British Police Dogs

[mulroony]

Recently I have found myself watching "The Situation w/ Tucker Carlson" (not because I agree with him, but because he upsets me so much it wakes me up more then caffeine ) One thing I did agree with him though is about a new method in which the British are using police dogs.

They are attaching cameras onto their heads and sending them into harms way, like during a standoff, for information gathering. Ok now maybe I can understand using dogs in situations where humans already have to risk their lives, but to just put their lives in danger because it is convient is horrible. Do you think a criminal would give a second thought to shooting a dog that they see has a camera on their head?

If you really want to do this there are robots that can do just as well if not better, and do it at a much lower price.

Here is what Tucker and guest said during his show

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10364775/

"Police in Great Britain putting man‘s best friend in the line of fire to fight crime. Dogs outfitted with miniature television cameras on their heads being used during armed standoffs to search for suspects. Some of them are even trained to leave a mobile phone at the front door of under siege premises, so that officers can negotiate with suspects.

I am proud to say, Max, this is taking place in the United Kingdom, not so far as I know here in the United States. This is pure cowardice. Here you have police officers, trained to do a job, to defuse hostile situations, to fight terror, to lead armed standoffs against bad guys, and they are shirking their responsibility and turning it over to a German shepherd, because they are fraidy cats. They are cowards, so they would rather put the dog in jeopardy than do their manly duty and face danger head on. It‘s despicable.

CARLSON: You know what? OK, fine, look, I will be a cop in England defending myself. OK, fine, I‘m scared. You can call me names. That‘s right, I don‘t want to die. I don‘t want to get shot. And I would rather have a dog do it. Yes. And you know what, Tucker? I think that‘s a perfectly legitimate argument. Dogs, you know, they are intelligent beings; they are not human beings. The life of a dog—there‘s no equivalency with the life of a person, and if you are putting a dog in the line of danger to save human life, and they can do the job reasonably well, I mean...

CARLSON: Have you no—I mean, seriously, what about dignity and self-respect? I feel like going out to dinner, I think I will have my cocker spaniel host the show tonight. No. It‘s my job. It‘s my show. It‘s my duty to do it. Right? Because that‘s what I do for a living.

KELLERMAN: I will say, Tucker...

CARLSON: These are cops. And they somehow just don‘t feel like dealing with the bad parts of the job, so they get the dog to do it. I think it‘s reprehensible.

KELLERMAN: Tucker, it‘s funny you bring that up, because you weren‘t on the show one day, and you had me host it. So you know, it flies in the face of your argument.

CARLSON: You can‘t roll over a hill, though, Max.

KELLERMAN: No. And I won‘t."

[flyndog]

They've updated the site and it's a different transcript now.

[Cassiepeia]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but british police don't actually carry guns. Although they have a special unit (?) that is specifically for that...or maybe I'm wrong and have been watching too many british cop shows. ROFL

Anyhoo..my point is, if they don't carry a gun...it probably is safer to let a dog go in there to see what's going on. If a criminal is going to shoot...they're going to shoot. Someone's going to get hurt or killed, so I guess if the dog going in there with the camera actually helps and does some good to aid the cops in resolving the situation, then it's a good thing and better than sending someone unarmed and unaware of what's really going on.

Although the obsessed dog person in me is screaming that these dogs lives are worth just as much as the humans and the dogs don't get a choice to do the job, aren't aware of the risks...etc. *sigh*

LOL I don't know. It does make sense to me and I'm not against it but there is a part of me that feels bad for the dogs.

Cass.

[mulroony]

I understand using dogs in police work, and I have no problem with it, but I do not understand using dogs in this kind of police work.

The other issue I see is that a criminal would be much more willing to shoot a dog then a cop. Most criminals arte at least smart enough to realize shooting a cop is one of he dumbest things they can do, but shooting a dog might not come have the same flash.

[Andrew556]

Hi, im from England.

Our police do not carry guns apart from from a special arms unit, we are trying very hard to not go down the same way the USA has. We feel that if the Police carry guns then every criminal will feel they have to, and then normal people will arm themselves. And then we have a gun culture that you have struggled with for years and years to contain and perhaps never will.

If a dog can help keep our police safe, then im well up for it! And no, a dogs life is not worth the same as a persons. Try telling that to the 3 children of a police lady that has just been shot and killed over here.

We dont have american style 'shoot outs', well we do, but very few. The chances of a dog been shot is very very slim indeed. Infact, id suggest that perhaps none have been shot this year.

If dogs going in first stops our police carrying guns and saves a few lives, then i completely agree with it. A couple of dead dogs IMO is a minor price to pay for keeping American gun culture off our streets.

Sorry if that sounds a bit anti-american, but there are alot of things wrong with your culture, as there is in ours, and there are certain things I do not want my kids to experience. MacDonalds, yes. Been shot by a ten year old over a mobile phone, NO!

[GSD]

Originally Posted by Andrew556

MacDonalds, yes. Been shot by a ten year old over a mobile phone, NO!

SOmetimes eating McDonald's feels like getting shot, but it kills you over a longer period of time than being shot.

[mulroony]

Andrew556 - I think you have the wrong image of America. I live just outside Chicago and I have never seen a shooting. Yes our cops carry guns but they are used as last resort.

That said why can't they use the dogs as an extension of the officer like in the US? (a GSD is much better at chasing down a person on foot than an officer is) I have to question your logic about the value of a dogs life vs a humans. How many dogs would you sacrafice to save one persons life? Personally I wouldn't want any living creatures life sacrificed to save my life.

The issue I have with this is that this is a pointless risk of a dogs life.

[Tiffany0204]

I don't think I can remember the last time that I've seen/heard of a "shoot-off" in the States. Not all Americans are gun-toting thugs, that's a huge mis-conception that's only been made to seem more likely with movies like Farenheight 9/11 and Bowling for Columbine. While I think that there's alot of problems with guns in the first place, America isn't the only country that's got a very negative "gun culture".

As for using the dogs instead of themselves, I'm of the opinion that you understand the risks involved when you sign up to be a police officer. I mean, if you're not wanting to risk your life, there's plenty of other job fields that you can get into. I feel awful for those families that lose their Dads, Moms, Sons, Daughters, etc but they knew what they were getting into.

I personally think that there has to be a better way. Just my 2.5 cents

[GSD]

Not sure how exactly Britian is using the dogs, but I'm going to make a fairly reasonble guess that they aren't just sending dogs into every situation they come across without regrard for their lives. These dogs cost a lot of money, have an incredible amount of time invested in training and caring for them, and become part of a team that isn't easily broken. I highly doubt that British officers would put their partners and teamates with 4 legs into harms way without taking every last precaution for their safety.

If they can find another way to make an extremely useful teamate more useful, more power to them.

[GSD]

Originally Posted by Tiffany0204

I don't think I can remember the last time that I've seen/heard of a "shoot-off" in the States. Not all Americans are gun-toting thugs, that's a huge mis-conception that's only been made to seem more likely with movies like Farenheight 9/11 and Bowling for Columbine.

Somebody have something against Michael Moore?? I can think of lots of movies and headlines that were probably seen around the world more than those two movies. Neither of which I've seen, nor do I care to.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

I've been a police officer here in the United States for more years than I care to mention and can't recall ever being involved in a so called "shoot out". Been shot at, involved in many situations involving barricaded subjects with and without hostages and unfortunatly have had to shoot but never a "shoot out".

Not that they don't happen, but not as often as many would like to believe. Columbine while tragic was not a shoot out, two shooters going through a school and shooting their victims is just that. When faced with armed members of law enforcement there was no shoot out, one perp took himself out and the other was shot when he raised his weapon towards officers if I remember correctly.

Many people seem to think that the law enforcement community in this country is nothing more than a bunch of gun toting, happy to shoot you at the drop of a hat bunch of individuals which couldn't be further from the truth. While it is true that there are countries that prefer to have their street officers unarmed and allow their specialty services to come in should they be needed I wonder, what has to happen before that specialty team is called in? Was it because of someone being shot? Many times yes and unfortunatly at times it is that street officer that pays the ultimate price before that call is made.

I'm not posting here to say that those coutries are right or wrong in their way of thinking but I as you must consider and realize that the environment of each particular area may be very different and require a different way to handle certain situations. As for the K9, our K9s are used no more differently than yours Andrew and used just as often. However, just as is done here I very much doubt that your countries dogs are being sent in as the sacrificial lambs you make them out to be.

Yes, K9s are taught to protect their handlers to the death and many have given up their lives to do just that but no good handler would risk the life of their K9 partner unless there was no other option. These dogs are not something so easily thrown away or thought of as " Oh well, we'll just get another." they are in fact thought of just as highly as their two legged partners, they are a member of their department and considered as officers.

If a dog can help keep our police safe, then im well up for it! And no, a dogs life is not worth the same as a persons. Try telling that to the 3 children of a police lady that has just been shot and killed over here.

It always saddens me to hear when one of our own pays the ultimate price. My thoughts and prayers go out to her family and department. Our job is one of uncertainty and although we hope that we never have to give our lives in the line of duty, we also realize that it is very much a part of our daily life and something we are willing to do to keep others safe from harm. But, no life is worth more than that of another.

[Tiffany0204]

Originally Posted by GSD

Somebody have something against Michael Moore?? I can think of lots of movies and headlines that were probably seen around the world more than those two movies. Neither of which I've seen, nor do I care to.

Actually I have nothing against Michael Moore. I own both movies, but I also watched them with a grain of salt, as there are always 2 sides to every story. Since those 2 movies are more mainstream at the time being, I was using them as an example, nothing more.

[TribalRats]

Sonja this is going to sound a bit corny but too bad, YOU and people like you make me proud to be an American.

[Tiffany0204]

Tribal you corndawg! lmao j/k

[TribalRats]