Syn-flex and Gluco-flex

[greekblue]

Are Syn-flex and Gluco-flex only for senior dogs or only for dogs who already have arthritis, or they can be given to any age of large breed dogs who need to be taking glucosamine for prevention?

[GSD]

I'm not aware of animal studies, but for humans, Glucosamine has been shown to be beneficial for people with arthritis (joint infalmation). Not many have been done to show prevention, as it would take years and years, lots of people and lots of money, so none have been done to my knowledge.

On another positive note, many studies have shown that GS has actually stopped the degeneration of arthritic joints over a 3-4 year period as demonstrated on xray and symptoms improved about 25%. (i'm not aware of any studies done longer) whereas the groups taking nothing or placebo got worse by as much as 25% on xray and much worse symptoms.

I think its important if you're going to use Glucosamine to use glucosamine sulfate. Studies involving that type have shown consistently positive results (human studies) and those that have not shown positive results have mostly been Glucosamine attached with Chloride, HCL, NaCL, etc.

[greekblue]

Thank you GSD. The one I was using up to now is from my vet and is called COSEQUIN DS (chewable tablets). Each tablet contains: Glucosamine Hydrochloride 99%, Sodium Chontroitin Sulfate 95% (low molecular weight), Ascorbic Acid, Mangasnese. Is the sulfate in these igredients the one you recommented? This bottle is quite expensive and I was trying to see if there is anything cheaper and also good. Is these ingredients good? Also, I use it as a prevention to an 8 month old large breed puppy (she will be over 100 pounds fully grown).
Thank you.

[GSD]

OK, back to human studies, Glucosamine hydrochloride is not so effective, BUT it does have Chondroitin Sulfate, which has been proven to be effective.

Lots of studies have shown Glucosamine Sulfate and Chondroitin Sulfate to be beneficial in relieving and slowing the progression of joint degeneration. These have all been studied as SEPERATE supplements.

Since they've both been shown to be beneficial, lots of manufacturer's have decided to market the both together is better than one idea. In theory its great, but it has never been proven.

Now, I would usually start with GS (glucosamine sulfate) its cheaper, chondroitin sulfate is much more expensive. If the GS didn't work I'd use CS, usually when one doesn't work for someone, the other can.

Or you can just spend the extra bucks, get them both together, especially if its working, you'd hate to try and fix something that ain't broke so to speak.

[dogs4life]

Originally Posted by greekblue

The one I was using up to now is from my vet and is called COSEQUIN DS (chewable tablets).

Instead of supplementing, have you looked into adding natural collagen or cartilage to her diet? There are many sources from poultry, seafood and hooved animals you can try either cooked or raw.

[greekblue]

Dogs4life, I have not looked at that altough I think Niki eats very healthy. However, I will have to put her back to kibble (California Natural) only because she still has stomach problems off and on. She is fine for a while, and all of a sudden she gets sick again. Whatever she eats does NOT change all the time, so I have to try and find out what is bothering her. Sometimes, she will have firm stools the morning, soft stools later and vice versa the same day. Other days, she will have soft stools the whole day (they look firm until you pick them up and they get smashed; gross). Today, out of nowhere she got diarrea again. Hopefully, it is only temporary. I do not know what to do anymore. It seems as if the inconsistency in her stools and occationally diarrea is something normal for her to get once in a while. It is frustrating. I do not know what to feed her anymore, so I am just staying with the same stuff I am feeding her, and I am afraid to try anything new. No matter what I am feeding her, since she hit 5 months, she has not been normal. She was eating the same things before she hit 5 months and she was doing fine -- she hit 5 months old and she has not been the same and we cannot find anything wrong with her. Her blood tests, urinalysis, some xrays all came normal. I guess, she either needs deeper tests or is normal to be like that. She got me broke, that for sure.

[dogs4life]

Adding natural collagen is really easy, if you prefer cooked, you simmer chicken necks and wings for 8-12 hours, strain all the bones out and refrigerate upto a week. You just add a bit of the "collagen broth" to her kibble or what ever food you are feeding. When you refrigerated it, it's really solid chicken jello. If you are OK with raw, you can feed 1/2 a neck or a small wing with some of her meals. You can also buy Beef gullet and trachea from butchers which is great too.

Sorry her stool is not constant, is she eating something on the side? Is she snacking or chewing on something she shouldn't be?

OT a bit...was she tested for parasites and/or Irritable Bowel Disease? Also it's strange that it started at 5 months, it makes me wonder about vaccine induced inflammation. What is she vaccinated against and how did you give them...all at once or one at a time, combos or no combos? Sometimes when we vaccinate our animals their immune system gets overstimulated and causes lots of inflammation through out the body, if her bowels are inflamed which would explain the sporadic bouts of loose stools.

[greekblue]

She finished her vaccination the week after she turned 4 months old. She started at seven weeks old and she was vaccinated every three weeks until 4 months. I have all her paper work, but I have to look at it to tell you exactly what she was vaccinated for. It is just the standard they do here. Some names I remember was Bordatella (or something like that), rabbies and parvo (her last set of vaccinations), and.....

She does not eat anything that I do not know. She is constantly with me, so I watch her closely. Even the treats I give her are 2 - 3 different brands constantly, never changing. She gets very healthy Pet Votanics Tuna treats, Milkbone bisquits, and sometimes Turkey jerky treats (made in US). The way I have her food schedule and treats it is hard to say that she eats something she is not supposed to. She does not constantly change treats or food; she only alternates among these 2 - 3 brands only. She always eats these treats only and the types of food I give her. The only extra thing she ever eats is on special occations three dog bakery cupcake, and she will share with me a string cheese. They have checked before her stools for paracites, worms, etc., and everything came normal. It is sooo weird... How do they test for IBD? I do not know if that will show any impalance on the blood or urine, but if it does, we did comprehensive blood analysis and urinalysis, not too long ago, and all was normal. I might try your suggestion about natural collagen.

[dogs4life]

GSD is right about the supplements if you choose to supplement.

For prevention, I look at diet first since supplements don't always have all the components for healthy joints, that's all.

[dogs4life]

Originally Posted by greekblue

She finished her vaccination the week after she turned 4 months old. She started at seven weeks old and she was vaccinated every three weeks until 4 months. I have all her paper work, but I have to look at it to tell you exactly what she was vaccinated for. It is just the standard they do here. Some names I remember was Bordatella (or something like that), rabbies and parvo (her last set of vaccinations), and.....

Sometimes when we give lots of vaccines all at once to a dog that is not 100% healthy, it will cause inflammation also called vaccine allergic reaction and vaccinosis. The important part is how many diseases we vaccinated against in 1 shot, how many shot she got and how far apart they were to factor in adverse reactions. I was thinking vaccine induced inflammation since Niki had or still has recent spinal issues, irregular stools and seems to worry you. Theses all could be related or not and could be related to inflammation or maybe not. It was just a thought based on all your previous posts on her health.

She does not eat anything that I do not know. She is constantly with me, so I watch her closely. Even the treats I give her are 2 - 3 different brands constantly, never changing. She gets very healthy Pet Votanics Tuna treats, Milkbone bisquits, and sometimes Turkey jerky treats (made in US). The way I have her food schedule and treats it is hard to say that she eats something she is not supposed to. She does not constantly change treats or food; she only alternates among these 2 - 3 brands only. She always eats these treats only and the types of food I give her. The only extra thing she ever eats is on special occations three dog bakery cupcake, and she will share with me a string cheese. They have checked before her stools for paracites, worms, etc., and everything came normal. It is sooo weird...

I know it seems strict, but maybe try no treats for a couple weeks to see if one of the treats is causing a problem. If you do use treats, maybe use grain-free treats like plain baked fish or plain baked chicken breast bits to keep the processed foods to a minimum.

Has she drank water from puddles, streams, lakes or ponds? It's not related to inflammation or vaccines, but really a parasite. One of my dogs had whipworm (got it from a puddle in a field) that was missed by 2 vets, I had to give stool samples to a friend at a vet school for the diagnosis, it's rare in most counties but it is out there and difficult to detect. It could also be giardia or other parasites that are difficult to diagnose. Sometimes vets will treat a dog eventhough the fecals are non-conclusive. There are natural therapies as well you can try if you suspect parasites.

How do they test for IBD? I do not know if that will show any impalance on the blood or urine, but if it does, we did comprehensive blood analysis and urinalysis, not too long ago, and all was normal.

IBD is diagnosed in different ways and depends on the vet. Some vets will diagnose on a thorough interview and exam maybe a blood test to look for inflammatory factors in your dog's blood. Some will just change your dog's diet to a proven IBD diet, give medication (steroids or anti-inflammatory) and infer from the response that it's IBD. Some will do endoscpopy and/or biopsy. It's a relatively mis-understood disease/condition but there seems to be more information on feline and human IBD than canine IBD out there but you can find it, it's out there.

Here are some links to check....
Inflammatory Bowel Disease
Re: Cooking for dog with IBD

I might try your suggestion about natural collagen.

It can be a little time consuming but if you think it will help, it might be worth checking into. I forgot to add, that chicken feet are good too. I've also seen chicken collagen with glucosamine sulfate and MSM formulations at the healthfood store if you feel you don't have time to make chicken jello. Here's a link to one that I found on-line, it's not the one I saw so there seems to be more than one out there...at least this will give you an idea. Premier Labs Neo Flex Advanced Joint Support