Which breed?

[Rip's Girl]

The black and tan coonhound would be the ultimate tracking dog, IMO..

I'm not quite sure what the differences are between the GSD and the Shiloh Shepherd. They are two different breeds, and I haven't heard the most positive things about the Shilohs, even though I find them very pretty.

The Weimaraner is a very beautiful dog but they can be a real handful. LOTS of puppy exuberance throughout their entire lives.

[doberkim]

the shiloh is a breed made in the US and its a mixed breed that now breeds "truer" - its essetially, to not give it justice, a large GSD with long hair.

the english shep is just the english version.

i think somethign ot remember is that while we can recommend - its fairly dangerous for someone to say "i think this breed would be fine for you" based on what we read of someone online. we can present ourselves however we want, and that doesn't make it the real way. and also, we can think what we want about our training abilities, our dogs, our ability to handle things.

the ONLY way i would ever say anything definite about a person being good for a breed was knowing them personally and seeing them interact. especially when it comes to large working breeds. some breeds simply outhink their handlers - some dogs are known for a willingness to please and constantly think of what their handler wants - others are known for doing what THEY want unless forced to do otherwise. and all of these things vary in the dogs mentioned.

a beardie has a lot of hair, i wouldnt go with that if i was you.
a black and tan are great dogs (i would put the bloodhound as uber tracker though --- b&t's are coon dogs and i wouldnt put aything above a b&t, walker, or redbone/bluetick in treeing they can be wonderful house dogs, but it depends - most good working breeders of coonhounds do NOT breed for pet dogs - their dogs live in kennels, tree coons, etc. there are some breeders aiming for showing (some of the coon breeds can be shown in AKC). above all, coonhounds bark - bay, you name it. loud, and can be VERy stubborn. obedience, attention, etc is second to following the nose. they are used to working on their own away from the handler.

collies i love - you can get the smoothcollie (which has short hair) rather than the rough coat (the traditional long coat). They are sweet dogs, fairly large, pretty easy going, trainable, and can do a lot! i would own a (SMOOTH) collie in the future

viszlas - beautiful dogs, i love the hungarian pointer strong noses (they are hunter) - but good with families, other animals, small and agile, and can do it all. i would say this is a good option for you - tracking, obedience, ad agility would be EASY for a viszla. harder to find a good breeder. but worth it! another dog i would own ina heartbeat.

weim - most weims bred today by crappy breeders are off the wall stringbags - they are hyper, uncontrollable, and unfocused - then again, this is only compounded by the fact that most people dont give weims the exercise and stimulation that they deserve. theya re beautiful dogs, and if obtained from a good responsible breeder and worked, could be amazing. but you GOTTA be diligent and find the good ones - a bad weim is the most annoying dog. consider it a dog with ADD.


boxers - good dogs. most are bred for show now, but there are working breeders that maintain the true temperament and working ability of the dog - you just have to find them. they are awesome in obedience and agility - small enough (when properly bred) to make tight turns, etc. and being a dog traditionally once worked in SchH, they DO track they do have some health concerns which makes a responsible breeder even more important.

my main concern with GSDs and ay version of, is your requiremet for shedding. GSDs shed. A LOT. almost all the time. a shiloh has even more hair. i would not get one if you aren't in it to pick up tumbleweeds around your house, brush out the feathers on the rear, and deal with that. even the shorter coated GSDs will drop coats like you wouldnt believe.

personally based on what i know of the breeds adn seeing what you want, i would aim for a viszla or a smooth collie, but that is just taking what you want from a breed and plugging it in in my mind with what i know. they are good workers when trained to do so, need exercise, are pretty gentle sweet dogs that are normally good with other dogs (warning - many working breeds are same-sex aggressive and this is just how it is with them - Dobes come to mind in the forefront with this). If you like a weim and think you could handl eit, then that too. what i would do now is go out and look for local owners annd talk to them, find breeders ad talk to them, and work and handle the dogs. kudos to you for doing research

[Ritz459]

Thanks for all of the advice. I'd have to do more reserch on the Weimeraner to see if it would siut me. I've never really heard much about them.

I think something to remember is that while we can recomend-it's fairly dangoures for some one to say"Ithink this breed would be fine for you" based on what we read of somene online.

Yeh, I know and agree with that. I'm not going to go right out and buy a pup just because somebody recomended it to me. I guess I just want to narrow down the possibililtys. I also know the importance of reaserching your breed and finding a good breeder.
Collies-I've heard that the shed a LOT! (Just like a GSD.) How much do they shed?
Weimaraner-does anybody know any good links to a Weimaraner website? I want to learn more about there temperment.
Boxer-What are their health concerns? I know they can get heatstroke easily but that is about it when it comes to there health...
The Vizsla is something to think about....

[Bradsmum]

Hi There,

You can't go wrong with labradors - they're adorable.

[Rip's Girl]

Labradors are nice guys.. Great at tracking, smart and well-tempered. Labradors are also almost always available in pounds or rescues, even purebred puppies. They're definitely one of the easier-to-acquire breeds. If you buy from a breeder, however, you should be sure to buy from a reputable breeder who breeds dogs for working and the love of the breed. IMO, the labradors in conformation are nice looking dogs, but they couldn't sniff out and retrieve a duck if their life depended on it.

[Barrett]

I have owned a blk & Tan coonhound before. You have to have lots of room and don't have very close neighbors. My pretty girl howled like a wounded elephant and you can hear that sound for miles around. She was very stubborn and near impossible to potty train (it took almost a year!). She was a bit destructive and chewed up the wood siding to my house once. She did great in obedience and learned all of her commands very fast. She loved kids and let my nephews crawl all over her and pull her ears and tail. I was running track in college when I owned her and I would take her for a 5 mile run every night to tire her out. She was sooo smart and playful and loving. I had to give her to my uncle because of her barking. You won't be able to stop a coon hound from howling, baying, barking etc.

Do you like Dalmations? There is a wonderful dalmation in my obedience class. He is by far the most behaved dog in my class. Dalmations do tend to have a lot of health problems so again a good breeder is a must.

I love Weims and Vizslas but every one I have ever seen is an absolute spaz. Not very good around small children for fear of knocking them down and jumping up on them. I don't think they would intentionally hurt anyone but they are so hyper they could hurt small kids and elderly people on accident.

I love Whippets too. They are so fast and agile. I think they are very smart, I bet they would be good at tracking but they are more of a sight hound I guess.

[Ritz459]

I've never really thought about Dalmations. My lil sis loves them so if I get one of those she will be happy . (As long as she doesn't make me name it Pongo or Perdita. ) Yeh, I don't think I will want a dog that Barks and Bays and Howls and never shuts up. I still LOVE the Weimaraners but I will have to think if I can handle them. I LOVE their looks which is kinda blinding me to their temperment. (I know, that's not good.) The first time I saw a Weim was when our new neighbors were driving up our lane, just looking around, and their Weim jumped out there open SUV window to come say 'HI'. (Pretty funny way to meet a breed, I know.) I like Labs but I have a soft spot in my heart for the 'bad' breeds that everybody thinks are evil (even though they aren't) and for the breeds that aren't as poupular. Here is my list of breeds to look into.
1.Boxers
2.American Bulldogs
3.Weimaraners
I like AmStaffs too, but my mom says she won't let me get one if I live under her roof. No matter what I do to try to explain that they are good dogs she just goes, "Nope. Not while you live here." Mothers......

P.S. I still like GSDs but if I can find a type of breed that doesn't shed a whole bunch and I like it's temperment, I'll get one of those instead.

[GSD]

You'll never find a GSD that doesn't shed. When they shed their undercoat it requires lots of brushing, with a rake to get that coat off and then it slows down considerably, but they still shed. By comparison though the rest of the year my friends lab/golden mix sheds as much or more than my GSD so its not that bad. You get used to it really quick because the dogs can do anything. Obviously i'm biased, but that won't change. I've heard some of the longer coat GSD's don't shed as much because they have a longer outer coat, and NO undercoat. i've never owned one so I don't have any personal experience. I'm sure they shed, but if they don't have the undercoat to shed every year it wouldn't be as bad at that time.

As for temperment, do your research and get one froma breeder you trust that has titles on their dogs.

[Ritz459]

I don't think I would care about the shedding, but I think my mom would kinda freak out if there was hair everywhere. (She wants a Siant Bernard so I know she could tolorate fur everywhere but she is going to get one once all of us kids are gone.) I've had some experince with heavy shedding breeds because I've 'owned' an Alasken Malamute before. I'm going to find out all I can on the Weims and Am. Bulldogs and the GSDs and I will compare them and see which one I want to get. Any info or websites about them is more than welcome!! (My dad also likes the GSDs. We were actuallly thinking about getting one before we got Blackie.)

[PitBullie09]

Blue Heeler OR Austrailian Cattle Dog-
*General Appearance
The general appearance is that of a strong compact, symmetrically built working dog, with the ability and willingness to carry out his allotted task however arduous. Its combination of substance, power, balance and hard muscular condition must convey the impression of great agility, strength and endurance. Any tendency to grossness or weediness is a serious fault.

Characteristics -

As the name implies the dog's prime function, and one in which he has no peer, is the control and movement of cattle in both wide open and confined areas. Always alert, extremely intelligent, watchful, courageous and trustworthy, with an implicit devotion to duty making it an ideal dog.

Temperament - The Cattle Dog's loyalty and protective instincts make it a self-appointed guardian to the Stockman, his herd and his property. Whilst naturally suspicious of strangers, must be amenable to handling, particularly in the Show ring. Any feature of temperament or structure foreign to a working dog must be regarded as a serious fault.

Head and Skull -

The head is strong and must be in balance with other proportions of the dog and in keeping with its general conformation. The broad skull is slightly curved between the ears, flattening to a slight but definite stop. The cheeks muscular, neither coarse nor prominent with the underjaw strong, deep and well developed. The foreface is broad and well filled in under the eyes, tapering gradually to form a medium length, deep, powerful muzzle with the skull and muzzle on parallel planes. The lips are tight and clean. Nose black.

Eyes -

The eyes should be of oval shape and medium size, neither prominent nor sunken and must express alertness and intelligence. A warning or suspicious glint is characteristic when approached by strangers. Eye color, dark brown.

Ears -

The ears should be of moderate size, preferably small rather than large, broad at the base, muscular, pricked and moderately pointed neither spoon nor bat eared. The ears are set wide apart on the skull, inclining outwards, sensitive in their use and pricked when alert, the leather should be thick in texture and the inside of the ear fairly well furnished with hair.

Mouth -

The teeth, sound, strong and evenly spaced, gripping with a scissor-bite, the lower incisors close behind and just touching the upper. As the dog is required to move difficult cattle by heeling or biting, teeth which are sound and strong are very important.

Neck -

The neck is extremely strong, muscular, and of medium length broadening to blend into the body and free from throatiness.

Forequarters -

The shoulders are strong, sloping, muscular and well angulated to the upper arm and should not be too closely set at the point of the withers. The forelegs have strong, round bone, extending to the feet and should be straight and parallel when viewed from the front, but the pasterns should show flexibility with a slight angle to the forearm when viewed from the side. Although the shoulders are muscular and the bone is strong, loaded shoulders and heavy fronts will hamper correct movement and limit working ability.

Body -

The length of the body from the point of the breast bone, in a straight line to the buttocks, is greater than the height at the withers, as 10 is to 9. The topline is level, back strong with ribs well sprung and carried well back not barrel ribbed. The chest is deep, muscular and moderately broad with the loins broad, strong and muscular and the flanks deep. The dog is strongly coupled.

Hindquarters -

The hindquarters are broad, strong and muscular. The croup is rather long and sloping, thighs long, broad and well developed, the stifles well turned and the hocks strong and well let down. When viewed from behind, the hind legs, from the hocks to the feet, are straight and placed parallel, neither close nor too wide apart.

Feet -

The feet should be round and the toes short, strong, well arched and held close together. The pads are hard and deep, and the nails must be short and strong.

Tail -

The set on of tail is moderately low, following the contours of the sloping croup and of length to reach approximately to the hock. At rest it should hang in a very slight curve. During movement or excitement the tail may be raised, but under no circumstances should any part of the tail be carried past a vertical line drawn through the root. The tail should carry a good brush.

Gait/Movement -

The action is true, free, supple and tireless and the movement of the shoulders and forelegs is in unison with the powerful thrust of the hindquarters. The capability of quick and sudden movement is essential. Soundness is of paramount importance and stiltiness, loaded or slack shoulders, straight shoulder placement, weakness at elbows, pasterns or feet, straight stifles, cow or bow hocks, must be regarded as serious faults. When trotting the feet tend to come closer together at ground level as speed increases, but when the dog comes to rest he should stand four square.

Coat -

The coat is smooth, a double coat with a short dense undercoat. The outer-coat is close, each hair straight, hard, and lying flat, so that it is rain-resisting. Under the body, to behind the legs, the coat is longer and forms near the thigh a mild form of breeching. On the head (including the inside of the ears), to the front of the legs and feet, the hair is short. Along the neck it is longer and thicker. A coat either too long or too short is a fault. As an average, the hairs on the body should be from 2.5 to 4 cms (approx. 1-1.5 ins) in length.

Color (Blue) -

The color should be blue, blue-mottled or blue speckled with or without other markings. The permissible markings are black, blue or tan markings on the head, evenly distributed for preference. The forelegs tan midway up the legs and extending up the front to breast and throat, with tan on jaws; the hindquarters tan on inside of hindlegs, and inside of thighs, showing down the front of the stifles and broadening out to the outside of the hindlegs from hock to toes. Tan undercoat is permissible on the body providing it does not show through the blue outer coat. Black markings on the body are not desirable.

Color (Red Speckle) -

The color should be of good even red speckle all over, including the undercoat, (neither white nor cream), with or without darker red markings on the head. Even head markings are desirable. Red markings on the body are permissible but not desirable.

Size - Height -


Dogs 46-51 cms (approx. 18-20 inches) at withers
Bitches 43-48 cms (approx. 17-19 inches) at withers.

Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree. Approved: January 11, 1999
Effective: February 24, 1999
The Working Australian Cattle Dog

Introduction: The Australian Cattle Dog was developed to control wild cattle in groups of several hundred on drives through the inhospitable wilderness of Australia. These drives sometimes lasted weeks and crossed from the vast grazing lands of the outback, over the pass in the great dividing range, and through the streets of Sydney to the stockyards. The wild cattle and extremely harsh conditions were such that traditional working breeds were of no use. By crossing smooth-coated blue merle Scottish highland collies to selected dingoes in the 1840's; a drover named Thomas Hall developed a cattle dog that combined the hardiness of the dingo type, and the herding abilities of the highland collie. This cross reinforced the heeling instinct of the collie and eliminated their tendency to bark at the head. About 1860 some of these dogs were brought to the Homebush sale yards in Sydney by a butcher named Alexander Davis, where they "attracted much attention" and were taken by various drovers and butchers. Two brothers, Jack and Harry Bagust purchased some of these dogs and continued to improve on the breed, introducing select Dalmatian bloodlines and later, black and tan Kelpies. They succeeded in "advancing their working ability to intelligent controllable workers whilst retaining the silent biting of the animals heels."

Intelligence:

The Australian Cattle Dog is an independent thinker and once trained, is capable of carrying out routine tasks without supervision. They are highly intelligent, making them self directed workers capable of complex problem solving. They are adept at picking out and punishing trouble makers, while at the same time they can be gentle with calves, lambs or ducks. It is this rating ability that makes the Australian cattle dog versatile enough for different classes of cattle as well as trial or farm work with sheep, hogs and fowl.

Trainability:

The Australian Cattle Dog can be trained to perform various functions on the farm or ranch. They possess high trainability coupled with a strong desire to please. Most Cattle Dogs can perform routine jobs after just a few exposures. A well trained Cattle Dog can replace two to three good men on horseback.

Posture:

The Australian Cattle Dog is considered an upright breed. The head is carried at shoulder level while working, enabling the dog to read the stock and to easily slip in and heel. When confronting stubborn animals at the head, some individuals drop to a crouch, preparing to nose bite, while others raise their heads to challenge and come straight on. Most dogs will experiment with different postures or approaches to win stand-offs with stubborn stock. The Cattle Dog's perfect combination of size, angulation, balance, agility and instinct enables him to continuously heel low and avoid being kicked.

Approach:

The Australian Cattle Dog's approach to stock is calculated and deliberate, and directed at the animal or animals to be moved. He naturally wears on larger groups of stock, but can walk straight in at the balance point on singles or smaller groups of cattle or sheep. Whether an individual dog predominately fetches or drives is due not only to heritage, but can be affected by the dog's age, training technique, and the livestock the dog is started on. Cattle Dogs that fetch usually exhibit very keen natural balance. Regardless of individual style, the Australian Cattle Dog is considered a close worker. There is however variation, with some dogs working and flanking very close and others working and flanking moderately wide and closing the distance to heel. Most can be taught to work wider if required.

Eye:

Australian Cattle Dogs are a loose to medium eyed breed. When heading, turning or otherwise challenging stubborn livestock, some individuals exhibit moderately strong eye, but return to a looser approach once the challenge is won. This loose approach enables the Cattle Dog to see and react to a herd of hundreds of cattle and give attention to just those requiring it, allowing him to work effectively, day in and day out.

Grip:

The Australian Cattle Dog is best known as a "heeler" because of his instinctive grip. This is done in various ways depending on the livestock and rate of travel. Stubborn or wild stock may require a forceful hard biter until trained, whereas dairy cattle may just require a dog's presence. The typical technique is for the dog to time the grip to occur on the foot of the weight bearing leg, and to duck to miss the ensuing kick. The correct "heel" is low on the leg at the fetlock or coronet. The Australian Cattle Dog should not only heel, but use force at the head when turning or stopping livestock. All gripping should be quick with an immediate release. Gripping should be appropriate and not excessive.

Bark:

The Australian Cattle Dog was developed as a silent worker. Force barking when heading or otherwise challenging stubborn livestock is acceptable if it is not excessive. Continuous barking, barking while working at the heels or more than just a few force barks is undesirable

[Ritz459]

I think the sports I would be most interested in is Tracking, Obedience and/or Schutzhund. (how in the heck do you pronounce that anyway?) Since I've fianally decided on what sport(s) I want to do, I've picked these dogs to research: German Shepherd, American Bulldog, Boxer, Doberman Pinscher, Standerd Schnauzer. Thanks for all of your help! I also LOVE Akitas but I know I couldn't handle one of those things. *sigh* All of the dogs I like, are really hard to handle.... Oh well.......

[BigPaws]

Barrett, my Black and Tan is the exact same as yours was. I very much do not recomend this breed to anyone who doesn't have alot of patience. That is just my boy, and seems to have the same as Barrett's so if those two dogs are the breed's mind..then heaven help new Black and Tan owners I think Black and Tans are puppies for 2 years.! Patience Patience Patience!

But .... he is a huge sucks that loves, very cherry ice cream, oatmeal cookies and his new favorite is goats milk.

[Ritz459]

Wow, I remember making that post a long time ago when I didn't know alot about different dog breeds...now I know what my perfect doggy is! lol
My younger brother likes the hound breeds and the Black and Tan is one of his favorites. (His altime favorite being the Blood Hound and the Beagle.)
I can see Wesley with the Hound breeds too...he just loves them.
I find the Black and Tans interesting and cute, but they wouldn't be my first pick of a dog. I would own one, but I wouln't go and say, "Hey, I want a B&T Coonhound for my next dog!"
They are wonderful dogs though.

[annie_so_pink]

Originally Posted by Ritz459

Wow, I remember making that post a long time ago when I didn't know alot about different dog breeds...now I know what my perfect doggy is! lol
My younger brother likes the hound breeds and the Black and Tan is one of his favorites. (His altime favorite being the Blood Hound and the Beagle.)
I can see Wesley with the Hound breeds too...he just loves them.
I find the Black and Tans interesting and cute, but they wouldn't be my first pick of a dog. I would own one, but I wouln't go and say, "Hey, I want a B&T Coonhound for my next dog!"
They are wonderful dogs though.

Is Wesley your little brother? My dogs name is Wesley! LOL

[PawNclaws]

Oh yes Labs do shed- mainly its heavy only 2 times a year. Our doggie nap room is full of hair in the spring and in the fall. During thoughs times we brush them 2 times a day. Anytime inbetween we brush them once a day every