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[annie_so_pink]

Hi everyone,
I haven't been on here for a while. I've missed it; hope everyone is doing great!
I have a question about pet stores and puppy mills and immediately thought that here would be the best place to ask. There is a pet store at a little mall in a town about 40 minutes away from where I live. It is privately owned and they keep all of the puppies in baby cribs and have about 20+ puppies in the store as a whole at the time. The store is nicely kept up and appeals to people because of how the puppies are in the little cribs with toys, just like little babies. However, I was in there with a friend this past summer and she saw one of the puppies coughing, it sounded like kennel cough. She asked the lady who was working about it and if that puppy needed to be seen by a vet and be away from the other puppies until it had been checked out because it was with another puppy in its crib, and if it were to be kennel cough, it would easily spread. The lady just quickly answered that the puppy was perfectly fine, also noting that there was absolutely no need for him to go see a vet. That was one red flag about the store. Another is that they have big red signs saying "No credit check required (to buy a puppy)". So a few months have past and I hadn't really thought too much about the store. This evening, however, my sister's boyfriend told me about his neice's friend's dog (or should I say dogs) that they purchased from this same pet store. This family bought a puppy from this store, they had him for a little while, and then he suddenly died. The family was devastated but went back to the store because of their "puppy guarantee", where if the puppy would die unexplainably, they will give you a new puppy. So they were able to receive their second puppy, and then, the same thing happened- the puppy suddenly and unexplainably died. The cause has been said to be heart failure/attacks... This situation is completely overwhelming me and I just do not know what to do about it. To me, it sounds like these puppies are coming from a puppy mill. Please tell me if it gives you the same thought. It is so wrong and to think about it absolutely breaks my heart. Is there anything that I can do about this? Is there a way to report this? And if so, how could I go about doing that?
Thank you!

[Doglover1988]

Yes I do believe they are coming from puppy mills 99% of all pet store puppies come from puppy mills...

[caitlyn8161]

I'm sure these pups are from puppy mills, too. Unfortunately, she's holding up the guarantee by replacing the puppies so I don't think there is much you can do. I have a dog from a puppy mill (not my fault, when my mini schnauzer died my idiot step dad thought he would replace him with the quickest mini schnauzer pup he could find, a puppy mill dog) and he's about 5 years old now I believe. He is the goofiest looking thing I have ever seen. Even his coat doesn't grow right! He's 20 lbs too large (not fat, just pure size) for a mini and is bow legged. When he was young we had to have two of his bottom teeth pulled because they were growing into his upper gum. He's a very obedient dog and my family adores him but I can't imagine what kind of health problems are going to accompany him once he hits old age. But, he has papers. And that's all puppy mills care about. Mass production puppies that can be registered. It doesn't matter what kind of problems the dogs will suffer, as long as they can make money. It sickens me. I wish all puppy mills could be shut down. The fact that pet stores buy from puppy mills disgusts me as well. Why would you want your stores reputations tarnished by unhealthy, poorly bred dogs? Well, there's my rant!

[Ritz459]

Yep, most likely from a puppymill. Some small petstores get their dogs from BYBs, but if that was the case they wouldn't have 40+ dogs all of the time.

You could always feign interest in buying a puppy their for yourself and ask to see what breeder they bought it from. If they don't give out the information then that right there should scream puppy mill, and if they do you can find out for yourself.

Check out these videos. Both are on puppymills found in the state of Indiana (my state). The first is the news team trying to find some answers. The second is a private individual...and shows the true horrors of the puppymills:
YouTube - WTHR - Indiana's Puppy Pipeline Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhjqBsOCiPs (may not be suitable for minors)

[smeagle]

Either way you look at it puppies in pet stores are not going to come from any where reputable - they are either from backyard breeders or puppy farms/mills. When you think about how many 1000s of dogs there are for sale in pet stores, there is no way the majority can come from smaller backyard breeders - puppy mills breed 100s and 1000s of dogs to fill the demand for puppies in pet stores.

Its very sad and I am a big advocate for banning the sale of puppies and kittens in pet stores (I would rather see rescue dogs being advertised!) and I refuse to shop anywhere that sells animals. The fact is that no reputable or ethical breeder would EVER sell their puppies to a pet store.

[calgal]

Lets put it this way............NO reputable breeder would ever sell to a pet store. The store owners will always tell you they come from local breeders, but ask them to let you see the AKC papers, then jot down the name and try finding them. They don't exist.

[annie_so_pink]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Yes, I do truly think that this may be a puppy mill situation. It breaks my heart... Is there any way to stop things like this? Is there a way to report it? Or is it only possible to report animal cruelty itself, such as in the case of an actual puppy mill?
A lot of their puppies are "designer" breeds- the newest one that I had not heard of yet with the "walrus"- a basset hound and shar-pei mix- Is it correct to assume that no reputable breeders are breeding the designer breeds? Also, do puppy mills tend to focus on smaller breeds? The few times I have walked past, I have always seen a lab puppy and always a bulldog puppy, and once a golden retriever- so not the smallest breeds.

[Carrie]

I'd go to the media and the prevention of cruelty to animals with that story. It's just sickening and you know it happens all over the place all the time. The word just has to get out. So sad.

[smeagle]

Originally Posted by annie_so_pink

A lot of their puppies are "designer" breeds- the newest one that I had not heard of yet with the "walrus"- a basset hound and shar-pei mix- Is it correct to assume that no reputable breeders are breeding the designer breeds? Also, do puppy mills tend to focus on smaller breeds? The few times I have walked past, I have always seen a lab puppy and always a bulldog puppy, and once a golden retriever- so not the smallest breeds.

Yes. IMO, no reputable breeder would intentionally breed any type of crossbreed.

Puppy mills focus on whatever breed or crossbreed sells the most at the time.

[Ritz459]

Our local petstore (that was recentally shut down) had whatever large breed puppy would sell...they had Labs, Goldens, Huskies, Weims, Rotties, Akitas, Saint Bernards, and once (the time I almost broke my "don't buy from petstores" code) they had a French Mastiff puppy. The poor thing was sick...I asked to hold it and its eyes were runny, its nose was runny, and it had diarrhea all over it. It wagged its tail and then just sat in my arms...you could tell it wasn't feeling well at all. Hope the poor little guy found a good home and recovered from whatever was wrong with him.

[Jamila]

Originally Posted by annie_so_pink

It breaks my heart... Is there any way to stop things like this? Is there a way to report it? Or is it only possible to report animal cruelty itself, such as in the case of an actual puppy mill?

I don't know the specifics of trying to stop a puppy mill or a pet store from obtaining these dogs, but I would start with trying to find out, in a nonchalant way, where these dogs are coming from. Then you can work on reporting the source itself. If you see abuse in the pet store you can try reporting that to your local Humane Society if you have one. Do a general search online and see what others have done in the past.

[smeagle]

Originally Posted by Jamila

I don't know the specifics of trying to stop a puppy mill or a pet store from obtaining these dogs, but I would start with trying to find out, in a nonchalant way, where these dogs are coming from. Then you can work on reporting the source itself. If you see abuse in the pet store you can try reporting that to your local Humane Society if you have one. Do a general search online and see what others have done in the past.

It's hard because being a commercial breeder is not against the law - puppy farms are not illegal. The only way you can 'get' a puppy farm is if they are violating the law in regards to animal cruelty and are not providing their breeding dogs with water, food and shelter.

[Jamila]

It is difficult to really get things shut down but if you work hard you might find a way.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by caitlyn8161

I have a dog from a puppy mill (not my fault, when my mini schnauzer died my idiot step dad thought he would replace him with the quickest mini schnauzer pup he could find, a puppy mill dog) and he's about 5 years old now I believe.

These places thrive off of ignorance and grief.

I got my Latte (toy poo) from what I thought was a reputable breeder right after my GSD was PTS. None of their dogs are registered but they did have a life-time health guarantee, require S/N, and offered a lot of pre and post sale support. I felt good about them even though I didn't travel the 3 hours to visit their kennels. I spoke to the breeder several times and she gave me a lot of information about poodles and demonstrated her dedication to the betterment of the breed.

The husband of the breeder facilitated me by bringing Latte to a location closer to my house. I should have gotten a clue when they also brought a Maltipoo to the exchange in case I wanted both dogs. At first I thought it was just a whoops litter but then later I noticed them advertising the sale of these and other mutts.

I'm not sorry that I got Latte -- he is my heart. However, I don't like the idea of supporting these type of breeders. My other two dog are rescues and it is highly unlikely that I'll ever purchase a pet from a breeder again.

[Canadian FreeSpirit]

that is exactly what happened to me. I got permission from my landlord in 1996 to get a toy poodle (I live in an apartment). so, I headed for the first newspaper I could find (too soon for internet) and went through the list of people selling Toys. I found a few, but decided to buy from the one that was closest to me since I don't drive, and the others were out of town. and this one was a bit cheaper. (red flag, I know). when I called, I mentioned that I was calling about the ad in the paper, and their answer was, "WHICH one?" second red flag, but I was really new at this. it turned out that they had 2 mini poodles on had, brother and sister. I said I was interested in the girl. the lady I talked to told me that these poodles were bred exclusively for her by a Mennonite woman (the worst puppy mills in the world are run by Mennonites, but I found that out years later. at the time, I thought that that was an indication of quality)
so, they brought the female out to me, and of course she was adorable, and I fell in love instantly. money changed hands, and she was mine. they had given me a verbal guarantee that if there was anything wrong with her in the first 2 weeks, they would give me the option of either exchanging her for a different pup, or have a second pup, and keep her, too.
when I took her for the vet appointment, he examined her and gave me the following bad news. she had (I probably don't spell this right) luxating patellas, which means that there were no grooves on her kneecaps and the tendon, rather than just going up and down the way it's supposed to, also goes side to side. it's a genetic problem. in a small dog, it's inconvenient, but for a big dog it's crippling. there is a very expensive surgery that can be done to correct it, but the vet said she wouldn't need it. she was also very ill. she had an upper respiratory infection. i.e. a cold. $75.00 of medication later, and her first shots (total bill was well over $200) I went home with her. so I called the place where I got her, and told them what the vet had reported. they said they'd come and get her, and give me another dog. I asked what had happened to the option to have a second pup. she flatly denied that there had ever been that option. then I told her that my vet had told me that she was a TOY, not a mini. she swore at me and told me that I owed her money, because she charged more for toys than minis. and when they were coming to get her, they would bring a replacement, and take her away. no, they would not re-imburse me for the vet cost. I asked what they would do with her after they took her away from me. why, sell her again, of course. NO WAY. I said I'd keep her. I didn't want anyone else to get stuck with this sick puppy that I already loved.
I think they operate that way. you love the dog, no matter what's wrong with it, and they threaten to remove it and resell it, while they give you another dog with who-knows-what wrong with it.
eventually I looked through the classified section to see how many other ads they had, and for what. they had more than 10.
my dog was okay for the next few years, although she had asthma, and I knew that she would never live the 18 years her breed should. I hoped for at least 12. but that wasn't to be. she went stone-blind when she was 7 and was completely senile by 9. I made the call, and ended her suffering. I know, from having learned the hardest possible way to do much more research about who I'm dealing with. the internet has helped a lot.
oh, and that place I bought her-they're still in business. they have a web page that makes me sick, but I keep track of them for my own curiousity. they are, pure and simple a front for puppy mills of all kinds. the "designer" dogs that they sell are outrageous, and the crosses that they have come up with are almost obscene. and they do a booming business. I think they had about 80 pups on hand for Christmas gifts.