to read.
What is it?

Menadione, also known as vitamin K3, is a synthetic version of vitamin K. The natural occuring compounds are vitamin K1 (Phylloquinone, from plant sources) and Vitamin K2 (Menaquinone, synthesized by bacteria in the digestive tract and absorbed by the body). Technically menadione isn't even a vitamin, but a precursor that is converted in the body after ingestion. Natural vitamin K is fat soluble, while menadione derivatives (pure menadione can not be processed) are water soluble and bypass the natural pathway of utilization by the body.
Why is it added to pet food?

Menadione is added as an inexpensive vitamin K supplement in commercial foods. The common statement as to why it is added is "to help with blood clotting", yet it is scientifically proven that the effectivity of menadione on blood clotting is inferior. Even veterinarians will administer vitamin K1 as an antidote to dogs who have for example ingested rat poison, which causes internal bleeding.

Manufacturers who use menadione in their products also like to claim that it is "more stable" than natural vitamin K and has "more nutritional value". Not a single one of them has acknowledged the scientifically proven side effects of this substance.

It is simple to come to a conclusion about the truth in these statements when you consider that

• not all pet food companies add menadione to their foods and dogs have eaten these products for years without developing deficiencies

• the National Research Council was not able to demonstrate a dietary requirement for vitamin K in dogs during tests when natural ingredients were fed

• fish meals, liver and green plant supplements (e.g. alfalfa, kelp and other seaweed, nettle leaf, blue-green algae, spirulina) are rich sources of natural vitamin K.

Why is it bad?

It has been difficult for me to compose this article in English, since I had to translate most of my information from literature originally written in German. My search for relevant, unbiased sources in English was not very successful, with exception of some obscure references and texts that provided some information but do not include all the facts. There were also many articles written by authors who didn't even have the basic knowledge to differentiate between vtiamin K1, K2 and K3.

Here is a list of effects of menadione on the body. It is incomplete, since I was simply not able to translate the more complicated scientific phrases into proper English:


Why is it bad?

• causes formation of radicals from enzymes of leucocytes, with the consequence of cytotoxic reactions

• considerably weakens the immune system

• possible mutagenic effects

• damages the natural vitamin K cycle

• has no effect on coumarin derivatives, which are often present in commercial food due to mold contamination (toxic when ingested)

• causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses

• disturbs the level of calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body, which is an important factor fibrinolysis

• is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K

• builds up in tissue and has been detected in eggs, meat and milk of animals supplemented with menadione derivatives

• causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes

• causes allergic reactions and eczema

Hmm... I had no idea about that type of overhaul on Wellness. All I saw was "New and Improved taste!". Argh. This looks like a good site, here's the link for those who want to vist the site. After reading all that I'm definitly switching Gizmo.

[sammy]

Yup-- Mordy knows her stuff about feeding dogs. I ask her all my dog nutrition questions. She (I *think* I'm getting this right) is just finishing up her animal nutrtion & care degree out of the U of Guelph.
Menadione is one of the things most people don't know about-- but if it has been outlawed in people food as a suspected carcinogen then I'm not feeding it to my dogs!
It always sucks when a great dog company gets bought out by a large company- the quality of the food always goes down. That's another reason why I am partial to Nuturapet products (makers on Innova, Evo, California Natural, Karma organics). They also have excellent customer service- if you e-mail them a question you will get a prompt and thorough reply very unlike some other companies.