Bloodlines, genetics, etc.. etc.. Any breeder on board?

[greekblue]

I have some questions.

Everytime, Niki has been sick the last couple months, the answer from the breeder (she has Niki's dad) is that all her littermates are healthy, so Niki will be fine.
I asked her (I know a little late) to tell me if there was any problems with Niki's parents or bloodline in general when Niki thought to have kidney or lung issues and now that she has this issue with pain and they think it looks like spinal cord compression or even what people told me Pano although they think the pain she experiences seems more serious than that.
I was only asking to at least know what to check first if I need to check anything at all.

The answer is always the same; Niki's littermates are all healthy. No answer about parents, bloodlines, etc. Once when Niki was sick, she told me to check Niki for addisson's disease -- a non - life threatening disorder she said. Well, first, from what I know (correct me if I am wrong), addisson's disease can be life threatening and need a lot and expensive care throughout the lifetime of the dog and check ups in order to keep it non-life threatening.

Now, how far a condition can be passed in the bloodlines? For example, Niki's cousin from her mom's side (first or second cousin) has mild hip dysplasia. from how far in the bloodline could he have gotten this condition? Could Niki get a condition like that from that bloodline since her cousin has it. I do not understand a lot about how that works, so I might confuse you. Your thoughts and responses might help clear up my questions.

Also, could all other littermates be healthy, but only one to have gotten a hereditary condition coming from the bloodlines? Is her argument, that since all Niki's littermates are healthy, I need not to worry about bloodlines, genetics, and such, sound?
Could all her cousin's littermates be completely healthy and only that one puppy got mild hip dysplacia?

I think conditions that run in the bloodlines can affect only one puppy while the others may happen to be completely healthy, but again I know nothing about those things and I am only trying to make an educated guess -- even though it might sound not well thought out.

The breeder is a doctor, so I assume she knows better, but again she evades the question about conditions in the bloodline of her dog or the bitch.

Let me know what you think.

Here is what I received as part of her (she has Niki's dad) response along with assurance that Niki is fine since all her littermates are fine.
"She (Niki) is a very special girl; I still cannot believe that the breeder (who has Niki's mom) has agreed to sell her to you "

I think that was rude sarcasm. grrrr.....

[GSD]

what type of contract do you have with the breeder? Do you know the parent's names? the health of the littermates is important to a degree, but I wouldn't let her off with that as an answer. How old is your dog? What does your vet say the problem is? Hereditary or not?

[greekblue]

There was no conntract -- I got my dog from another country (Latvia). Both parents are multichampions in European and International dog shows. I know the names, I have met here in US, the woman who has the sire after I got my dog, so she has seen the puppy here in US after I got her; she is the one I did all the dealing with and she is the one I talk about all this stuff. She is very nice, seems interest in the puppies she gives out, and she is involved, and has given me suggestions. However, it all ends with, the other littermates are healthy, so she is fine.

The vet cannot know at this point, but they think (more than one opinion on that), that it looks like spinal cord compression. However, they only gave me Tramadol and anti-inflamatory meds at this point to see if that is going to help. They did say that it could be growing pains, but they said that it seems that is more than that because the pain she experiences is too extreme. On the other hand, the ER doctor did not want me to start doing tests yet until we see how the anti-inflamatory meds will help. He does think though that my dog should see a neurologist for a better approach and if the episodes of pain happens again even with the meds, then, she needs to have an MRI and xrays of her whole skeleton. They do not do that, they just said that I should talk to my regular vet about taking the dog to a neurologist.
The problem since the dog has NOT been injured can be genetic in large breed dogs and has to do with the way the dog is built (that is the ERs words). She is a 62 - 65 pound very large breed 8 month old female puppy. She is also very tall.

Now, I was not trying to blame the breeder when I was asking her questions about the parents, bloodlines, etc, and honestly a contract would have made very little difference (if any) to me if something was truly wrong with my puppy. I ADORE this dog and nothing she could give me could have made a difference if my dog was hurt. I was only trying to see if there was really something she might new about anything like that or similar, at least could give us a start of what to look for or a suggestion about what to do even if there were growing pains. She gives suggestions about rest, nutrition, etc., but she does not answer to my questions about the parents's bloodline, health, etc., and that is what it bothers me. If she could even had explained how the genetics, bloodline issues, etc. work and how there was not such or similar conditions to her lines, etc., or these types of conditions are only to individual large breed dogs and could not be passed on from older bloodlines or the parents, I would feel better. But she says NOTHING except that all my puppy's littermates are healthy, so she will also be fine.

I do not even say that necessarily is something horrible with the puppy. Maybe, it is indeed growing pains (Pano), but when a vet says that you might want to check something else also, to me you start looking for info early! If it ends up been no spinal cord problem -- good for the puppy and for me -- but if it is more serious, how could I have known? Is it better to ask, research, do a couple extra trips to the vet, rather than regretting later that you did not pay attention to signs?

I do worry and panic easily, but I am not making things up myself. The puppy is been sick on and off since she turned 5 months old. Three times (including the last couple days I was talking about), she could not move and walk. People at the stores we were each time, helped me lift her and take her to my car. It could be just one of those puppies -- like kids -- that are sensitive and get sick and feel pain easily. Fine, but how can I know?? That is why I am asking questions to know what to expect, what to do, etc.

The vet (I was next to her and heard it too), heard a popping / crack sound when she was moving the dog's elbow two days ago. She said we wait and see. Niki's cousin from her mom's side has very mild hip dysplacia. Should I check Niki for that or her cousin's condition could never be part of Niki's history. Niki's grandfather is her cousin's dad.

Really, if all the littermates are healthy, does that mean that not even one puppy could have gotten a hereditary disease?

I do not know if you get my points. I was asking the breeder honest questions, with no intense to offend or blame.

What would you think if the breeder of the puppy you got sent you a statement like the one she sent me in one of the emails after I was asking questions about health issues in the bloodlines, health from the mother's side etc.?

[nor'eastr]

<<Really, if all the littermates are healthy, does that mean that not even one puppy>> <<could have gotten a hereditary disease? >>

It sounds like the breeder is giving you the run around. I went through a similar thing with a breeder I had thought was responsible. She had the right contract, health tests, etc. but when it came down to finding answers for my sick dog she blew me off.
Yes, one dog from a litter could possibly get sick.

<<What would you think if the breeder of the puppy you got sent you a statement <<likethe one she sent me in one of the emails after I was asking questions about <<health issues in the bloodlines, health from the mother's side etc.?

I wouldn't think very highly of them.

How is Nicki doing? I noticed this thread is a couple weeks old.

[Kymcole25]

First of all, not having a contract is a little scary for me to read! It seems very weird that a breeder would every sell a puppy without a contract, no matter how responsible he/she is!!

But to answer your questions:
Bloodline info ranges from breed to breed...A dog could develop a health issue from a 1st generation relative, as easy as it could a 9th generation relative...basically, once the issue is in the line it can come up at any time down the road.

Yes, it is totally possible for Niki to be the only one in the litter to have a health issue. I don't know much about your breed, although I would love to learn more. But with my guys, in a litter of 6, only 1 could be affected with a health issue and it wouldn't come as a surprise.

As for addisons disease, my boyfriends 5yo Beagle was just diagnosed in October with it, after having a couple seizures, and severe weight issues...she has to go in for routine steroid shots every other month, and it can get quite costly. All in all, the vet has given the dog 2-3 more years of life at this early stage.

Did you ever get a copy of Niki's pedigree? It sounds a little funny to hear that Niki's grandfather, is her cousin's father.

[greekblue]

Yes, I do have her Pedigree. I have to ask about this info again. That dog's father is either Niki's grand-father or Niki's great/grand - father.

[Kymcole25]

I can't seem to figure out how that works, that's the only reason I ask!

It seems like Niki's grandfather was bread with one of it's own offspring.

[greekblue]

No, I think I confused you -- sorry.
I have to go, but I will find out and make it clearer soon.

[Carrie]

I am so sorry to hear your dog is sick and having problems. It is totally possible for genes from way back to skip generations and individual dogs and then whamo....show up in a random descendent. Genes are funny things. That is why, no matter how "line bred" dogs are...how careful breeders are to not breed too closely, these defects still pop up. The gene pools in almost all purebred dogs are not diverse enough AT ALL...all the dogs in a breed are traced back to just a very few early ancestors. If there were defects, they will find their way through the family tree at some point or another. And then there are mutations which occur from time to time, adding to the odds of defects. That's why purebred dogs are in such trouble.

If your dog started showing things at only 5 months of age, I think I'd pursue this breeder relentlessly even if you have to do it in a round about way....asking other breeders what they know about her past dogs. Maybe see if you can talk to any other purchasers of her puppies, even past puppies. I don't know how you'd be able to get in touch with them.

What diagnostics is the vet planning on doing? I'd want to get to the bottom of what exactly are all the problems Niki is having. Is this breed prone to cervical vertbral instability? (Wobbler's syndrom) I should think the vet could figure out what is going on. I sure hope these things can be diagnosed positively and treated/managed. What a lot of distress this has to be causing you and poor Niki. I'm so sorry.