More on Millan

[Carrie]

More on Millan: Guest Blog by Jolanta Benal

The thing about being a dog trainer and behavior consultant who works hard, and continues to work hard, learning as much about the science of dogs as I can—about how they grow, develop, and learn; about their communication and interaction with humans and nonhumans—the thing about studying the science and then having a discussion with a Cesar Millan fan, is that you feel as I imagine a paleontologist feels having a discussion with a creationist. The sense that the other party is living in an alternative reality is a little disorienting. How the heck does someone get to be an expert on a species when he has made no scientific study of it whatever? How does it happen that other people accept his claim to expertise? I don’t mean the fellow has to have a degree, I just mean it would be nice if he gave the impression of having read and understood, say, James Serpell, Karen Overall, Steven Lindsay, or Patricia McConnell. Given his truly weird ideas about dog social behavior, he could use a look at Raymond and Lorna Coppinger, and Roger Abrantes, too.

Here are my qualifications for talking about Cesar Millan’s methods: I have watched several episodes of his show, and I read the interview in the Times last Sunday. Some fan of his is going to post and say I’m insufficiently familiar with the man’s oeuvre, but sorry, I didn’t have to eat the whole salad to know that large parts of it were very, very bad.

Here are the things I do like: Yes, it’s important for dogs to get adequate exercise—most of them don’t. Yes, the suburban backyard is a jail cell for a dog. Yes, it’s good to act calm around a fearful dog. And yes, everyone living in a household has to know what the rules are for that household, and that includes the dogs.

Also, the one really good thing Millan does, as someone who works with dog behavior on TV, is get across the message that behavior can be changed. I cringe when a client asks me about Millan’s methods, but maybe that client wouldn’t have called a behavior counselor if he hadn’t seen CM on TV.

But that’s it. Apart from what I’ve cited above, Millan, as a behavior expert, seems to be a member of the Flat Earth Society.

That Times interview. Does Millan know that dogs probably evolved as semi-solitary scavengers in the vicinity of human settlements? “In the natural dog world, the dog is always behind the pack leader.” Oh pull-eaze! The closest thing to the “natural dog world” today, if prevailing scientific theory is correct, is probably a Third World village, and you can see for yourself in any such place that the dogs travel kinda sorta together but often alone, in a very loose way, basically focusing on whatever piece of garbage they can find to eat. I don’t know where he got that “90 miles a day” thing, either. These are skinny dogs hanging around the dump, or the tourist restaurant; it would be astonishing if they traveled 20 miles a day, let alone 90. To what purpose? They can’t afford that kind of energy expenditure, for pete’s sake.

And am I really supposed to believe that when my dogs and I are taking the same boring last-pee-before-bedtime walk around the block that we take every single night, and they walk ahead of me, it’s because they’re staging a palace coup, not because they … um … know exactly where we’re all going? We’re on a country hike, my dog-who-loves-to-swim realizes we’re getting near the creek and pelts ahead of me to jump in. Whoops, was that my pack leadership going by? Or was he just excited about getting in the water?

Science isn’t the only thing missing here—a little common sense might come in handy too.

As for the TV show—I’ll just talk about one episode: the Great Dane afraid of shiny floors. Yes, Millan succeeded in getting the dog to walk tractably on shiny linoleum floors, and he did it by inducing what’s called learned helplessness. He dragged the dog onto the linoleum and kept him there. The dog's efforts to escape did not work, and the dog gave up. That is learned helplessness. It’s not the same thing as being comfortable and relaxed. At the end, the Dane’s tail is down, his head is down, and he is drooling profusely. For those who have eyes to see, he’s a picture of fear and misery.

Sadly, his guardian had had the right idea: she was laying down carpet runner for the dog to walk on. I would have started exactly the same way, and when he was comfortable walking down the hall, left a little gap of linoleum, small enough so he could step over it. And slowly the gap would have grown. I would have put Musher’s Wax on the dog’s paws so as to be sure he had traction: remember, he was afraid of shiny floors because he’d taken a bad spill on one. The hallway would be a place of fun with his guardian and chicken treats.

I’m sure this would have taken longer than Millan’s method, but at the end the dog would have been walking happily and confidently, not hanging his head and drooling.

And that’s the trouble with Cesar Millan. He’s got a hammer—the dominance idea—and he thinks everything he sees is a nail. He’s constantly forcing what needs to be gentled along. And it’s all very well overpowering dogs when you work out every day and have a Y chromosome on board, but what is my five-foot female client with two little kids supposed to do? What about the elderly man with a brand-new hip? What if you are a man who works out every day but you don’t enjoy physical confrontation as a way of life? What are you supposed to do then?

Call a clicker trainer.
________________________________________________


The IPDTA believes Cesar Milan's techniques

to be not only grossly outdated,

they are potentially damaging to a dog's

physical and psychological well-being!

Response to Cesar Milan and his methods from a positive dog trainer/behaviorist


From Andrew Luescher, DVM, Veterinary Behaviorist
Animal Behavior Clinic
Purdue University

"I reviewed the four preview-videotapes kindly submitted to me by National Geographic. I very much appreciate having gotten the opportunity to see these tapes before the program goes on the air. I will be happy to review any programs that deal with domestic animal behavior and training. I believe this is a responsibility of our profession.

I have been involved in continuing education for dog trainers for over 10 years, first through the How Dogs Learn" program at the University of Guelph (Ontario Veterinary College) and then through the DOGS! Course at Purdue University. I therefore know very well where dog training stands today, and I must tell you that Millan's techniques are outdated and unacceptable not only to the veterinary community, but also to dog trainers. The first question regarding the above mentioned tapes I have is this: The show repeatedly cautions the viewers not to attempt these techniques at home. What then is the purpose of this show? I think we have to be realistic: people will try these techniques at home, much to the detriment of their pets.

Millan's techniques are almost exclusively based on two techniques: Flooding and positive punishment. In flooding, an animal is exposed to a fear (or aggression) evoking stimulus and prevented from leaving the situation, until it stops reacting. To take a human example: arachnophobia would be treated by locking a person into a closet, releasing hundreds of spiders into that closet, and keeping the door shut until the person stops reacting. The person might be cured by that, but also might be severely disturbed and would have gone through an excessive amount of stress. Flooding has therefore always been considered a risky and cruel method of treatment.

Positive punishment refers to applying an aversive stimulus or correction as a consequence of a behavior. There are many concerns about punishment aside from its unpleasantness. Punishment is entirely inappropriate for most types of aggression and for any behavior that involves anxiety. Punishment can suppress most behavior but does not resolve the underlying problem, i.e., the fear or anxiety. Even in cases where correctly applied punishment might be considered appropriate, many conditions have to be met that most dog owners can't meet: The punishment has to be applied every time the behavior is displayed, within ½ second of the behavior, and at the correct intensity."

"Most of the theoretical explanations that Millan gives regarding causes of the behavior problems are wrong. Not one of these dogs had any issue with dominance. Not one of these dogs wanted to control their owners. What he was right about was that calmness and consistency are extremely important, but they don't make the presented methods appropriate or justifiable."

"The last episode (compulsive disorder) is particularly unsettling because compulsive disorder is related to an imbalance in neurotransmitter levels or receptors, and is therefore unequivocally a medical condition. Would it be appropriate to treat obsessive compulsive disorder in people with punishment? Or have a layperson go around treating such patients?"

"My colleagues and I and innumerable leaders in the dog training community have worked now for decades to eliminate such cruel, ineffective (in terms of true cure) and inappropriate techniques. "
__________________________________________________ ______________
“Dominance” Fact or Fiction

By Norma Jeanne Laurette

Let me begin by saying I was taught the “dominance” theory - as it pertains

to our pet dog's and their behaviour toward us, their owners. Within the first

year of running dog training classes, I garbaged the choke chain, pinch collar,

alpha rollover and all use of force or physical punishment, because I quickly

realized the potential harm to the dog, both physically and psychologically.

At that point I didn't realize there were many trainers already using positive

methods, I was the only one in my city with my beliefs and I felt very much

alone. Since then, I have met so many of like mind, and have learned so much.

I'm happy to say, my city is now close to 100% positive trainers. Although I

no longer taught pushing or punishing, I did teach the “dominance” theory, but

I no longer agree with the concept, here's why.

There's a common belief that dogs will challenge their owners in an attempt to

rise in rank and lead the pack. This theory has been around for decades, and although still popular, many canine behaviour experts believe it to be incorrect.

Dog owners and trainers alike often use the “dominance” theory to explain a

variety of canine behaviours. Trainers often use this theory to justify the use of physical techniques designed to over-power the dog, to intimidate it into subservience, in order to stop unwanted behaviour. Unfortunately, this has cost

many dogs their lives. “Dominance exercises” have been directly related to

aggression and other unwanted behaviour, and in one case, the trainer actually

killed the dog while attempting to force it into submission. R10

The concept of “ranking” comes from the idea that a wolf will challenge another

of similar rank, hopefully winning each challenge, gaining higher status, and eventually, leading the pack. Many believe this behaviour has been passed down

over thousands of years, affecting the behaviour of domestic dogs with their

human families. R1



During the socialization period of development, a puppy is imprinted with

recognition of its own species. Dogs do not identify humans as “canines” or

“pack members”, because we smell, think and behave differently. R2 According

to John Fisher, because we are not perceived as dogs, they will not compete

with us for status. R3 Also, with “alpha” position comes the responsibility of

roviding for the pack. Because we provide everything the dog needs; food,

shelter etc., it would be counter-productive for a dog to challenge us for

“alpha” position. R4


In reality, only “unacquainted” wolves living in captivity compete for status,

especially during mating season, due to confined territories and limited

resources. R7 Wolves living in the wild are dominated by one alpha male and

female breeding pair, that guide and protect their cubs. R9 As soon as they are

old enough to mate, these cubs will leave the pack to find mates, and raise

families of their own. R8



According to Coppinger, dogs became isolated from their wild ancestors long

ago resulting in a new species, the Canis Familiaris - the domestic dog. R6

Although some wolf-like behaviours remain, as a different species, it's not

realistic to assume that all dog behaviours will be the same as that of the wolf. However, if we choose to compare domestic dogs' behaviour to it's natural

ancestors, we should be comparing it to the wild wolf, not wolves attempting

to survive in the face of human interference. R5



Every behaviour blamed on “dominance” is normal and can be explained by

simple motivation and reinforcement. It's quite simple, dogs want as many

good things as they can get. R11 If you saw a $100 bill lying in the street would

you not pick it up? Why then is a dog helping itself to your dinner “dominant”,

when they are scavengers by nature? It's not a “dominant” dog that takes your

food, it's a normal dog doing what comes naturally to its species.


If we want dogs to behave in a manner that is not normal to it's species, we

have to control the environment, teach new behaviours and reinforce them.

Although dogs need good leadership in order to be good companions,

“dominating” them has proven to be counter-productive at the very least. It's

time to stop blaming, labeling and punishing, and start teaching.



References

R1 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 4 – Dominance: Where Does It

Come From?

R2 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 4 – Pack Theory

R3 - Diary of a Dotty Dog Doctor, John Fisher 1997

R4 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 5 – Pack Theory

R5 - Dominance Fact or Fiction?, Barry Eaton 2002, Page 7 – Origins Of The Pack Rules

R6 - The Domestic Dog, Edited by James Serpell 1999

R7 - Dominance Fact or Fiction? Barry Eaton 2002, Page 6 and 7 – Origins Of The Pack Rules

R8 - Dominance Fact or Fiction? Barry Eaton 2002, Page 7 – Origins Of The Pack Rules

R9 - Alpha Status, and Division of Labor in Wolf Packs, David Mech, 2000

R10 - http://www.palmbeachpost.com/pbcentr...ddog_0719.html

R11 – The Power of Positive Dog Training, Pat Miller, Howell Book House, Wiley Publishing Inc., 2001
__________________________________________________ ___________

"That Behavior is Unacceptable"

Everyone asks me about Cesar Millan, The Dog Whisperer and what I think of his show. First, I'd like to say that I am excited that obedience training has moved to the front of people's minds and onto prime time television.

I am also glad that Cesar tells people to contact a professional trainer to help with the methods - However, this doesn't always happen. The movie magic that happens on the show, leads people to believe that within a few minutes, their aggressive dog can be FIXED and this is dangerous!

Most pet households suffering from aggression have much deeper problems within the pack make-up and pet owners must seek professional help to fix ANY type of aggressive behaviors. Without a professional you take the risk of making the problem worse without realizing it.

Reviewed by Pat Miller for The Bark

Almost every dog-training book has something to offer the discerning reader, and Cesar's Way is no exception. The book's strength is as an autobiography of National Geographic's TV dog-trainer star, Cesar Millan. If you're curious about how Millan got where he is today, this book will tell you. If you're looking for significant help training your dog, however, look elsewhere.

Many in the behavioral science community view the tenets—and consequences— of Cesar's “way” with trepidation. In an interview published in the New York Times in February of this year, Dr. Nicolas Dodman, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Tufts University 's Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, observed, “My College thinks it is a travesty. We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years.”

Millan provides little in terms of concrete training information, offering instead broad generalizations about projecting “calm-assertive energy”—a Millan catch phrase—and instilling “calm, submissive energy” in your dog. For example, in Chapter 8, he offers “Simple Tips for Living Happily with Your Dog.” His “Rules of the House” include:

“Wake up on your terms, not his condition him to get quietly off the bed if he wakes before you do.”

“Don't allow possessiveness over toys and food!”

“Don't allow out-of-control barking.”

Good advice, perhaps, but, nowhere in the book does he explain how to accomplish these things, other than by using calm-assertive energy.

Millan is nothing if not confident. He admits to his “politically incorrect” reliance on old-fashioned dominance theory, stating, “To dogs, there are only two positions in a relationship: leader and follower. Dominant and submissive. It's either black or white.” He even has the hubris to bemoan the unwillingness of authorities to allow him to rehabilitate Hera, one of the two notorious Presa Canario dogs who killed Diane Whipple in the hallway of her San Francisco apartment building.

In Millan's world, every behavior problem is addressed in terms of dominance and submission. He even uses the alpha roll as part of his “dominance ritual”; this technique—forcibly rolling a dog on his side or back and holding him there—is considered by many to be a dangerous practice based on faulty interpretation of wolf behavior. It long ago fell into disfavor with trainers whose methods are based on the science of behavior and learning.

Where Millan talks about “energy,” science-based trainers talk about behavior, and generally agree that status in social groups is fluid and contextual, not black or white. Truly effective and long-term success in behavior modification requires a far more studied and complex approach than simply asserting dominance.

Interpretation of dog body language diverges just as widely. Millan refers in his book to Kane, a Great Dane who appeared on his TV show who was afraid of slick linoleum floors. Millan claims that with less than 30 minutes of his calm, assertive influence, Kane was striding confidently down the slick hallway. Every trainer I know who has watched that segment notes the dog's post-Millan, obvious and ongoing stress signals: head and tail lowered, hugging the wall, panting.

Millan touts the benefits of exercise in modifying dog behavior, a concept I heartily endorse. However, his book starts with a description of the four-hour exercise session he engages in with his pack of dogs every morning in the Santa Monica Mountains of Southern California, followed by afternoons spent rollerblading with those same dogs, 10 at a time, on the streets around his training center.

One of the tenets of a successful training program is that it gives the dog owner tools he or she can apply. How many dog owners can spend six hours a day exercising their dogs? How many can project “calm-assertive energy”? The danger of Cesar's Way is that it assures owners that quick fixes and easy answers lie in the hands of a smiling man with the elusive calm-assertive energy.

In fact, answers are better found in the beautiful complexity of life, where solutions are often not quick and easy, but are solidly built on a sturdy foundation and an understanding of how behavior really works.

Reprinted with permission courtesy of The Bark magazine

[sammy]

Those are great articles ! They pretty much say it all.

[Raised By Wolves]

Pretty funny! But, not as good as the reeally venomous remarks posted on the Bark blog by the "Positive Only" extremists.

Maybe if Ms. Benal had actually read Cesar's book, she would have noticed he has Patricia McConnell's "The Other End of the Leash", on his recommended reading list.

[GSD]

you know, I don't really follow Cesear very far, I do much different things with my dogs, but if he's failing so miserably, and he's so bad, and obviously anyone associated with the Pet Dog trainingAssocaiation has such superior brain power and technique, surely they should be able to at least match him???

and another thing that stands out, they like to bash and discredit for using positive punishment and flooding as if they are always a bad thing, sorry sister if they were, they wouldn't be as valuable to learning as they are. So by their standards if using only positive punishment and flooding to conquer each mountain, surely using only a clicker and treats could be just as silly to be the only form of behavior modification in every situation.

[sammy]

Originally Posted by GSD

you know, I don't really follow Cesear very far, I do much different things with my dogs, but if he's failing so miserably, and he's so bad, and obviously anyone associated with the Pet Dog trainingAssocaiation has such superior brain power and technique, surely they should be able to at least match him???

and another thing that stands out, they like to bash and discredit for using positive punishment and flooding as if they are always a bad thing, sorry sister if they were, they wouldn't be as valuable to learning as they are. So by their standards if using only positive punishment and flooding to conquer each mountain, surely using only a clicker and treats could be just as silly to be the only form of behavior modification in every situation.

Not sure what you mean by "match him" if you mean rehabilitate human aggressive dogs then there are many who do. They don't use flooding or positive punishment to achieve it. The two that stick outin my mind the most are Patricia McConnell and Pam Dennison. Both of their dog training practices are mostly dealing with aggression.
In the end they end up with dogs who are stable not just suppressed. It's just plain untrue that Cesar takes on dogs that nobody else will work with. Many trainers won't work with aggressive dogs but he's certainly not the only one who does. He also doesn't have a very high success rate by his own admission. Other trainers in NY are getting a fair share of seriously screwed up dogs that have been through Cesar's program.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't really see the logic of your argument. If a certain group of people think one method is bad or harmful than by the same token their method is bad / silly? I don't get it.
One method uses brains, the other uses braun.

[GSD]

Other trainers in NY are getting a fair share of seriously screwed up dogs that have been through Cesar's program.

It doesn't matter what profession you're in, you get clients from other people, dog training, medical, PT, chiropractic, and of course you get the ones that weren't getting results with their previous experience. So what you get is a whole population of unhappy people coming into see you that weren't happy with the other person, kinda gives you a skewed perception, not really reality of what is happening. But his clinic is in CA not NY so i'm not sure why trainers in NY would have such a huge influx of dogs he's seriously screwed up.....

The two that stick outin my mind the most are Patricia McConnell and Pam Dennison. Both of their dog training practices are mostly dealing with aggression.
In the end they end up with dogs who are stable not just suppressed.

ITs a mantra that many positive only people like to keep saying, but reality is, Patricia McConnel knows just as well as I do that a dog with severe dog aggression no matter how they're trained will never be truly comfortable and able to be trusted 100% in any situation. and Patricia knows when to use the hammer. BTW she has a new book coming out on dog emotions and reading them. The brain brawn, supressed vs stable arugments make people feel good, but are pretty blanket statments, many desensitization, click and treat, etc. programs have failed owners and trainers alike that resulted in dogs being put down.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't really see the logic of your argument. If a certain group of people think one method is bad or harmful than by the same token their method is bad / silly? I don't get it.

Well one group think using only two ways is wrong, but using only their two ways is right, both seem pretty limited to me. arguing that going around with a hammer all the time is wrong, but walking around with a clicker all the time is right, seems like a silly arguement.

[britishbandit]

That was great Carrie!
I've never actually watched any of Cesar's shows, but I did read the book Cesar's Way. And although, (same as you), I fully agree that dogs should be walked and exercised frequently and other bits and pieces he mentioned, but I found myself time after time thinking, "what the heck", or completely disagreeing about how he does things and handles particular situations.
I went into reading the book hearing from others what a wonderful dog trainer and behaviorist he was, only to find myself baffled by some of his ways, and even upset about how he handles some things. I don't think the guy is all bad.....like I said, some things, yeah, I agree, sound great....others just seem like the "easy way" out, while not giving the dog the best chance to do it properly, and be confident and happy about what has taken place.
I think due to his popularity, and that he seems to be everywhere these days, people can get stuck either fully agreeing with his ways, or fully hating them. I think it has the potential for some disasters too though. What if what he mentioned in his book or show about a particular dog he "handled", somebody tries to do the same with their own dog, unaware that something could go wrong, or the extent it could go wrong. I'm fairly certain his show likely has some disclaimer saying "don't try this at home" or something similar, but will that really stop someone from giving it a go?
While I feel the drilling he gives on walking, exercise, stimulation, affection and calm assertive energy (which can be a concept that may be hard to understand, or execute), from reading his book can be extremely helpful and a good read. There are still parts of the book that aren't.
One example, was him talking about if you move house, and to take your dog for a walk around the area before you even allow him/her to enter the new home. Great idea...for sure. But how long of a walk does he say, it was something like a minimum of one hour. Which is fine, fair enough, that sounds good. But he also says "prefferably, three hours or more". Isn't that getting a bit excessive now? Does anybodys dog usually go for a 3 hour walk? I don't mean excerise and play, but a full 3 hour or more walk on leash. Since moving tends to happen more frequently in the summer months, whose dog could handle a 3 hour or more walk in that scorching heat? I guarantee that my two would pass out on the sidewalk before the end of that walk. Taking water with me or not. And what if it was winter? Some breeds don't handle the cold well at all. So walking the dog, yeah, great idea, but to possibly cause health problems doing so? I think not. I love my dogs, walk them frequently, work on training and socialization.....and want them to be comfortable and happy. But if I ever move, no way in hell will you catch me taking them for a 3 hour walk to get used to the area because "Cesar said so".
I honestly could pick the book apart, about the agreeable and disagreeable parts, have an absolute hayday with it. Like stated before, I've never seen the show, and it's unlikely I'll start watching it now. I'm far from being either a 100% Cesar fan, or 100% Cesar hater, just somewhere in-between.

[Novice]

Interesting.

[sammy]

Originally Posted by GSD

But his clinic is in CA not NY so i'm not sure why trainers in NY would have such a huge influx of dogs he's seriously screwed up.....

You are right his training center is in CA not NY. My bil who now lives in NY and has seen Cesar both out rollerblading with his dogs and has gone to his center used to live in LA. I got my locations mixed up. My bad.

[D.Schäferhund]

Originally Posted by GSD

ITs a mantra that many positive only people like to keep saying, but reality is, Patricia McConnel knows just as well as I do that a dog with severe dog aggression no matter how they're trained will never be truly comfortable and able to be trusted 100% in any situation. and Patricia knows when to use the hammer.

.

totally agree GSD, i accidently bought the little book on "How to be the Leader of the Pack" of P.McConnell, it is not as nearly positive only that i would have expected after reading her other book.
she knows whe to put a foot down.
i also a gree that dogagressive dogs aren't to be trusted 100%
Lots of dogs are agressive out of fear seldom out of real agressivness.

I think as GSd said, not only one method is good, a method is good, no matter what is used clicker or Ceasars method or any else,if it fits the dog and the handler, if they make good progress with it, and find the way to harmony....

a clicker is a good tool so are tugs, set at the rigth moment like the clicker too they a re valueable tools.... and don't have to exclude the other methods use....( in the same dog handler team)

[sammy]

Kat--I'm curious, what was "not nearly so positive" in How to be the leader of the pack?


I think people get confused with the idea of 'positive training methods'. Just because someone doesn't use pain or startle or other aversives to train a dog doesn't mean they aren't running a tight ship. People seem to think positive = permissive and that's just not the case.
People also seem to think that if you're a 'positive trainer' that you only use clicker and treats - also not true. Reward can be in the form of a toy to retrieve, to tug, being released to go to something they want (another dog, a squirrel) etc. Premack is probably the best training concept out there. Some behaviors are better trained with a clicker than others. Some 'positive trainers' don't use clickers at all-- I don't think Ian Dunbar is a clicker trainer but I could be wrong.

In an interview Bob Bailey said more or less what I feel about aversives:
"6. Do you believe it's possible to train a performance animal to competition-precision without using aversives?

I have never been in dog "competition." I have trained and utilized dogs, and other animals, under some pretty difficult, and even stressful environments. Our dogs, cats, ravens, vultures, dolphins, and other animals, had to perform complex tasks in novel and even hostile environments, sometimes over many hours. Only rarely did I resort to punishment, and then only to preserve life and limb (literally). I find it difficult to understand why punishment would be necessary to teach the relatively simple behaviors asked for in "competition."

the link for the whole interview is http://www.clickersolutions.com/interviews/bailey.htm

Of course there is always more than one method to teach a dog a behavior. Just because someone doesn't like or approve of Cesar's methods of alpha rolls, scruff shakes, kicking dogs, flooding etc doesn't mean they see only one way to do something.

What I can't figure out is when there are perfectly good methods to train a behavior / extinguish a behavior without using aversives or positive punishment, I can't figure out why anyone would - esp with their dog.
That's not a mantra I recite "to make myself feel good". I haven't come across anything yet that I haven't been able to train and proof with excellent reliability that couldn't be taught without the use of aversives or +P.

[D.Schäferhund]

Hi
she inforces the wait on the door with bodyblocks, wich aren't that bad, but i don't agree with the issue of beeing the leader when you go first through a door, in hard cases it can help but i generall, no...
same with the elevated sleeping....

I do not agree with following sentence in "Leaders i the lead":
"after all, if your dog is in the lead, he's the leader, right?"

also with the statemnet about tug of war:
"Pack leaders get the prize, and if you play play lots of strenght gmes with your dog and he always wins (i.e. you walk away when you are done and he still has the tug toy) then he's also just impproved his status relative to yours"

It is a little booklet, maybe i would have expected a more holistic aproach after reading her book. It is short and to some degree helpfull but it sounds like she is able to set her foot down if needed. not that she will get unreasanable rough but knows how to inforce rules.

I agree a lot of things can be tought over positive reinforcement and i do agree that some of Cesars problemsolving could have taken a differnt way, that might have taken longer but would have resolved the issues more stressless for the dog, on the other hand there are situations where a tug on the leash is a thing to do, and then very helpfull.
I would love to take a peak in her new one for feisty fidos, if she looks more on the fear induced agressive dogs (wich the reviews stated) or if she has advice in there for like dogagressive dogs that don't act out of fear, do you by chance know?