yet ANOTHER neutering question.....(about muscularity)

Big Donnie Brasco · 11-17-2005, 11:15 AM

OK, I know we've beaten the proverbial dead horse WELL into oblivian on the subject of neutering.
I have had many, MANY male bull breed individuals in the past 35 years, but I have never owned a neutered male (unless they were very old). I have owned many spayed females, but my males have all been intact until old age.
I think it is safe to assume that after the personality traits of the breed MOST people are initialy drawn to the bull breeds because of their muscular appearance.
I have paraphrased this question deep in another thread, but do you think that a male Staffordshire Bull Terrier will still reach his full potential muscularity if neutered at 6mos?.....1 year?.....(older?)
I am NOT thinking of leaving him intact, I am just trying to plan for "WHEN".
lastly, do any of you have any photo's of any adult male dogs that were neutered when young?
Thank you all so much for your input!!

KennelMom · 11-17-2005, 03:17 PM

I don't have any direct advice, since I deal with mainly adult greyhounds that have retired from the track (usually at least 2years old)..but I can say that most greyhounds will lose musculature after being fixed at any age. When they come off the track, their back muscles are extremely defined...it kind of 'squares off' their back, and of course their thighs are extremely developed. As the hormones fade after spay/neuter virtually all greyhounds drop their back muscles or 'round out'. Their thighs, while they usually stay fairly developed, will also lose muscle mass.

Even greyhounds that are active in coursing or other activities don't have the physique of an unaltered racing greyhound. (and I know some VERY active retirees)

shandoggy1 · 11-17-2005, 05:21 PM

Hi Brasco,
I have a male Australian Cattle dog who have bull terrier in their lineage and I am waiting till he is about a year old to neuter him to allow him to grow and mature. I may wait until he is 18 months if he is a calm unaltered male and doesn't show any signs of bad habits

. As for the greyhounds alot of those racing dogs are pumped with steroids so I would take that into account and I have seen lots of adopted greys from two or three years ago with alot of muscle tone still its all in the excercise

. I have friends with neutered male bullys and pits and they are very well defined as far as muscle tone goes. Most were done at around 10 months to a year old. There has been alot of talk on neutering or not to neuter but I still feel that it is more of a benefit to the animal especially if he is just a "pet". I know that I could keep an intact male and be responsible. I just don't think it is fair to have him smelling females in heat from miles away and I really don't want to deal with unwanted behaviors that can stem from a male dog.

Crossfire Bulldogs · 11-17-2005, 05:42 PM

I really think it depends on who you ask and what their breed of choice is. While neutering / spaying does bring down the amount of hormones being produced it doesn't stop it totally and in my own opinion I believe muscularity to be more an issue of genetics.

Big Donnie Brasco · 11-17-2005, 06:30 PM

I have a degree in fitness and nutrition (humans)

So I understand how it all works and I have a hard time believing that a male dog will get hard, thick, masculine muscles without the benefit of his "jewels"

I WILL neuter him, I guess I will just watch him and once I feel he's ready I''' snip him

Thanks again!

Crossfire Bulldogs · 11-17-2005, 06:31 PM

I do see where your coming from but the human body works in many different ways than that of the canine. jmo

I'd love to see some research on this issue if anyone has something current they would like to share.

I'm always open to learning new things.

KennelMom · 11-17-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

As for the greyhounds alot of those racing dogs are pumped with steroids so I would take that into account and I have seen lots of adopted greys from two or three years ago with alot of muscle tone still its all in the excercise

Nope, not true. The males are not 'pumped with steroids', in fact, greyhounds are tested after races to ensure this. The females are given hormones to keep them from coming into heat.

And I didn't say retired/altered greyhounds DON'T have muscle tone....I said they do not have the tone and build of an unaltered racer. Some has to do with exercise, some with hormones.

shandoggy1 · 11-17-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennelMom

Nope, not true. The males are not 'pumped with steroids', in fact, greyhounds are tested after races to ensure this. The females are given hormones to keep them from coming into heat.

And I didn't say retired/altered greyhounds DON'T have muscle tone....I said they do not have the tone and build of an unaltered racer. Some has to do with exercise, some with hormones.

Well, my bad I guess! I have been told by greyhound breeders and rescue people that they are given steroids to "bulk-up" Can't believe everything you hear.

KennelMom · 11-17-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shandoggy1

Well, my bad I guess! I have been told by greyhound breeders and rescue people that they are given steroids to "bulk-up" Can't believe everything you hear.

There are a lot of rumors and outright misinformation out there about greyhounds and racing. I know racing kennel owners and (racing) greyhound breeders...I also volunteer in greyhound adoption.

The natural greyhound build combined with their training and racing bulks them up naturally. They have official 'pee catchers' at the end of the races so they can test the dogs for performance altering substances.

Crossfire Bulldogs · 11-18-2005, 06:04 PM

Anyone have any current data on the original topic?

Big Donnie Brasco · 11-18-2005, 06:20 PM

Not me!!

I just talked to Dash's breeder, he's being shipped on Monday morning!!!

shandoggy1 · 11-18-2005, 06:24 PM

Awesome

! I'm happy for you, where is he coming from? Does the breeder have a spay/neuter contract with the pups?

Big Donnie Brasco · 11-18-2005, 07:25 PM

Dash is comming from North Central California, and yes there is a neuter / micro-chip contract.
I have been in the breed for almost 30 years, and have had dealings with most staffy breeders in the US (and some in the UK), so weather or not the contract is actually sent, I am still having him neutered and chipped.
Dash was born with a harelip so he was destined to be neutered anyway.
That being said, if I was a young single guy again, I would NOT have him neutered until he was 6-8 years old. For the simple fact that I am and have always been a resposible owner, and prefer an intact male if he is to be my personal pet. However this little guy is to be my 3 year old daughters dog, so he will be snipped before he is a year old.
Of course it goes without saying that he will really be MY dog, but don't tell my little girl that!

shandoggy1 · 11-18-2005, 07:40 PM

Your funny Brasco!

I got a Cattle dog for my 4 year old daughter to grow up with and they are so funny together every kid should have a dog to grow up with. ACD's are very tough dogs about 50 to 55lbs of muscle. My breeder has a spay/neuter contract as well but I may wait till he is over a year like I said before to snip em'

I hate to do it but I know its the best thing for him. I wanted a pitbull or bull terrier but sharing a two family with my parents up stairs they wouldn't have went for it after all the negative exposure in the media

. So I settled for the ACD who I did alot of research on and have some bull terrier in their background. AWESOME watchdog at even 5 months old. Alot of people think he is a pitbull type dog cuz of his thick muscular build and mask around his face plus he is a red which usually you see the blue. Anyways, I love all the bully type breeds cuz I love there tough look but raise them as sweet as a pussy cat in my house!

Big Donnie Brasco · 11-18-2005, 09:32 PM

I have had dealings with virtualy every breed of dog you can imagine in all my years in my vocation.
ACD's are actually one of my all time favorite breeds! Being "heelers" and having a tendancy toward nippiness when chasing kids at play I opted to not go that route with small kids. I am most certainly NOT saying that your ACD isn't the perfect choice for you, I've just finaly decided that I'll always own a staffy.
I love Staffys for the same reasons you love ACD's. Staffys just aren't NEARLY the watch dog that the ACD is!!
This is not one of my dogs but I love the picture!(it's from Rockstaff in GA, and I hope she doesn't mind me stealing the pict)
I'm sure that any minute now he's gonne "turn" on her and go for her throat!

11-17-2005, 11:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
Big Donnie Brasco Staffy Bull "the Dash" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: KCMO Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	yet ANOTHER neutering question.....(about muscularity) OK, I know we've beaten the proverbial dead horse WELL into oblivian on the subject of neutering. I have had many, MANY male bull breed individuals in the past 35 years, but I have never owned a neutered male (unless they were very old). I have owned many spayed females, but my males have all been intact until old age. I think it is safe to assume that after the personality traits of the breed MOST people are initialy drawn to the bull breeds because of their muscular appearance. I have paraphrased this question deep in another thread, but do you think that a male Staffordshire Bull Terrier will still reach his full potential muscularity if neutered at 6mos?.....1 year?.....(older?) I am NOT thinking of leaving him intact, I am just trying to plan for "WHEN". lastly, do any of you have any photo's of any adult male dogs that were neutered when young? Thank you all so much for your input!!

11-17-2005, 05:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
shandoggy1 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,209 Rep Power: 97	Hi Brasco, I have a male Australian Cattle dog who have bull terrier in their lineage and I am waiting till he is about a year old to neuter him to allow him to grow and mature. I may wait until he is 18 months if he is a calm unaltered male and doesn't show any signs of bad habits . As for the greyhounds alot of those racing dogs are pumped with steroids so I would take that into account and I have seen lots of adopted greys from two or three years ago with alot of muscle tone still its all in the excercise . I have friends with neutered male bullys and pits and they are very well defined as far as muscle tone goes. Most were done at around 10 months to a year old. There has been alot of talk on neutering or not to neuter but I still feel that it is more of a benefit to the animal especially if he is just a "pet". I know that I could keep an intact male and be responsible. I just don't think it is fair to have him smelling females in heat from miles away and I really don't want to deal with unwanted behaviors that can stem from a male dog.
	Last edited by shandoggy1 : 11-17-2005 at 05:25 PM.

11-17-2005, 05:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 285	I really think it depends on who you ask and what their breed of choice is. While neutering / spaying does bring down the amount of hormones being produced it doesn't stop it totally and in my own opinion I believe muscularity to be more an issue of genetics.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~ Gerry Spence As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

11-17-2005, 06:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Big Donnie Brasco Staffy Bull "the Dash" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: KCMO Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	Thanks a lot I have a degree in fitness and nutrition (humans) So I understand how it all works and I have a hard time believing that a male dog will get hard, thick, masculine muscles without the benefit of his "jewels" I WILL neuter him, I guess I will just watch him and once I feel he's ready I''' snip him Thanks again!

11-17-2005, 06:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 285	I do see where your coming from but the human body works in many different ways than that of the canine. jmo I'd love to see some research on this issue if anyone has something current they would like to share. I'm always open to learning new things.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~ Gerry Spence As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

11-17-2005, 03:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
KennelMom Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piedmont, SC Posts: 658 Rep Power: 88	I don't have any direct advice, since I deal with mainly adult greyhounds that have retired from the track (usually at least 2years old)..but I can say that most greyhounds will lose musculature after being fixed at any age. When they come off the track, their back muscles are extremely defined...it kind of 'squares off' their back, and of course their thighs are extremely developed. As the hormones fade after spay/neuter virtually all greyhounds drop their back muscles or 'round out'. Their thighs, while they usually stay fairly developed, will also lose muscle mass. Even greyhounds that are active in coursing or other activities don't have the physique of an unaltered racing greyhound. (and I know some VERY active retirees)

11-18-2005, 06:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 285	Anyone have any current data on the original topic?
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~ Gerry Spence As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

11-18-2005, 06:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
Big Donnie Brasco Staffy Bull "the Dash" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: KCMO Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	Hmmmmmm Not me!! I just talked to Dash's breeder, he's being shipped on Monday morning!!!

11-18-2005, 06:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
shandoggy1 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,209 Rep Power: 97	Awesome ! I'm happy for you, where is he coming from? Does the breeder have a spay/neuter contract with the pups?

11-18-2005, 07:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
Big Donnie Brasco Staffy Bull "the Dash" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: KCMO Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	contracts Dash is comming from North Central California, and yes there is a neuter / micro-chip contract. I have been in the breed for almost 30 years, and have had dealings with most staffy breeders in the US (and some in the UK), so weather or not the contract is actually sent, I am still having him neutered and chipped. Dash was born with a harelip so he was destined to be neutered anyway. That being said, if I was a young single guy again, I would NOT have him neutered until he was 6-8 years old. For the simple fact that I am and have always been a resposible owner, and prefer an intact male if he is to be my personal pet. However this little guy is to be my 3 year old daughters dog, so he will be snipped before he is a year old. Of course it goes without saying that he will really be MY dog, but don't tell my little girl that!

11-18-2005, 07:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
shandoggy1 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,209 Rep Power: 97	Your funny Brasco! I got a Cattle dog for my 4 year old daughter to grow up with and they are so funny together every kid should have a dog to grow up with. ACD's are very tough dogs about 50 to 55lbs of muscle. My breeder has a spay/neuter contract as well but I may wait till he is over a year like I said before to snip em' I hate to do it but I know its the best thing for him. I wanted a pitbull or bull terrier but sharing a two family with my parents up stairs they wouldn't have went for it after all the negative exposure in the media . So I settled for the ACD who I did alot of research on and have some bull terrier in their background. AWESOME watchdog at even 5 months old. Alot of people think he is a pitbull type dog cuz of his thick muscular build and mask around his face plus he is a red which usually you see the blue. Anyways, I love all the bully type breeds cuz I love there tough look but raise them as sweet as a pussy cat in my house!

11-18-2005, 09:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
Big Donnie Brasco Staffy Bull "the Dash" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: KCMO Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	Nice! I have had dealings with virtualy every breed of dog you can imagine in all my years in my vocation. ACD's are actually one of my all time favorite breeds! Being "heelers" and having a tendancy toward nippiness when chasing kids at play I opted to not go that route with small kids. I am most certainly NOT saying that your ACD isn't the perfect choice for you, I've just finaly decided that I'll always own a staffy. I love Staffys for the same reasons you love ACD's. Staffys just aren't NEARLY the watch dog that the ACD is!! This is not one of my dogs but I love the picture!(it's from Rockstaff in GA, and I hope she doesn't mind me stealing the pict) I'm sure that any minute now he's gonne "turn" on her and go for her throat!

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