Has anyone ever heard of Prostaglandins?

[moonstar]

Hello everyone-
I was wondering if anyone here has heard of Prostaglandins and could explain to me exactly how they work in a dogs body? I have reason to believe my Daphney's heat cycles are compromised by them but can't grasp the HOW!!

Thank-you all for you time-Love the new looks ect.. How very nicely done!!

Sincerely, Debbie

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

PGs are hormone like substances but not hormones as they are not produced by glands, they are regulatory substances and messengers that include the regulation of many functions within the body including lowering blood pressure, the regulation of body temperature and even the action of certain hormones which can cause problems with fertility.

Do you remember ever hearing about human females checking their temperature to give a better idea of when their ovulating? The same is somewhat true in dogs and if the PGs are not doing their job correctly it can not only throw off ovulation but effect the hormones involved in estrus.

Is there a reason you believe the problem is on the cellular level or have you been told by your vet that there may be an auto-immune disorder?

[moonstar]

Thank-you for your reply-

So it is not that they are over abundent or over manufactured or that they react with each other, it is that they may not be working properly at all? They would be considered an auto-immune disorder? Could they show up in different aspects at the same time?

This is kinda a long story, but I will try to keep it as short as possible. When Daphney was a puppy and we are talking 7 years ago now, I noticed once while she was spending time with me off the show circuit she was regurgatating this egg white like phlegm. I mentioned to the Co-breder/handler as I thought she may have had kennel cough. Well that passed, wasn't kennel cough and all was well for awhile. Then it happened again, on and off this would happen till we noticed a corrulation to when it happened and her coming into heat. No one had an explaination? Once while she was staying at the Co-breeders this happened and she developed pneumonia, she was treated by their Vet and for some reason they also they did X-rays and a barium swallow and said she had scar tissue on her esophagus. They said to make her food mush so she could eat it and she wouldn't regurgatate? Now Daphney comes back to stay with me and this is still the routine, as she approaches heat, during heat and as she is coming out she is regurgatating this phegm. So I take her to my Vet at the time, she puts her on Pepcid and metocloprimide, prescribes Theophylline (which did help) and says looking at the tests and X-rays that were done they are inconclusive to the scar tissue? So we go on to this heat and it all starts again, no surprise!! Now all this time I am asking and talking with Vets and various people and no one can help tell me anything? I want to have her spayed but am hessitant till I get some answers. So this heat comes along and it has gotten worse, her breathing is labored and she is having trouble getting up this phlegm almost choking herself to do so. So off to the Vets we go, we do X-rays and bloodwork and everything is great, lungs clear, no sign of megasopagus, heart kidneys, liver values, fine. Just sounds extreamy congested like with a Upper Respitory problem. He is puzzled and thinks I have two heads when I tell him this only happens when she is in season otherwise she is perfectly happy!! Then next, one a.m. I wake up and let them out first thing as always and as she is coming back in up the steps I notice her left eye is all crusted and shut? Off to the Vets. My Vet was not in, we see another doctor. He thinks I have two heads when I explain this but does mention maybe a compromised immune system because of the cycle itself and the role of estrogen and progesteren. Daphney has seen one more Vet this heat cycle and I can't remember the occasion now but he also said maybe he could see that since the heat cycle is stressfull maybe she is compromised? We put her on the Theophylline again about a week ago and she is doing much better but she is also almost out of heat. THANK-GOD!! This one was tough, I want to spay her but was concerned about the possible stricture and then this! So I have been researching and talking with people and someone mentioned PROSTAGLANDINS. I believe since they are in almost all living cells this is how she developed the esopagus problem (if there is one) the eye problem, and the heat cycle problem. I am just trying to put it all together at this point and do the right thing for her safety in putting her under, and for that matter coming out!!!
Hope this didn't get too long, I tryed to keep it short. I Thank-you for any thoughts or imput you may have.
Sincerely, Debbie

[Owned by Lucy]

Are only active locally. Only effects the cell that makes it.

Four Major Effects of Prostagrandins
1. Instigate inflammatory response including pain, fever.
2. Stimulates blood clotting or prevent clotting (depending on location)
3. Induction of unterine contraction and labor
4. Inhibit acid synthesis and increase secretion of protective mucus in the GI tract
5. Increase blood flow in kidneys
6. Promote constriction of bronchi associated with asthma.

The triggers for the PG's in each area is different. In the inflammatory response it is triggered by the increase of WBCs at the site of injury. Bronchi constriction is triggered by an allergen entering the lungs. A certain amount of pressure on the uterine wall causes the release of oxytosin which stimulates contraction. In all likelihood some hormone released during estres is causing a systemic release of PGs. If she is becoming this severely immunocompromised during her heat cycle this is also not normal. Since the symptoms are correlating with estres the most effective thing to prevent these problems (and problems with future pups) would be to spay her.

[moonstar]

Thank-you for your reply Lucy-

I am afraid I still am not getting it, Are PG's good or Bad? Is it possible if one thng goes array from PG abnormality other things can to at the same time?

I so want to understand the role they play in a dogs system. Daphney seems to have many of the things we talk about when talking about PG's going on at the same time during her heat cycle. Could it be because her immune system is so compromised during a heat cycle many systems have PG effects?

Sincerely, Debbie

[Owned by Lucy]

They are not good or bad. They do provide a specific function to the body, particularly the immune system and other regulatory actions. Excess amounts of PGs or PGs released at inappropriate times or places can and do cause physical symptoms. If there is a PG abnormality it would effects all cells that make that particular PG(s). Since it is occuring in mulitple systems and only during the heat cycle, it is more likely that some other hormone being released during that time is at the root.

The only thing that would be compromising her immune system during her heat cyccle would be blood loss. If the blood loss is not excessive (to the point of anemia) this immune problems due to blood loss are unlikely. If her immune system is becoming compromised during her heat cycle then that is an entirely different issue to be addressed and is not likely to be due to the PGs.

[doberkim]

not really true - some prostaglandins ARE associated with immunosuppression (PGE for instance) -- its a complicated pathway.

personally, i would spay her. the lack of hormonal fluctuation cant hurt.

[Owned by Lucy]

But the PGE in itself is not bad. There are instances when you want the immune system suppressed so it does serves a function. However if it is produced in excess or at inappropriate times or places it can cause serious problems

[moonstar]

Thanks everyone-

I thought I read that some PG'S are good and some
like PG2's are know as bad? doberkim, so what you are saying is that I may never understand them because they are so complicated? I just want to feel comfortable putting her under?? Can PG'S complicate a spay? Can anyone recommend any tests that I should do besides the normal ones for surgury that may help to rule out complications?

Interestingly enough today as I was reading about PG'S, I came across an artical on cramps and the menstral cycle and how PG'S influence them. They went on to say how body builders use them. The interesting part was this one man who said that when he injected PGF2A into his body he not only experienced extream pain but he also said his lips were numb and his breathing was labored as well as having mucus in his throat and diarrhea. Daphney has the labored breathing and the mucus!! In another artical it said PG'S can be resposible for RHINOCONJUNCTIVITES-Daphneys eye and why the Vet said it sounds to be upper respitory. It all seems to fit??

Thank-you all again, anything you can add or share is of great help!

Sincerely, Debbie

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

In all honesty Debbie, if she is having that much difficulty I'd have her spayed before things get out of hand. jmo About the only thing I personally would suggest is before her spay make sure that a clotting test is done so there aren't unforeseen complications due to her blood not clotting.

[doberkim]

Originally Posted by Owned by Lucy

But the PGE in itself is not bad. There are instances when you want the immune system suppressed so it does serves a function. However if it is produced in excess or at inappropriate times or places it can cause serious problems

and i believe that the whole point of the thread is that this is one of those times when it may be causing a serious problem

[Owned by Lucy]

I agree that this is a case when something is obviously going array. However there is a danger when we label something definitively "good" or "bad." Everything in the body (human or dog) serves some function in the proper regulation and homeostasis of said body. PGs play a large roll in protecting our body from outside forces (immune system) and ourselves (pain and inflammation with injury). When something is labled "bad" people make take that to mean always detrimental without really understanding the underlying mechanisms. I beleive I qualified my "not good or bad" statement with the fast that when they are not working as nature intended diseases/pathologies occur. Just because something is causing a problem now does not mean that the item is inheriently bad.

[doberkim]

i never said it was inherently bad - i qualified the statement that you made, where you implied and then indicated that the PG could NOT be responsible for her problem, and that the PG was not possibly suppressing the immune system and the only thing that would be problematic was loss of blood. ANYTHING in the body can be over/underactive, or cause a problem. A natural process can be detrimental - hell, there are certain kinds of cancer that result purely from the body making too many NORMAL cells.


the fact remains that this dogs estrus cycles are wreaking havoc on her, and i would spay her as soon as physically possible

[moonstar]

Thanx again all,

There is one thing here at least for certain and that is that the heat cycles do wreak havoc not only on her but on her mom too!! (me-lol)

Symptoms are diminishing as the days go on and she gets further out of her cycle!! I am hoping that her eye will again start to tear on its own and is not a permanent problem? That will be a very interesting finding! (sorry to say it like that) She is so much happier and that just makes my life so much better. When they hurt-I hurt! I just checked over my paper work and this started around the first of March and looks to possibly be ended in another week or so. Thats a long time for a heat cycle so there is obviously something going on here.

My plan is to wait till she has a good FULL WEEK. Then I will plan in 6 weeks or so to make the appt. for the pre-tests and the spay. I have to do it, I am so scared but I can't not do it for so many reasons, I know this!! She has always been a very healthy dog when she is not in heat so I guess I may be getting myself more worked up than need be.

I will definetly have a clotting test done, do you think she should have a Thyroid test? Would any of you worry about the possible esophagus stricture with the surgery? Is there any test I can have done to make sure her immune system is not compromised and is able to undertake a surgery, especially since we know (I am still confused here as to it being a immune system problem? or a PG's problem?)she has a problem when she goes into heat? Do you think a stress like surgery may trigger another "off balance somewhere and complicate the surgery?

I truely want to Thank-you all again, I am feeling better about the spay-I think??

Sincerely, Debbie