Early Spay/Nueter????

[shay05]

I'm getting ready for a rescue litter and was wondering what you guys thought about early alteration? I'm also a member of another forum and most of the responses were that there wasn't really a choice since I don't want the pups to end up the way mom did (which is right). However, some did say that it is NOT a good idea to do it that early because a pup may not be able to handle a certain amt of anesthesia, etc. What should I do? I could make up a contract, but still, thats no guarantee!

[Mysticwind]

I had a rescue litter back in April. 2 boys and 2 girls. All were spayed/neutered at 8-11 weeks of age (had 1 done per week) and they all did just fine with it and recovered very quickly. You cannot rely on contracts - not everyone will comply so best thing to do is have them fixed yourself before adoption.

[shay05]

I thought so! Thanx!!!

[linnie]

wow I so totally dont agree with neutering that early.
If they are male then their testes wouldnt have dropped.
We have always waited till dogs are at least 5 months old.

I hope some knowlegable people read your post so that you can get good information

[doberkim]

i vote spay and neuter them. you CANNOT PLACE these animals with them being intact.

most male dogs have their testes dropped at birth. in dogs with undescended testicles, they may drop later, but traditionally most dogs should be dropped at or very soon after birth.


if you rescue puppies, they should be spayed and neutered before they leave your house. the ONLY way to prevent further puppy production is to speuter them. when you have puppies, you have no other option. you cannot rely on contracts.

[mrsgrubby]

I have rescued two sets of puppies and had them all spayed/neutered at 10-12 weeks old. The oldest set is 1 year now and still doing great!

They recovered really quickly and did great. The vet who did the surgery only made a tiny cut to get their "parts out" and they had no external stitches.

With rescues I think the only responsible choice is to alter them before adoption.

As far as their ability to go through surgery, some cats never get larger than 10 lbs. and get altered, as well as adult Chi's. All my puppies were at least 15lbs.

[Shalva]

while I would NEVER spay or neuter my own dogs or any of the puppies that I breed and place at that age.... I have mixed emotions about spaying and neutering a rescue litter before they leave.

The fact is that spaying and neutering that early IS NOT good for the puppy.... and there are a multitude of health problems that arise.... endocrine disorders, increased cancer rates, kidney stones cna be a problem..... a higher risk of orthopedic injuries.... I can go on and on.... and testes do not drop at birth counter to what another individual stated.... but that is not the issue.....

I do not think that spaying and neutering early is a good thing at all..... at the same time I understand the concern so would I do it.... I dont know.... I think what I would do instead is have the folks who get a puppy give a deposit in the amount of the spay and neuter that is refundable when they show proof that the puppy has been altered. Money talks and while a contract in and of itself may not motivate them to alter their pet... a refundable deposit (with interest) probably would.

just my thoughts for the morning....
S

[mrsgrubby]

When the rescue group I deal with alters a puppy they pay almost $200 for the surgery, plus all the shots.

When the pup is adopted out, only $100 is charged to the new owner.

It would be hard to keep track of all the money in flux with contracts and spay/neuter deposits.

At this time the vet who does the early surgery is very confident that there is no adverse affects to the puppies to do the surgery early.

[shandoggy1]

If they are rescue or shelter animals then I vote to spay/neuter early because you can not TRUST people to do so once the dogs settle into there new homes. Most shelters here around Boston do spay/neuter at 8 weeks because again trust issue's. I have seen in the animal field to many unfixed mutts that were rescued and never brought back at 6 months to have there spay/neuter surgeries. It makes more sense to fix them as early as you can.

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by mrsgrubby

At this time the vet who does the early surgery is very confident that there is no adverse affects to the puppies to do the surgery early.

that vet is incorrect and I would be happy to share the citations with you... there are numerous adverse affects of spaying and neutering early......
increased risk of hemangiosarcomas and cardiac hemangiosarcomas
increased risk of endocrine disorders in bitches as well as incontinence
inability to pass kidney stones and bladder stones due to infantile genitalia
an extension of the growth of the long bones in the legs that changes the center of gravity in the dog and increases the risk of orthopaedic injuries
a more aggressive form of prostate cancer in dogs
an increase in osteosarcoma
I can go on and on
like I said I can certainly see why one would want to neuter and spay rescue puppies early ....

however a vet who states that there are no adverse effects has clearly not done his homework.....
S

[doberkim]

can you state your sources and your citations then ?

[shay05]

Shalva, the deposit for altering is a good idea!! I just don't want to make any bad decisions for them AT ALL. I don't think I could live with myself if something happened to one of them because I altered too early...I just hope people would come back for their deposits after surgery is done..

[Shalva]

Shay,
Like I said I have very mixed emotions about this..... I would be totally torn about what to do and I can add that when my puppies were getting to be "of age" I didn't sleep at night worrying..... I was a stressball..... but it all worked out .... everyone was spayed as they were supposed to be ..... I just preferred to wait until they were a bit older to do so.... in my puppy contract it says that they must wait until after the first heat cycle in bitches or 18 mos. of age for males.

It was hard but ultimately I feel like what I did was right for my puppies.... however these were well screened homes and I had met the folks numerous times.... well ya know...

I think that whatever you decide to do will be a good decision... I think its wonderful that you are fostering and caring for the little guys.... you may never know that you made the right decision or not... you can just do your best and hope.

My concern is whenever I see someone say that these surgeries are without risk..... and there are NO adverse reactions.... that is actually what I was responding to.... there is always a risk in surgery and imagine castrating or doing a hysterectomy on a 12 year old girl or boy and then would you really expect them to develop normally?? of course not.... those hormones are important.

Make a decision about what is right for yourself and those babies..... and don't look back.... its a tough call I am glad that I am not the one making the decision.

S (who has the citations at home and will happilly send them along to anyone that wants them.....)

[shay05]

Yes, it is hard. But what I've began to do is email everyone who is acquiring about a puppy, and telling them about the spay/neuter contract and deposit and the importance of it.
Dottie, wasn't in a nice rescue at a home setting, she was not given to me by owners, she was almost sentenced to death at our local animal control aka POUND. All the dogs in the kennel were barking, and she was the only one sitting back in her corner, slumped over as if she knew there was no chance for her. I had to take her. When we went up to the front desk to inquire about her, the guy said "OHH! Well..you should name her Lucky. She was about to go today." Then, I KNEW we had to take her. For me, there was no changing my mind turning back or saying "Well, we'll be back tomorrow". She had stolen my heart. I forgot to mention,When we got her there were 3 (yes THREE) newborn litters in there. Such a sad place to have to raise your pups. In a cold drafty kennel in a cardboard box. I'm glad we got her out. Don't get me wrong...I was once hard headed, too! I remember wanting to be a "breeder" without really wanting to do the showing, or joining breed clubs...then I started volunteering at a shelter here and I changed my mind! Too many homeless dogs (and cats) and I'll leave breeding to the experts! Anyway, I want every one who wants a puppy to understand that I don't want Dottie's pups to end up like she did. I read on another forum that one dog was in heat at 4 months!!!! Isn't that ridiculous. A little hard to beleive but i guess it can happen. I don't want us (Dottie and me) to be the reason the shelters are full.
So...we'll see how many people will back out because of the alter deposit and contract agreement. If so, I guess it was meant for a puppy not being placed there.

[doberkim]

well, since you arent posting some citations, i will post some. i assume this is in response to the zinks review just posted about everywhere


zink's review is a TAD misleading, especially in respect to the osteo study. and the results of the HD study specifically talk about the other differences they DIDNT find.



Long-term risks and benefits of early-age gonadectomy in dogs(Spain et al. JAVMA
2004;224:380-387)

Among 1,842 dogs adopted from a large humane shelter, associations between age at gonadectomy and occurrence of 56 medical and behavioral conditions were evaluated. Among female dogs, early-age gonadectomy was associated with increased rate of cystitis and decreasing age at gonadectomy was associated with increased rate of urinary incontinence. Among male and female dogs with early-age gonadectomy, hip dysplasia, noise phobias, and sexual behaviors were increased, whereas obesity, separation anxiety, escaping behaviors, inappropriate elimination when frightened, and relinquishment for any reason were decreased. Early-age gonadectomy appears to have more benefits than risks for dogs, especially males. Veterinarians should consider recommending gonadectomy for client-owned male dogs before the traditional age of 6 to 8 months. For female dogs, however, increased urinary incontinence suggests that delaying gonadectomy until at least 3 months of age may be beneficial.¡ªC. V. Spain et al


here is some of the discussion from this paper: please dont tell anyone i copied it

No association was found between frequency of the outcome and age at gonadectomy for most of the medical and behavioral conditions evaluated in this study. This was true even for many conditions speculated to be increased with early-age gonadectomy, such as diabetes mellitus and immune deficiency. Diabetes mellitus appears to be rare among gonadectomized dogs, at least during the first 11 years of life. In our study, dogs gonadectomized before 5.5 months of age were not significantly more likely than dogs gonadectomized at ¡Ý 5.5 months of age to have any conditions that might be associated with long-term immune suppression, including parvoviral enteritis with onset after 1 year of age, demodicosis, infectious tracheobronchitis, or repeated infections of the same body system. One other study13 that followed 269 dogs adopted from shelters for a median of 48 months found that gonadectomy before 5.5 months of age was associated with increased incidence of parvoviral enteritis. In that study, as with ours, however, the increased rate of parvovirus infection probably represented increased susceptibility of dogs < 6 months of age during the periadoption period and not long-term immune suppression or long-term susceptibility as a result of early-age gonadectomy.

In our study, age at gonadectomy was not associated with frequency of long-bone fractures or arthritis. The incidence of hip dysplasia, however, was increased among the early-age gonadectomized dogs, although the diagnosis of hip dysplasia was reported with signs such as arthritis in only a portion of those dogs. It is possible that the increase in bone length that results from early-age gonadectomy12 results in changes in joint conformation, which could lead to a diagnosis of hip dysplasia. The early-age gonadectomized dogs in our study received a diagnosis of hip dysplasia at an earlier age than dogs gonadectomized from 5.5 to 12 months of age. Initially, we suspected that the earlier age at diagnosis might invalidate some of the hip dysplasia cases in the early-age gonadectomized dogs because results of other studies19,20 suggest that diagnosis at a young age can be unreliable. The difference in median age of diagnosis between groups (33 vs 44 months), however, was small, and most diagnoses in both age groups were made after the dogs were at least 12 months old. Therefore, the increased rate of hip dysplasia among the early-age gonadectomized dogs in our study cannot be fully attributed to a false-positive diagnosis because of the age at which they were evaluated. The lower rate of euthanasia among early-age gonadectomized dogs with hip dysplasia suggests that early-age gonadectomy may be associated with a less severe form of hip dysplasia. Whether this association is real or represents a type-I error is unclear. Also, a rigorous set of diagnostic criteria for hip dysplasia was not used, which probably resulted in misclassification of some dogs. In contrast to our results, Howe et al13 found no association between age at gonadectomy and the frequency of musculoskeletal problems.


***incidentally, i didnt realize that this next study was JUST rotties - a breed that is at MUCH higher risk than the average dog, and since i just spent 2 weeks in oncology, i can tell you i saw three tripod rotties with osteo, and only one other breed that entire week, so im inclined to not really think this is as applicable to every breed as we think, the bigger question is why are rotties so prone to osteo?? notice the breed predilection wasnt really mentioned by anyone else, that i noticed?***

Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk1
Dawn M. Cooley, Benjamin C. Beranek, Deborah L. Schlittler, Nita W. Glickman, Lawrence T. Glickman and David J. Waters2
Departments of Veterinary Clinical Sciences [D. M. C., B. C. B., D. L. S., D. J. W.] and Veterinary Pathobiology [N. W. G., L. T. G.], Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana 47907, and the Gerald P. Murphy Cancer Foundation, Seattle, Washington 98125 [D. M. C., D. J. W.]

Although experimental and clinical evidence suggest that endogenous sex hormones influence bone sarcoma genesis, the hypothesis has not been adequately tested in an appropriate animal model. We conducted a historical cohort study of Rottweiler dogs because they frequently undergo elective gonadectomy and spontaneously develop appendicular bone sarcomas, which mimic the biological behavior of the osteosarcomas that affect children and adolescents. Data were collected by questionnaire from owners of 683 Rottweiler dogs living in North America. To determine whether there was an association between endogenous sex hormones and risk of bone sarcoma, relative risk (RR) of incidence rates and hazard ratios for bone sarcoma were calculated for dogs subdivided on the basis of lifetime gonadal hormone exposure. Bone sarcoma was diagnosed in 12.6% of dogs in this cohort during 71,004 dog-months follow-up. Risk for bone sarcoma was significantly influenced by age at gonadectomy. Male and female dogs that underwent gonadectomy before 1 year of age had an approximate one in four lifetime risk for bone sarcoma and were significantly more likely to develop bone sarcoma than dogs that were sexually intact [RR ¡À95% CI = 3.8 (1.5¨C9.2) for males; RR ¡À95% CI = 3.1 (1.1¨C8.3) for females]. 2 test for trend showed a highly significant inverse dose-response relationship between duration of lifetime gonadal exposure and incidence rate of bone sarcoma (P = 0.008 for males, P = 0.006 for females). This association was independent of adult height or body weight. We conclude that the subset of Rottweiler dogs that undergo early gonadectomy represent a unique, highly accessible target population to further study the gene:environment interactions that determine bone sarcoma risk and to test whether interventions can inhibit the spontaneous development of bone sarcoma.




Effect of gonadectomy on subsequent development of age-related cognitive impairment in dogs
Benjamin L. Hart, DVM, PhD, DACVB *

Abstract
Objective¡ªTo determine whether gonadectomy predisposes dogs to development of age-related behavioral changes linked to cognitive impairment.

Design¡ªCohort study.

Animals¡ª29 sexually intact male dogs, 63 spayed female dogs, and 47 castrated male dogs 11 to 14 years old.

Procedure¡ªInformation on possible impairments in 4 behavioral categories linked to cognitive impairment (orientation in the home and yard, social interactions, house training, and sleep-wake cycle) was obtained from owners of the dogs by use of a structured telephone interview format. A second interview was performed 12 to 18 months after the initial interview, and differences in responses were evaluated.

Results¡ªSexually intact male dogs were significantly less likely than neutered dogs to progress from mild impairment (ie, impairment in 1 category) to severe impairment (ie, impairment in ¡Ý 2 categories) during the time between the first and second interviews. This difference was not attributable to differences in ages of the dogs, duration of follow-up, or the owners' perceptions of the dogs' overall health.

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance¡ªResults suggest that the presence of circulating testosterone in aging sexually intact male dogs may slow the progression of cognitive impairment, at least among dogs that already have signs of mild impairment. Estrogens would be expected to have a similar protective role in sexually intact female dogs; unfortunately, too few sexually intact female dogs were available for inclusion in the study to test this hypothesis. There may be a need to evaluate possible methods for counteracting the effects of loss of sex hormones in gonadectomized dogs. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2001;219:51¨C56)