Does anyone have a cure for me? I mean me, not my puppy

[itsapitty_notashame]

I have an ailment. I think it is called "tenderheartedformypuppyitis". I mean, she is still young, and is still a baby, but I have began potty training her, and working with her on her mouthiness. My problem is: I don't want to talk mean to her ( I know, I know). I have read on Pit Bull sights ( which is my Tussy's breed) that you are supposed to call them "Jerks" and stuff when they bite too hard, and abandon them for a few moments. I just can't do that. When I yell OUCH, she immediately stops. She is so sweet, and has those puppy eyes. My heart melts. But, I think if I don't resolve this problem, she is going to be running wild, and I don't want that. Has anyone else had this problem? What do I do?!!

[Dogsareme]

Welcome to GP

Ouch is good to say when they bite to hard, but it actually works better if you yelp Like a dog would

And when she does bite way to hard where it really really hurts, walk away. It is normal puppy social conduct. If a litter mate is to rough on another litter mate they will let out a yelp and stop playing. That is how puppies learn what is appropriate

But can I ask why it's mentioned you are suppose to call them 'jerks'? I have never heard that before.

[Carrie]

I think Dogsareme explained it well. I do prefer to allow gentle mouthing as opposed to no mouthing because you teach the dog bite inhibition that way. "OUCH!" (yelp) if there is any pressure, way before it actually hurts, but show her that gentle mouthing when invited is a play thing and OK. The second there's anything close to ouchie, end playtime, walk away for a few minutes and then try again. Be sure she has some good chew toys also. She'll learn as she grows.

[Raised By Wolves]

Having dealt with a few dogs, who's owner used the "yelp and walk away" technique, only to have their pups get more pushy and bitey, be careful with this method. It can backfire with pups of a more "dominant" personality.

It is correct that littermates will yelp and back down if the playing gets too rough. The more submissive pup, will most likely be the one who yelps and backs away the most often, too. The mother dog, who is the "leader" of the pups, does not yelp and back down. But, she does gently let the pup know his behavior is not appropriate with a growl, a look, or a correction with her mouth.

A yelp is not a disciplinary sound. A low tone verbal communication of "hey", (this behavior is not wanted by me), and not giving ground may be helpful if yelping and turning away doesn't give you the desired response.

It kind of depends on the dog.

[linnie]

i suffer the same affliction lol
but i agree with all the above posts.
You can treat any dog with positive reinforcment but remember to have a few words that show you are boss
good luck

[Carrie]

Well, I'm not that much of a softie, but I can tell you that puppies aren't out to take over the pack. LOL. They are out to learn with their mouths by feeling things and by trying to play. They just need to learn that human skin is way to sensative for rough stuff. If you remove yourself, you remove the reinforcement for that rough play.

What does the pupppy like? He likes to play with you. He will learn that rough play equals end of the thing he likes best. Gentle play equals continuing interaction and playtime with you. If you're consistant, learning behavior will prevail.

I don't believe that puppies are out to take over your life or are "dominant." Some have a stronger personality or are more pushy than others, yes. I have a Doberman who has a very pushy personality but it's redirected.

Adult beta dogs will jocky for a higher position within the beta group. Omega dogs are happy just where they are. Alpha dogs don't make a fuss about much of anything, organizing a hunt for large game, breeding and not a whole lot more. Only when an alpha is unable to provide for the others are they challenged but not by mere puppies. Mother dogs correct their pups. Human "moms" can use mental manipulation and employ the laws of learning to pups. Reinforce behavior you like. Don't reinforce behavior you don't like. Remove any payoff for undesireable behavior and provide a preferable alternative for the pup where he can rack up more reinforceable wins to take to the bank. The more successes (which you set him up for), the more a behavior will be repeated. If a behavior does not cause anything good for the dog, it will extinguish after a while. This is behavioral "law." Remove the payoff for his biting hard consistantly. And provide an alternative.

If a dog paws at the refrigerator, for instance, it doesn't cause the door to open so he can get food so he might try it a couple of times but since it doesn't work, most of our dogs don't stand there and paw at the frige door all the time. But pawing at a door to go out makes us open the door. So, that behavior works and the dog learns to repeat that. If biting at your hand hard works to engage you in play, attention, (even bad attention) or any reaction, he'll tend to try again and again unless your attention is very harsh. If that behavior brings him nothing that he likes....nothing at all, it will extinguish. But he'll try for a while because it's worked up to now. It's been reinforced or it wouldn't continue to exist. So he'll try until he finally gives up. It will tend to get worse before it stops. That's when he gives it one last whooplah (extinction burst) and then he'll buckle down and start trying the alternative behavior you've provided for him which DOES bring him something good (better than biting) and worth repeating in order to get.

Does that make sense?

[itsapitty_notashame]

Originally Posted by Dogsareme

Welcome to GP

Ouch is good to say when they bite to hard, but it actually works better if you yelp Like a dog would

And when she does bite way to hard where it really really hurts, walk away. It is normal puppy social conduct. If a litter mate is to rough on another litter mate they will let out a yelp and stop playing. That is how puppies learn what is appropriate

But can I ask why it's mentioned you are suppose to call them 'jerks'? I have never heard that before.

Hi Dogsareme,
I thought I would provide you with an exerpt from an article I read. I simply thought using the word "Jerk" was harsh? Read the paragraph :Inhibiting the force of bites.

The Bite Stops Here
By Dr. Ian Dunbar

Puppies bite, and thank goodness they do. Puppy biting is a normal and natural puppy behavior. In fact, it is the pup that does not mouth and bite much as a youngster that augers ill for the future. Puppy play-biting is the means by which dogs learn to develop bite inhibition, which is absolutely essential later in life.

The combination of weak jaws with extremely sharp, needle-like teeth and the puppy penchant for biting results in numerous play-bites which, although painful, seldom cause serious harm. Thus, the developing pup receives ample necessary feedback regarding the force of its bites before it develops strong jaws – which could inflict considerable injury. The greater the pup’s opportunity to play-bite with people, other dogs and other animals, the better the dog’s bite inhibition as an adult. For puppies that do not grow up with the benefit of regular and frequent interaction with other dogs and other animals, the responsibility of teaching bite inhibition lies with the owner.

Certainly, puppy biting behavior most eventually be eliminated: we cannot have an adult dog playfully mauling family, friends and strangers in the manner of a young puppy. However, it is essential that puppy biting behaviour is gradually and progressively eliminated via a systematic four-step process. With some dogs, it is easy to teach the four phases in sequence. With others, the puppy biting may be so severe that the owners will need to embark on all four stages at once. However, it is essential that the pup first learn to inhibit the force of its bites before the biting behaviour is eliminated altogether.

Inhibiting the force of bites

No painful bites The first item on the agenda is to stop the puppy bruising people. It is not necessary to reprimand the pup and, certainly, physical punishments are contra-indicated, since they tend to make some pups more excited, and insidiously erode the puppy’s temperament and trust in the owner. But it is essential to let the pup know when it hurts. A simple "ouch!" is usually sufficient. The volume of the "ouch" should vary according to the dog’s mental make-up; a fairly soft "ouch" will suffice for sensitive critters, but a loud "OUCH!!!" may be necessary for a wild and woolly creature. During initial training, even shouting may make the pup more excited, as does physical confinement. An extremely effective technique with boisterous pups is to call the puppy a "jerk!" and leave the room and shut the door. Allow the pup time to reflect on the loss of its favourite human chew toy immediately following the hard nip, and then return to make up. It is important to indicate that you still love the pup – it is the painful bites which are objectionable. Instruct the pup to come and sit, and then resume playing. Ideally, the pup should have been taught not to hurt people well before it is three months old.

It is much better for the owner to leave the pup than to try to physically restrain and remove it to a confinement area at a time when it is already out of control. If one pup bites another too hard, the bitee yelps and playing is postponed while the injured party licks its wounds. The biter learns that hard bites curtail an otherwise enjoyable play session. Hence, the bite learns to bite more softly when the play session resumes.

No jaw pressure at all The second stage of training is to eliminate bite pressure entirely, even thought the bites no longer hurt. When the puppy is munching away, wait for a nibble that is harder than the rest and respond as if it really hurt: "Ouch, you worm! Gently! That hurt me you bully!" The dog begins to think "Good Lord! These humans are so mamby pamby I’ll have to be really careful when mouthing their delicate skins." And that’s precisely what we want the dog to think – so he’ll be extremely careful when playing with people. Ideally, the puppy should no longer be exerting any pressure when mouthing by the time it is four to five months old.

Inhibiting the incidence of mouthing

Always stop mouthing when requested: Once the puppy has been taught to gently mouth rather than bite, it is time to reduce the frequency of mouthing behaviour and teach the pup that mouthing is okay until requested to stop. Why? Because it is inconvenient to try to drink a cup of tea, or to answer the telephone, with 50 pounds of pup dangling from your wrist, that’s why.

It is better to first teach the "OFF!" command using a food lure (as demonstrated in the Sirius video*). The deal is this: "If you don’t touch this food treat for just two seconds after I softly say "Off", I will say "Take it" and you can have the treat." Once the pup has mastered this simple task, up the ante to three seconds of non-contact, and then five, eight, 12, 20 and so on. Count out the seconds and praise the dog with each second: "Good dog one, good dog two, good dog three…" and so forth. If the pup touches the treat before being told to take it, shout "Off!" and start the count from zero again. The pup quickly learns that it can not have the treat until it has not touched it for, say, eight seconds – the quickest way to get the treat is not to touch it for the first eight seconds. In addition, the regular handfeeding during this exercise helps preserve the pup’s soft mouth.

Once the pup understnads the "Off!" request, it may be used effectively when the puppy is mouthing. Say "Off!" and praise the pup and give it a treat when it lets go. Remember, the essence of this exercise is to practise stopping the dog from mouthing – each time the pup obediently ceases and desists, resume playing once more. Stop and start the session many times over. Also, since the puppy wants to mouth, the best reward for stopping mouthing is to allow it to mouth again. When you decide to stop the mouthing session altogether, heel the pup to the kitchen and give it an especially tasty treat.

If ever the pup refuses to release your hand when requested, shout "Off!", rapidly extricate your hand and storm out of the room mumbling, "Right. That’s done it, you jerk! You’ve ruined it! Finish! Over! No more!" and shut the door in the dog’s face. Give the pup a couple of minutes on its own and then go back to call the pup to come and sit and make up. But no more mouthing for at least a couple of hours.

[Raised By Wolves]

Originally Posted by itsapitty_notashame

The Bite Stops Here
By Dr. Ian Dunbar

When the puppy is munching away, wait for a nibble that is harder than the rest and respond as if it really hurt: "Ouch, you worm! Gently! That hurt me you bully!" The dog begins to think "Good Lord! These humans are so mamby pamby I’ll have to be really careful when mouthing their delicate skins." And that’s precisely what we want the dog to think – so he’ll be extremely careful when playing with people...

...If ever the pup refuses to release your hand when requested, shout "Off!", rapidly extricate your hand and storm out of the room mumbling, "Right. That’s done it, you jerk! You’ve ruined it! Finish! Over! No more!" and shut the door in the dog’s face.

All human psychology at work in these statements. Nowhere have I ever seen any scientific proof or behavior in dogs that shows me a dog makes the correct connection in his brain for this to make sense.

It makes perfect sense to us. It sounds logical. Written by a very well respected person in the dog world, so it must be true, right?

I don't think so. And, I've seen the results of this "technique" first hand when the dog continually keeps biting this "submissive", emotional human, who keeps "yelping" and running away everytime they bite them.

JMO

[Carrie]

Of course, the puppy doesn't know what those words mean and he probably doesn't understand the complexity of our internal emotional state. But he knows one thing: He's being left sitting there alone with no one to play with and that we are going off to do something else. Littermates will do the same thing...squeel, yelp, grrrrrrr and go off away from the puppy who bit too hard. You don't have to get all emotional about it. But letting him know you're not enjoying this and you're leaving now will be your conditioned response to his hard biting. When he is gentle, you stay and play. He'll catch on.

My Dobe was one rough character when he was a pup. OMG! Let me tell you. He has such a big jaw and big, white teeth. He'd reall chomp down and I'd cuss because it HURT!!!LOL. I'd walk off and go make the bed or do the dishes and leave him to his own. Next time I might show him what I meant by gentle, using a very quiet, boring voice and actually show him. If he bit down, I might say, "ou-ou-ou" weah, weah. He'd look a little bewildered like, "what happened?" LOL. Then he might try again and this time be more gentle.

If he wasn't in the mood for paying attention or learning and was just being wild, I'd flat out, walk off and wait till next time when he was a little quieter. He now can play with my whole hand in his mouth without one iota of pressure. He can stick my little 5LB Chihuahua's whole head in his mouth and mouth on her without any worry from her. If a big, pushy, highly exuberant Doberman puppy can learn to inhibit his bite, I bet just about any dog can.

Punishment, in the way of harsh scoldings doesn't make much sense because at the time the puppy is biting, to him he's just exploring with his mouth and playing. He doesn't think he's doing anything "wrong." But showing him what you mean does teach him.

Mother dogs do scold, but how do we know exactly how? What amount of pressure do they put on the puppy, both physically and emotionally? What signs or forwarnings do they give and at what instance exactly? What tiny nuances do they do with punishment that we can know that we're emulating precisely? Punishment inflicted by humans, if too harsh for the moment, for the particular dog can have serious side effects, such as fear of the owner, distrust. It can also shut down other behaviors which may be happening at the same time. It stops behavior in general and you get a toned down version of a dog.

Of course, a little scolding isn't going to make much effect, but some people tend to get carried away and start using it for everything because it seems to be a short cut. But better learning and a dog who learns to figure things out a little bit comes from teaching them where they're a participant, making the "right" decision, not just a recipient of a situation where they have no choice at all. You're still a leader because you're steering them right into where you want them, but they're helping to get themselves there.

I don't know. If you want a dog who just does everything you say out of avoidance of consequences....a dog who has a toned down personality on account of his tendancy to stop behaving in general, not just the target behavior, then punishment can work. Personally, I want a dog who is spirited, bright, thinking and works with me as he learns something, me guiding and him following my lead, but using his own head too.

In all things, there is a condition and there is a response. You do this and this happens. It doesn't have to be a harsh thing when he bites too hard, but it has to cause the end of something good. A mild scruff and "no" may work, but it's probably not harsh enough. So, you have to get harsher. If you start out mild, the dog can get adapted to that, habituated.... and you have to work up to more severe to have any effect. The puppy builds a calllous to punishement. It's better to start out severe and end it right away. (if you really like doing that to your dog)

I know you want to teach your dog without being "mean" (I think you said) so there are ways to teach where you are providing consequences which are unfavorable without being "mean." LOL.