akc pedigree and registation certifcation issue

trident · 01-20-2006, 09:46 AM

i have just learned something that is upsetting. i was talking about breeding my dog awhile back and came to learned that it would not be any help to that breed.so i am not going to do it . but i ask my self, if i was going to be a backyard breeder how could i convince people to buy my dogs. so i went to the akc website and looked up the pedigree and registation certifcation forms and i copyed it and pasted these forms and then had it printed. it looks just like the real ones.now my point is this how can "we" stop this from happaning
for real?i dont want this to get in the wrong hands and people getting
a bad dog.what can i do to stop this?

fluffypuppylover · 01-20-2006, 10:05 AM

Well anyone looking for a GOOD breeder will look for more than the AKC papers, in my opinion. Its about meeting the breeder, the dogs, getting proof of all the certifications and health checks, having the breeder willing to take the dog back, and requiring speuter on non-show/breeding quality dogs.

If people don't look for this in a breeder..well, theres not much you can do.

trident · 01-20-2006, 10:26 AM

well that may be true for some one that know about purebreeds, but what about the one that are new to the world of dogs. i mean people like me . i am not dumb and if i pulled over to see some pups on the corner and the guy had papers(the fake ones) on the pups. and he said say 200.00 for the pups. i am afriad that people would buy into it. and i dont think it would be becuse they are dumb, but that they "trust" this guy because he has the papers

fluffypuppylover · 01-20-2006, 10:46 AM

Well the whole thing about the dog world is you need to be educated before you get a pet. If you pull over and buy a dog off the street, obviously you aren't educated about that breed or maybe even about dogs, because even reading one dog book will teach you that no one with AKC papers would sell off of a street and to anyone who could pay.

I kind of feel it is the buyers responsibility to research what they are getting. If you don't and you stop and buy a BYB bred puppy out of a cardboard box..well its your own fault. Yes, the guy should not be breeding and yes, the papers can be forged. But the info on how to find a good dog breeder is widely available. Its kind of similiar to buying any other product..If you want a car but don't bother researching which one would be best for you, you simply see one for sale on the side of the street, if you buy it and it breaks, its your fault for not going to a dealer with a guarentee or for checking into the car first.

Sayuri · 01-20-2006, 11:30 AM

Fluffypuppylover is spot on,
the unfortunate fact of the matter is that it's a buyer beware world, and it behooves each and every individual to be an educated consumer. It's disappointing that when we're dealing with individual lives here we have to take such things into account - no one likes the idea that there are people *using* animals for profit, and pulling the wool over other people's eyes - but it's also realistic.

What is the best thing we can do to prevent this from happening? Your one and only answer, in my opinion, is education. The word needs to be spread that buying a dog is not a decision that should be made on impulse, that papers are no guarantee of quality, and that a great deal of research should and must be done into the breed and the breeder before bringing home a puppy. I certainly feel that more people know this today than they used to, but obviously there are still people that haven't, for whatever reason, been exposed to this information. The papers and/or the ability to easily forge them are not the problem - it's the assumption that the papers alone are extremely meaningful, a guarantee that is the problem. You eliminate this myth, you eliminate the problem.

***Carrie*** · 01-20-2006, 01:27 PM

I agree Fluffpuppylover and Sayuri.

Caveat emptor.

trident · 01-20-2006, 01:39 PM

thank i just found alittle upsetting

bigdoglover · 01-20-2006, 02:06 PM

We all find it upsetting, Trident.....that is what BYB's and PuppyMillers do...fake papers, the whole nine yards just to make a buck. Unfortunately, AKC has gotten to be such a massive organization, they can't take the time to become "breed wardens"....like Sayuri and Fluffypuppylover said, it's a buyer beware world, it not only pays to do the research on the breed, but on the breeder as well.

01-20-2006, 09:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
trident Trident Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio,Tx Posts: 62 Rep Power: 0	akc pedigree and registation certifcation issue i have just learned something that is upsetting. i was talking about breeding my dog awhile back and came to learned that it would not be any help to that breed.so i am not going to do it . but i ask my self, if i was going to be a backyard breeder how could i convince people to buy my dogs. so i went to the akc website and looked up the pedigree and registation certifcation forms and i copyed it and pasted these forms and then had it printed. it looks just like the real ones.now my point is this how can "we" stop this from happaning for real?i dont want this to get in the wrong hands and people getting a bad dog.what can i do to stop this?

01-20-2006, 10:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
fluffypuppylover Toller Girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bethlehem, PA Posts: 94 Rep Power: 0	Well anyone looking for a GOOD breeder will look for more than the AKC papers, in my opinion. Its about meeting the breeder, the dogs, getting proof of all the certifications and health checks, having the breeder willing to take the dog back, and requiring speuter on non-show/breeding quality dogs. If people don't look for this in a breeder..well, theres not much you can do.
	__________________

01-20-2006, 10:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
fluffypuppylover Toller Girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bethlehem, PA Posts: 94 Rep Power: 0	Well the whole thing about the dog world is you need to be educated before you get a pet. If you pull over and buy a dog off the street, obviously you aren't educated about that breed or maybe even about dogs, because even reading one dog book will teach you that no one with AKC papers would sell off of a street and to anyone who could pay. I kind of feel it is the buyers responsibility to research what they are getting. If you don't and you stop and buy a BYB bred puppy out of a cardboard box..well its your own fault. Yes, the guy should not be breeding and yes, the papers can be forged. But the info on how to find a good dog breeder is widely available. Its kind of similiar to buying any other product..If you want a car but don't bother researching which one would be best for you, you simply see one for sale on the side of the street, if you buy it and it breaks, its your fault for not going to a dealer with a guarentee or for checking into the car first.
	__________________

01-20-2006, 11:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sayuri Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In the gorgeous NW Posts: 932 Rep Power: 134	Fluffypuppylover is spot on, the unfortunate fact of the matter is that it's a buyer beware world, and it behooves each and every individual to be an educated consumer. It's disappointing that when we're dealing with individual lives here we have to take such things into account - no one likes the idea that there are people using animals for profit, and pulling the wool over other people's eyes - but it's also realistic. What is the best thing we can do to prevent this from happening? Your one and only answer, in my opinion, is education. The word needs to be spread that buying a dog is not a decision that should be made on impulse, that papers are no guarantee of quality, and that a great deal of research should and must be done into the breed and the breeder before bringing home a puppy. I certainly feel that more people know this today than they used to, but obviously there are still people that haven't, for whatever reason, been exposed to this information. The papers and/or the ability to easily forge them are not the problem - it's the assumption that the papers alone are extremely meaningful, a guarantee that is the problem. You eliminate this myth, you eliminate the problem.
	__________________ As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

01-20-2006, 01:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,545 Rep Power: 291	I agree Fluffpuppylover and Sayuri. Caveat emptor.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

01-20-2006, 10:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
trident Trident Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio,Tx Posts: 62 Rep Power: 0	well that may be true for some one that know about purebreeds, but what about the one that are new to the world of dogs. i mean people like me . i am not dumb and if i pulled over to see some pups on the corner and the guy had papers(the fake ones) on the pups. and he said say 200.00 for the pups. i am afriad that people would buy into it. and i dont think it would be becuse they are dumb, but that they "trust" this guy because he has the papers

01-20-2006, 01:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
trident Trident Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio,Tx Posts: 62 Rep Power: 0	thank i just found alittle upsetting

01-20-2006, 02:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
bigdoglover Giant Schnauzers Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West-Central Illinois Posts: 3,624 Rep Power: 179	We all find it upsetting, Trident.....that is what BYB's and PuppyMillers do...fake papers, the whole nine yards just to make a buck. Unfortunately, AKC has gotten to be such a massive organization, they can't take the time to become "breed wardens"....like Sayuri and Fluffypuppylover said, it's a buyer beware world, it not only pays to do the research on the breed, but on the breeder as well.
	__________________ Glory and Greed will destroy the breed.

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