Under Weight

[Irish Mom]

I just adopted an Irish Setter. He is your typical Setter, full of energy and always so afectionate. Great with the kids.

Shane (that's his name) is 11 months old, AKC registered and a magnificent sample of the breed. I got him from the breeder, after his previous owners could not take care of him anymore.

My only concern with Shane, is that he is extremenly skinny. I can see each of his ribs, his hip bones and he does not have alot of muscle on his back (maybe not enough food and exercise?).

I have a couple of questions:
1- His been fed Eukanuba/Iams mix by his breeder, so that is what I bought (until I found this forum) I know I need to change that, but what else can I give him to help him put some weight?

2- He has a lot of dandruff. Is this something that regular bathing will take care of?

3- I've heard so many bad things about dog toys lately, what would be the best thing to give him, he needs something to clean his teeth.

4- What exercises if any can I use to help him develop his muscles?

I would like to make up for the rought times his had in such a short amount of time. Any and all advise is welcome.

Thanks.

[Cassiepeia]

I can't help you with most of your questions, but I know that Setters LOVE swimming and it's fantastic exercise for them. So if you can, give him some regular swimming time..beach, river, lake etc...where ever you can.

Cass.

[calgal]

Give him real food. Mix up some cooked ground meat with brown rice for one meal, and meat, boiled egg & yogurt for another. There are many, many types of real foods that are wonderful for dogs, and real food is excellent for skin & coat. You could buy the salmon oil soft gels to add to the food too. Maybe a PetTab each day too. As for chewing, you could get a nice big knuckle bone and a large nylabone. It doesn't have to be difficult to have a healthy dog. Just feed them the "real" stuff.

[shandoggy1]

Try some Biljac dog food. It is very high in protein and is a good food to help a dog who is under weight put weight on. It might not be the best premium food on the market that you can get but it will help alot. Google the words "biljac dog food" so you can read about it. Then eventually you can put him on something even better. Good luck!

[Jamila]

When I got Lucky he was exrtemely skinny. I feed him Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul Adult Dogfood. I feed him for his suggested weight as if he was at it. Although now he is close to ideal weight for his size and breed. I add in yogurt or beef broth. I make him homemade pumpkin cake or peanut butter dog cookies for treats.

As far as putting muscle on him, we walk. I wouldn't want to fatten or over work the dog so fast. A gradual weight gain and muscle gain is healthy and I think safer.

In the past I had a Sheltie that has bad dandruff when I got her and I used an oatmeal dog shampoo to help it.

Well that's all I got

This is just my experience/opinion!

[Irish Mom]

calgal-
Thanks for all he great ideas, that seems like a good way to start. I know I have to change his food, I wanted to get people's opinion on what has worked better for them, in cases like mine, where weight (the lack of) is a concern.

shandoggy1-
I'll be googling away tonight- thanks

Jamila-

As far as putting muscle on him, we walk. I wouldn't want to fatten or over work the dog so fast. A gradual weight gain and muscle gain is healthy and I think safer.

That's what I tought too, even though with Shane is more like a run rather than a walk.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

A food switch is a great start. If you've already made sure that his lack of weight isn't due to a health related issue something else you can try to fatten him up are satin balls. It will put weight on a dog quickly but isn't something I would recommend doing without running bloodwork on the dog first to make sure diabetes is not an issue of concern as this is high in sugar. The recipe is listed below.

Satin balls

10# hamburger meat
1 jar wheat germ
1 lg box of oatmeal (uncooked)
1 1/4 Cup vegetable oil
10 eggs
10 sm pkgs unflavored gelatin
1 1/4 Cup unflavored molasses
A pinch of salt
1 lg box Total cereal (2lb's)
(You may also add a pinch of garlic powder to add flavor)

Mix all ingredients together well, much like a meatloaf....put into separate freezer bags and freeze, thawing out as needed. It puts weight on in a very short time, not to mention the gloss in their coat. You can use it every day and it can be fed alone or with kibble.

[Novel]

I have a couple of questions:
1- His been fed Eukanuba/Iams mix by his breeder, so that is what I bought (until I found this forum) I know I need to change that, but what else can I give him to help him put some weight?

If you prefer to stay on kibble, feed a good premium kibble and add either a pasta or rice to it. The carbs are not good for him in the long run, but they will put a quick weight on him. By quick I mean that you will notice a difference within a week. Many show people will feed a few meals of mac & cheese to their dogs before a show to add just a little bit of trim.

Also, with that breed, I would caution you to be not overly concerned about his weight, especially if he is a picky eater. They seem to go through adolescence and forget all about eating. I struggled for months to get my oldest boy to eat, knocking myself out, and then when he got through his stage, he just started eating all on his own. My advice is to keep him healthy, but don't feel he has to be at the perfect weight until he matures a little more.

I, as you will find, feel that a raw diet is the best diet for dogs. In my opinion it not only improves their immune system but also stabilizes them mentally. I won't go into that here, but would explain if you're interested.

2- He has a lot of dandruff. Is this something that regular bathing will take care of?

Fish oils, vegetable oils, raw eggs, and yogurt will all help improve his skin and replenish the natural oils. Try and avoid bathing him if you can as this will strip more oils from the coat and could make his skin even drier.

3- I've heard so many bad things about dog toys lately, what would be the best thing to give him, he needs something to clean his teeth.

Natural, raw bones are the best toys and tooth cleaners that I've ever come across. Here is a thread that goes into that: http://www.globalpaw.com/showthread....4&page=1&pp=15 (How often to feed raw bones...)

4- What exercises if any can I use to help him develop his muscles?

Running through the snow is a very good stregth and muscle building activity. Not sure if you have snow in your area. I also take my dogs bike riding. They run between me and the ditch line alongside the bike. This works most of the body, but can be difficult on their joints if predisposed to any joint problems. Any activity is good for him, but if he is underweight and out of shape, let him tell you when he is tired. Only play or exercise as long as he wants to. Treat him like a puppy, because, really he is, he's just entering his teen years, and he has lots of growing yet to do. Enjoy your new pup and welcome to the board!


P.S. I second Crossfire's recipe for satin balls. When my boy would eat nothing else, I could at least get him to eat those!

[windski]

Would have a basic wellness check - underweight could be indicative of worms, either round and hook or tapeworms. He may also just have not filled out yet. My poor rottweiler look emaciated at 1 year old and she was on free feed of a good quality food with no health problems. Just too active even for the huge caloric intake she managed to consume. Now, eight years later we have her on weight management food - no justice! Just like humans.

[Irish Mom]

Novel-

If you prefer to stay on kibble, feed a good premium kibble and add either a pasta or rice to it.

I honestly do not know what to do with regards to the food- I know I need to change the Iams (probably to Nutro), and also the idea of giving im some RAW food is also appealing to me. I already started mixing rice, some olive oil and cheese (not at the same time) to his dry food.

I, as you will find, feel that a raw diet is the best diet for dogs. In my opinion it not only improves their immune system but also stabilizes them mentally. I won't go into that here, but would explain if you're interested.

I am very much interested in learning anything that will help me give him a better quality of life.

Crossfire-
Thank you for the Satin Balls Recipe- will do

Windski-
He is getting dewormed now.

Thank goodness I found this forum. I've only had Shane for a week and already my life is so much richer because of him. In anticipation of all the questions I'll have, and the amazing response you guys give in tis forum, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Novel]

I honestly do not know what to do with regards to the food- I know I need to change the Iams (probably to Nutro), and also the idea of giving im some RAW food is also appealing to me. I already started mixing rice, some olive oil and cheese (not at the same time) to his dry food.

I've found that the Whole Dog Journal does a very comprehensive review of dry and wet manufactured dog foods. I will quote a little bit of what they say here.

"Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula - Like Eukanuba (Which is also made by the Iams Company), Iams' products are not horrible, they are just not that great. Lamb meal is first on list, which is super. This is followed, however, by four grains. Also contains chicken by-product meal."

"Natural Choice Adult Lamb & Rice (made by Nutro) - Another good example of how fragments can be used to keep the protein source first on the list of the ingredients. The ingredients list starts: 'Lamb meal, ground rice, rice flour, rice bran...' Add up all those rice fragments , and lamb would appear much lower."

To summarize, Whole Dog Journal have both foods on the "Not Recommended" List, along with Beneful, anything Alpo, Pedigree, Science Diet, Purina One, Nutra, Gravy Train, Kibbles n Bits, Diamond, Bil Jac and Nature's Recipe.

Some of the foods that they have approved: Azmira, Blue Buffalo, Canidae, California Natural, Eagle Holistic, Solid Gold, Innova, Merrick, Natural Balance, Royal Canin, Wellness, and Wysong

What you want: Superior sources of protein, whole meat as one of the first two ingredients and whole unprocessed grains or vegetables.

What you want a minimum of: Food fragments, meat by-products

What you don't want: Generic fats or proteins, i.e. Animal fat, artificial preservatives, artificial colors, propylene glycol, sweeteners.

As far as mixing the raw foods in with his meals, you can pretty mix any of it in with any meal, all together, but try and avoid giving raw meats or eggs along with kibbles, as there is a small potential of those foods causing bacteria growth before they are processed. It is completely safe to give them alone, as they travel through the dogs digestive system at the normal rate. Kibble takes about twice the time to digest that raw foods do. So a raw egg as a snack in the afternoon, about 4 hours before dinner, is just fine! I freeze the eggs, so that they are a bit more of a toy, and let them eat them whole, shell and all.

There have been conflicting reports about the olive oil. Some say that it is damaging to the kidneys, others say not to worry. To appease my nerves, I skip the olive oil and feed a high grade canola oil. It contains many things great for dogs!

I am very much interested in learning anything that will help me give him a better quality of life.

In my opinion, through experience with my personal crew, I've found that a raw diet has calmed them all down considerably. They find a great deal of pleasure in eating their meals in a more natural way. Chewing, pulling, tearing, etc all seem to soothe them and it causes them to eat their meals at a more "normal" pace. My local chow hound, Laney, eats as fast as she possibly can, but when feeding raw, she is forced to slow down and chew. Just as gobbling our food upsets our stomachs, I imagine the same goes for dogs. Especially when gobbling dry kibble which sits a long time in their stomachs as a majority of it is filler. Also dry kibble vastly increases your dog's need for additional water. I am not joking when I say that my three dogs may drink a quart of water between the three of them every few days. Most days I just have to change the water, because its always full. Kibble contains a very low moisture content, where raw food contains a more natural moisture content. I worry about the strain on the kidneys and liver if dogs are constantly having to balance the water in their bodies through other sources besides their food. Also, the amount of feces is greatly reduced when feeding raw, as the body processes most of the food, and there is very little filler. Again, my crew goes a small amount in the morning and a small amount in the evening. Our foster produced more feces by herself, she was on kibble, than all three of the others, on a daily basis. I don't feel that can be good for them either.

But back to the mental health. Meals become a more relaxing and challenging time. Some foods crunch, like carrots and bones, some require tearing and chewing, like meat and bones, some need to be sucked on, licked, etc. I feel this all adds something to their lives. Also, with the addition of bones as toys/snacks, they satisfy themselves for hours each day chewing on bones from their earlier meals, just like they would in their ancestors natural environment.

I feed a whole prey raw diet, and by that I mean I raise chickens, ducks and rabbits. When meal time comes along, I humanely kill a chicken or duck, and hand it over to the dog it is intended for. I do skin the rabbits, and they eat those in their crates, but I tend to feed the chickens and ducks outside, because they pluck them for themselves. (I do sneak some of the feathers I want for crafts off first, especially the roosters and ducks.)

Feel free to ask any questions and so glad that you're here! Everyone here is super helpful and you will get many opinions and lots of great information for just about anything you care to ask about!

[calgal]

Why would you use a dry kibble in the first place if you need to add "real" food to it to make it better? I think the real food alone is the best way to go.