Working-dog owners outraged at complete ban on tail docking

[DoozyDog]

The Times
January 19, 2006

Working-dog owners outraged at complete ban on tail docking
By Valerie Elliott, Countryside Editor

THE world of country sports is furious at a U-turn by the Government to bring in a total ban on the tail docking of dogs.
Ben Bradshaw, the Animal Welfare Minister, announced the decision yesterday during the committee stage in Parliament of the Animal Welfare Bill. He offered no exemptions for working dogs, such as gun dogs or police and Customs dogs, or for a vet to authorise tail docking under certain conditions. The breeds most affected are cocker and springer spaniels, terriers and German short-haired and wire-haired pointers.

The announcement came after Mr Bradshaw had canvassed the views of MPs on the Bill’s standing committee. A ban could be in force this year.

The change of policy immediately puts the Government on a new collision course with the countryside lobby, especially as ministers have persistently spoken up for game shooting and said that the sport was safe. The Government’s position had been to maintain the status quo, which is to allow any owner to ask a vet to dock a dog’s tail within ten days of birth. About 70,000 puppies have their tails docked each year.

However, ministers recognised that the issue was controversial and made clear that the matter was for Parliament to decide. Some ministers had supported docking for therapeutic reasons or if a vet could show that there was a need — for example, if the animal was to be a working dog. Docking for cosmetic reasons was widely opposed.

Once the Animal Welfare Bill receives Royal Assent the plan is to introduce secondary powers in Parliament this autumn to achieve a ban.

Breeders of pets and show dogs were also disappointed. Among the breeds affected in this category are boxers, Old English sheepdogs and Pembroke corgis, favourites of the Queen — although her own pet “dorgis”, a dachshund and corgi cross, are not docked.

Mr Bradshaw told The Times: “The Government holds the view that it should not be the persuader on such a contentious issue and we say we wish to listen to the views of Parliament. I was struck that the views in the committee were very strongly in favour of a complete ban on the docking of dogs’ tails and no one spoke up in favour of the status quo.”

The British Association for Shooting and Conservation is to lobby MPs and argue that such a ban would cause widespread suffering of gun dogs. Simon Clarke, a spokesman for the association, said: “From our calculations there are some 450,000 gun dogs in England and Wales. Given the precedent in Sweden, which introduced such a ban in 1989 when some 35 per cent of working dogs were injured, we are looking at 150,000 working dogs that are likely to get appalling tail injuries.

“Spaniels are widely used as gundogs and as sniffer dogs for law enforcement. Whether working in the field or in confined spaces, they are especially vulnerable to horrendous tail injuries. The tail becomes flayed and sprays blood. It usually requires major surgery and amputation. There is a clear welfare case for docking working dogs, especially spaniels and pointers.

“This should be done at the discretion of a vet who is satisfied that it will be in the animal’s best interests. We will be making a strong case to MPs that a tightly controlled exemption is in the best interests of animal welfare.”

Graham Downing, spokesman for the Council of Docked Breeds, said: “Given that the Government was backing the staus quo, it is very surprising and disappointing that the Minister has expressed a preference for a total ban.”

[kazkirkpatrick]

Once again, uneducated people meddling with things they have no idea about because they think its wrong but dont bother to look at the facts.

[mrsgrubby]

Hmmm, It seems like the government could find more pressing matters to spend their time like murder, stealing, drunk driving, rape.

[TribalRats]

I wonder if there will be a huge push over there to get there pups out now, before the ban is imposed.

[dogs4life]

I was thinking the same thing TribalRats.

I'm sure there's a chance a law could be passed but not enforced...we have a ton of those in the US.

I can't help but wonder if breeders might be looking for different countries to relocate or like you said "get there pups out now".

Will this affect the international dog shows in any way?

[Cassiepeia]

I don't see why legitimate working dogs need to be a part of it, but I'm all for the ban on cosmetic docking. It's illegal down here too.

Cass.

[Carrie]

That's socialistic governments for you. Control, control, control.

Once again, uneducated people meddling with things they have no idea about because they think its wrong but dont bother to look at the facts.

You're absolutely right. There will be a lot of dogs with horrendous injuries to their tails and what business is it of any government to decide whether a dog is considered working or not? Cosmetic shouldn't even enter the picture. This is not a political matter.

This tail docking before 4 days of age or so is painless...nervous system there, not complete. Why on earth don't they do something about animal abuse and stop this nonesense? It's just infuriating and I see the US following in their footsteps. Fascists!

Now, do you want to know how I reeeeeeelly feel?

[rottnpagan]

Originally Posted by TribalRats

I wonder if there will be a huge push over there to get there pups out now, before the ban is imposed.

I doubt it, as Germany has had a docking ban for a few years now. They just don't dock anymore.

Oddly enough, the UKC just revised the rottweiler breed standard to include a tail version, something that AKC and the American Rottweiler Club are at vicious loggerheads over.

Frankly, it's a rottweiler, no matter what's attached to its ***. And we've got bigger worries to be concerned over, what with BSL breathing down our necks.

[BellFounder]

Personally i am very pleased about the ban, but not so pleased that there will not be exemptions for working dogs as proposed in the status quo - that IS a welfare issue. I would have supported anything stating that a spaniel with a working gundog lisence could have its tail docked. Although i also fully support a complete ban on docking any dog that will be a pet or showdog and would have been annoyed had the status quo been passed without a lisencing clause as that would ahve left the way WIDE open for people to SAY their dogs were working animals when in fact they were not. However the argument for docking pointers is moot. The reason german pointers are docked is the terrain over which they run in their native country. In the UK there is no reason to dock them as due to the nature of their traditional roles they run the same terrain as english pointers who are NOT and have never been docked. If you want a docked pointer opt for the naturally docked bourbonnais pointer.

[Novel]

As I own all docked breed dogs, with docked tails, I am so discouraged that this is even an issue.

Why is there not a ban imposed on dew claws?? I see that there is quite a bit of study to support that dew claw docking may be effecting joint structure and cartilage health. However, if there were a ban on dew claws, I would do that still too.

I've been in the field with dogs with dews and a long tail, and they are a bloody mess after a few hours. These people are enacting laws to pacify whom???

I've never seen a tail docking protest or sit-in. Like Mrs Grubby said, have they fixed all the other problems that this is all they have to focus their attention on??

Also, I think that the breed clubs that change their standards are forgetting who is supposed to be protecting and bettering the dogs. Since when do we let government dictate what our dogs look like? In Weims, at AKC shows, it is a fault to not have the proper length tail, and a DQ to not be docked at all. I hope we stick to our guns and keep it that way.

Finally, I don't want a bourbonnais pointer, I want a Weim, with a docked tail, like it's been for generations upon generations. Even if my dogs never set foot in a bog, field or forest, I would still want to have them docked. It is what they look like, it is their standard, plain and simple. And if I ever decided I did want to hunt them, would you rather I docked their tails at 6 or 7, when it's now amputation and causes pain, suffering and who knows what else?

[crazy_puppy]

I agree with Novel. MY GSD would probably have benefited from being docked. I am not a police officer and I dont hunt, but my dog has hurt her tail countless times. They need to consider active homes as well.

[BellFounder]

Originally Posted by Carrie

It's just infuriating and I see the US following in their footsteps. Fascists!

It strikes me the fascist is the person who feels the need to surgically alter an animal in order to make them fit their idea of "beautiful". People who dock/crop etc just because they feel "thats the way an animal should look" make me sick. If you dont like the way your dog is born looking then dont get that dog. Simple.

[britishbandit]

This tail docking before 4 days of age or so is painless...nervous system there, not complete.

Exactly! This really is a nonsense issue. My Rottis and offspring have always had their tails docked and dewclaws removed, and done at 3 days old (some smaller breeds can go up to 5 days old). The procedure is so minor, they just put a gel sealer (kind of like a liquid bandaid) on the places their dewcalws were removed, and at the most, 1 or 2 stitches on the end of the stump that is left of the tail. They aren't "knocked out" for the procedure or given any pain relief, they do not need it. I was in the room while they were done, not even a yelp, just a wiggle. They are fine after and the stitches fall out within 10 days. By the next feeding time, all they were concerned about was shoving their way in to find some grub..haha. Having the tail docked has numerous benefits, and can save on a lot of unnecessary injuries. Even a family pet can injure it's tail. If you're looking at being "inhumane" as a reason for not liking it, then WHY? Would that make me a bad person that my cat broke his fang, and had to have it surgically removed. That procedure he had to be put under and observed at the vets office for 48 hours. He was given pills and suffered for a good 3 weeks after it. Spaying and neutering is also painful on them, how many of you who disagree with tail docking have your pets altered? Any kind of surgery or procedure can be uncomfortable or painfull for an animal, and given that the tail docking is WAY down of that list of "painfactor", I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[DFrost]

I am a police officer and a trainer of police dogs. In my 40 years as a trainer for police dogs, I can count the number of tails that had to be docked for health reasons on both hands. The number of dogs I've worked, trained and worked with goes well into the thousands. Surgery on a dog is either for health concerns or cosmetic. I just don't think too many dogs are suffering from low self esteem needing cosmetic surgery.

DFrost

[Carrie]

People who dock/crop etc just because they feel "thats the way an animal should look" make me sick.

You're teetering on getting personal here. It's one thing to talk about a government, an almost ambiquous entity... and another to make comments which are flaming to members on this forum.