Blue Weimaraners

[k9hullio_sam]

OOHHHH! Gotcha! I didn't even think of BYB...that makes sense. Well, one day, when I am a weim expert...I will make a BLUE breed!!! lol In the mean time, I will just ooh and ahh!!

[12weimgirl]

I agree with you most blue weims i have saw are ugly but they get the most attention in public.

[Novel]

Yes, blues get lots of attention, and they are very pretty, there is no denying that. But, the general public, like their fascination with "doodle" dogs, wouldn't know a bad thing until it bit them.

[sparks19]

Wow very interesting looking dog. Thanks for posting the pics and all the info

[PawNclaws]

Although there would be some work as to the standard, making it maybe slightly different, more orientated towards hunting, larger, smaller, etc... it would be a way to take the "blues" out of just the BYB hands and put them back in the hands of reputable breeders who would once again work for the overall health and betterment of the breed.

I see where this is going and its a pretty good idea. I meen why not create another "type" of Weimaraner ?? If some one took the liberty of breeding blues with this goal in mind I bet they could get some great results.. Take the best bred blues , get ALL health tests done and try to make certain traits come out(like you said smaller/bigger/ etc)- that in turn would take years but if done properly they could re-introduce the Blue Weimaraner to the AKC- and have it a breed "the Blue Weimaraner". Now instead of a different breed, couldn't they do what the Fox Terrier breeders did and make "variaties" and have the Blue Weim as a 2nd Weim variaty ? that would be alot easier then creating a new breed wouldn't it ?

[Novel]

Originally Posted by PawNclaws

Now instead of a different breed, couldn't they do what the Fox Terrier breeders did and make "variaties" and have the Blue Weim as a 2nd Weim variaty ? that would be alot easier then creating a new breed wouldn't it ?

It would be alot easier than creating a new breed, but... The WCA (National Club) has vowed they would never let the blues back in, people have been trying for 34 years now. The AKC has said that they don't like doing varities, especially in sporting, remember, we have 3 cocker spaniels in the ring for group everytime. That is a BIG sore spot among sporting dog people... as you probably know!
As far as it being more like the dachshunds, where there are multiple varities, but only one dog makes it to group, again, the WCA would never allow it, because that would be direct competition with the blues, which they don't want.
And, although I love Laney, I am of the opinion that Weims should be gray, I'm not even a fan of longhairs, and I'm glad that we don't accept them here in the US. I know, I am bias, and doggy racist, but, when upholding the purity of a breed and its type, when you think of a Weim, you think of a short haired gray dog, with a cropped tail. Don't get me started on that!!! LOL!
The AKC has made it easier to introduce a "new" breed, and although it would take some time, lots of testing and breeding true to type, it could be done, by a group of people that really wanted to see the blues in the ring again.

[sammy]

Personally, if it truly is just a color thing then I don't get it. They are lovely dogs and many people (myself included ) think they are more attractive than the grey. There are many breeds that have more than one acceptable color in the breed standard.

In my heart breed, aussies, the color that is disqualified is sable but there is a good reason--- The sable color can hide the merle gene. Therefore you would accidentally get litters of pups where 25% are deaf or deaf and blind and often have other big / fatal anomalies. (breeding two merles together can be avoided in reds and blacks because it's obvious in the color/ pattern of the dog) Therefore sables should always be spayed/neutered- it's in the best interest of the dogs and the breed. That reasoning makes sense. In aussies blue merle, black tri , red tri , etc can all show .
If they are structurally the same, have the same workability, aren't more prone to some health problem etc why dq a color-- esp a dominant one??? Stuff like that really takes it down to being just a silly beauty pagent. I wish in breed showing that to become champions dogs had to also prove that they could excel at what they are bred to do which is as important if not more so than a certain look.( ithink it's actually that way in some countries - but I can't think of which one) The end result would be healthier dogs with better temperaments that retained their abilities to do what they were orginally bred for.A dog is more than his outer shell.

Look at what's happened with AKC border collies. By judging solely on looks or what can be seen trotting around a ring,they've successfully bred out any and all herding drive in many show line dogs and all your left with is a pretty black and white dog with a certain look. That's certainly obvious with aussies as well . A "show line" dog and a working line dog are vastly different. That's far worse in my mind.

I think it's a shame. And no, I don't think calling blue weims a different breed makes any sense. They are WEIMS, they are just a slightly different color. and heck it's not like they are red or black or somthing-- they still have that really unique ghosty weim look.

[PawNclaws]

Originally Posted by Novel

It would be alot easier than creating a new breed, but... The WCA (National Club) has vowed they would never let the blues back in, people have been trying for 34 years now. The AKC has said that they don't like doing varities, especially in sporting, remember, we have 3 cocker spaniels in the ring for group everytime. That is a BIG sore spot among sporting dog people... as you probably know!
As far as it being more like the dachshunds, where there are multiple varities, but only one dog makes it to group, again, the WCA would never allow it, because that would be direct competition with the blues, which they don't want.
And, although I love Laney, I am of the opinion that Weims should be gray, I'm not even a fan of longhairs, and I'm glad that we don't accept them here in the US. I know, I am bias, and doggy racist, but, when upholding the purity of a breed and its type, when you think of a Weim, you think of a short haired gray dog, with a cropped tail. Don't get me started on that!!! LOL!
The AKC has made it easier to introduce a "new" breed, and although it would take some time, lots of testing and breeding true to type, it could be done, by a group of people that really wanted to see the blues in the ring again.

Ahhh, I see.. I guess I know how you feel on that part, I feel the same way with silver labs and I guess it is like the same debate, in a certain way that is, silvers were never allowed in the ring(thankfully) like the blues once were... No I don't think its called that at all, breeders are supposed to be for keeping in the standards and breeding for the future of the breed, so I think thats good to like the "standard" color and breed for it. I feel the same way about these "rare" colored labs and I'm sure other breeders/owners on this forum feel that way about a certain color in their breed aswell- its only natural when you love your breed so much.

[Novel]

Sammy-
Although I agree dogs should be able to do the jobs that they were created for, I don't think it's necessarily the place of the conformation ring. That is for structure, movement, etc.
In reality, it is up to breeders to choose dogs that are titled in many areas and versatile. If BC breeders were picking dogs that had working titles and conformation titles, you wouldn't see the divergence that is so apparent now... people sacrifice the breed just to win, and that's wrong!

[sammy]

I get the place of the conformation ring. I just think it would be great to have to win in conformation AND something else to be able to have the title of champion-- well, at least for dogs who are in sporting/working/herding groups. Dogs bred for companionship could maybe have to do CGC? I just don't think showing in conformation really does what it's supposed to do- showcase or determine the best breeding stock.

I also think more than one color of a certain breed is a wonderful thing (it's somthing I absoltuely love about ausseis) unless there is a good reason to DQ it. Blue weims are beautiful and IMHO it would be very cool to see them included. If there was something wrong with them or some reason not to want them..... but nothing I've read so far seems to indicate that.

[Novel]

There is no physical health reason that they have been discluded. Some people want weims only to be gray. Some don't want to lose to a weim that has a flashier color. Some feel that the blue speaks of imperfection or half-breed, etc. Some don't want to be different than the rest of the world, or of Germany, who really does lead the Weimaraner world to a certain degree still.
There were alot of motivations, some for what people perceived as the betterment of the breed, some had completely selfish reasons.
Either way, the standard now says they are disqualified. It is still a huge topic of heated discussion, friendships have been ruined, breeders have given up, etc. etc...
Yes, you're right, the conformation ring is supposed to be a measure of breeding stock. It has the specific job of looking at structure, and a bit of temperament and movement. The other titles are supposed to evaluate the other aspects of a dog's abilities and traits. Again, it's up to the breeder to choose dogs that excel as truly excellent examples of the breed to use as breeding stock. A conformation champion is nice. A dual champion, conformation and field, would perhaps be a better choice for breeding. A triple champion, (field, conformation and obeidence) which weims only have one of, ever, would maybe be the best choice, but then again, maybe not. It all depends what your goals are for breeding!

[Cassiepeia]

Now days I think there is a good reason not to include them. They've pretty much been abandoned by reputable breeders and the addition of a blue weim to a breeders line could bring all kinds of trouble health, structure and temperament wise (at least as far as my novice eyes can see).
But I agree, it's a shame the blues are no longer included. Still it's not a huge problem since it is a dominant colour and not going to turn up in a litter unplanned. So it's not like people are dumping that embarrassing 'blue' pup that just happened to pop up in the litter.

I like a bit of colour diversity too, but that's just personal preference and is just as superficial as Weim lovers likeing the one coat colour. In the end is the dogs health, temperament and structure (as well as workability..I absolutely agree on that) that should be priority and sadly the Blues just don't stack up anymore.

But hey, Julie...you know I'm all for you helping the blues to branch off to form their own breed one day.

Cass.

[Novel]

What's amazing is how fast a breed can be led to ruin when ehtical breeders aren't keeping them in line. 30 years ago blues were DQd. I only know of one breeder that said "forget you WCA" and kept breeding them to the same show, health and work quality as before the DQ. Everyone else got out of blues. The BYBers started with them then with absolutely no control from "good" breeders, and I have never seen a good looking one, not to mention the temperament problems. The working ability seems to have stayed pretty high though, but, that is mostly instinct and just hasn't been bred out, because people still buy em as hunting dogs, no matter the color, so they had to still be able to hunt, but.. the temperament is all wrong in so many of them, not to mention their conformation, hind ends especially, have become sadly lacking. and this all leads to dysplasia problems, and bad bites, and so much more, which does have a direct impact on the dog that lives with you.
It's just all such a sordid mess. There is no easy solution, there is no easy fix, but that's the way with dogs all the way around. It's so sad.