Rescues - Just how far should privacy go?

[WolfRyder]

I wrote this email earlier in the week and sent it to a few of the people on the forum here. They assured me we did the exact right thing and I wouldn't be flamed for what happened.

My concerns are, some rescues are all for asking a bazillion questions but when it comes to coughing up needed/necessary information to the prospective owners, it's a different story. I'm "quoting" the rest of the post because it was a few days ago.

Sunday one of my daughter's friends came to play. They were going to ride their bicycles outside and the little girl, with my permission and after the dogs had calmed down, came in. She was just standing there, watching the cartoons my daughter was watching while the daughter finished up her lunch. I had told T, more than once, she could be there, and showed him she was okay

T was sniffing, no tension in his body. The little girl was standing still, looking at the tv, away from the dog.

All the sudden, and I was watching so i know this for a fact, T lunges at this child's face!

I grabbed his collar and used my weight to pull him backwards, off of her and got myself between them.

Not a growl, bark, no hackles, no warning whatsoever.

3 hours at the emergency room with this child and her family (I held her face while her mother drove us to the ER) and 6 stitches and the blackest eye (T missed her eyeball by millimeters) later my husband ( who rushed to the hospital as well and saw Michaela's face as well) called the Dobie rescue and told them we couldn't keep the dog, explained what had happened.

They first tried to blame it on us, but I've taken that dog to training, special camp, gotten and read books, tried and worked on everything I could to help him.

The head of the rescue met my husband at the kennel where they keep the dobies until rehoming. My husband wanted to make sure they didn't rehome him where there where children. The rescue lady told us an interesting story. One we didn't get when we were thinking about and finally adopting him.

Seems he's been bounced around, lived a year (not six months) with a couple that the woman hated him (not the husband) and the couple fought all the time. Then 5 months in a kenneling facility (never a foster home) until he was placed in a home with a single mother, her 16 year old daughter and 6 year old son. The 16 year old was in charge while the mother worked.

We have no idea what happened to him, but 4 months later they surrendered him in a huge rush. Then we got him. We were told he didn't like teenagers and loud music, which we found odd, because he hasn't had any trouble with our friends or music volume.

But the dobie rescue president told us she had severe hesitations placing T in the home with the 6 year old boy. Then, they turn around and place him with us? Our daughter is 8! Before we adopted him, I asked them about children. I have grandkids that come visit me. We have neighborhood kids in and my best friend next door and her kids (5 and 3 years) are over often.

I was assured he had no problem with children. I was assured we could work on his problems. He just needed a "firm hand".

The two dogs even had their first "fun" play session Saturday! Schumi was having a great time and they were playing inside! I felt like I was making progress and he was coming along so well.

I'm just sick right now. I love that dog, but I fear what he could do to any of the other children, even my own daughter. That attack was so sneaky! So unexpected. I went over and over in my mind everything and couldn't pinpoint anything that could have triggered this reaction from him.

They're sending him, after 10 day quarentine, to a certified Dobie trainer in Iowa for evaluation. If he is unstable they'll have to put him down.

You know the bad part? I've called and emailed for help from this group and got no replies. I emailed the trainer we had been taking him to for help with his dog agression issues and she would not return my emails. I never could get her to answer her phone and she had no answering machine. During classes, T either had his back to the class or was barking and lunging at the other dogs.

The guilt is killing me. Guilt for the little girl who was bitten and guilt that I didn't do enough for T.

I don't want to say anything on the board for fear of "I told you so's" and stuff. But I don't think a behavioralist would have seen this, as this wasn't the same issue as was between my two dogs. At least I didn't think it was.

Thanks for reading,
Carol aka WolfRyder

Sorry for the long post. As an update, Michaela has been down here for the past 2 days to visit and play. The swelling is gone down a lot and she got her stitches out this afternoon. She still has a black eye, but that looks better as well. We're thankful, as it could have been a lot worse. I could have been gone (I decided not to go to a birthday party I had been invited to) and my daughter would have thought nothing of letting her friend into the house to wait for a few minutes.

[Angel_baby]

First of all, sorry if this gets a bit long but I am peeved to hear about this. I don't think it was your fault at all honestly. When you decided to adopt this dog they never said anything about child aggression which is a big mistake on their part because they could very well be charged with child endangerment for rehoming a child aggresive dog with a home that has children. In my honest opinion it sounds like this rescue is very irrisponsible and something needs to be done about it.

Do you know anyone else who has adopted from them in the past? Have there been any similar incidents in the past? If so then I see a big problem. Things could have been a lot worse and even though the little girl is doing ok it really shouldn't have happened. Ok so this wasn't as long as I thought it would be....my mind is mush right now lol.

[Carrie]

Hi Wolfryder,

As one of your p.m. recipients, I reiterate that this was just horrible and I don't blame (or flame) you one bit for sending the dog back. The rescue is incredibly irresponsible and something should be done about it like Angel baby said. Maybe even something in the newspaper or write your representative? Of course, we don't want rescues shut down. They do a lot of good....usually. But this is not good. Some day they may send out a dog who does more than one bite or one snap. A dog can kill and these rescues need to get more responsible. Or put a dog down who is aggressive.

Sure, I realize that sometimes these things don't show up while the dog is in their care. But, I hear of this so much that it makes me wonder what exactly are they doing to "evaluate" these dogs, how long are they keeping them and under what trials are they testing.

I feel for you. I know you loved the dog. This is really sad but you had no choice and you mustn't feel guilty. You did all you could. I certainly wouldn't keep a dog who had a temperament (whether genetic or not) like that around.

You did all you could to keep your family safe. If the dog gets put down, it's sad, but he won't know anything. He won't know about future or what is happening. He'll be out of whatever it is which is making him this way. I'm so sorry for you.

[WolfRyder]

He went right from the surrenderer home to our home the very next night. An overnight and one day evaluation with the rescue person, in her home, no children, another (female) dobie and an old male mutt.

My husband is going to write to the address where we got the "thank you for your donation" letter. It's from a different state (the rescue serves a 3-state area.)

He plans on addressing this issue with them and asking why the history wasn't given to us right from the beginning, so we could make an informed, intelligent decision.

[Raised By Wolves]

I remember the thread regarding this dog. I remember what was said. I remember it well.

And now, I will never forget it.

I am beyond sorrow, over what happened to this innocent child.

[bigdoglover]

I am so sorry to hear about this. I don't think you are at fault here, and it sounds to me like the rescue/foster folks didn't do a proper evaluation. And the story you heard after the bite, should have been the story you heard in the beginning. Of course, we can say all of the "should have's" now that the incident is over, but that doesn't fix the girl's eye, or her trauma.

I think you are doing the right thing by writing to as many people you can in the organization concerning this dog. Get the word out and maybe they can start re-evaluating their proceedures.

About 2 years ago, a similar incident happened to me, (and Crossfire may remember it) when I went to a Bulldog foster home to adopt a dog that was supposed to LOVE children. He tried to attack my son (who was 5 at the time) and my husband and I both had to intervene. My son is now scared to death of Bullies. But we are working on it.

Anyway, I think, like I said, you are doing the right thing, and you'll have to keep us up to date on how it goes.

[calgal]

You are not at fault here but that rescue should be reported. It is NOT run like any rescue that I know of and I was on 4 rescues and am now only doing one. That rescue shounds like another one that I know that is in it for just the money. They get lots of donations all the time and not much goes back into the dogs. First off ALL rescues should be placed in foster homes while getting any needed medical, training and evaluation. The evaluation is so important in finding out the personalities and any problem areas. Find out who issued that presidents permit and then start reporting these things so it can be investigated.
I hope the little girl wont be so traumatized by this that she is afraid of all dogs. Keep us updated.

[WolfRyder]

Originally Posted by Raised By Wolves

I remember the thread regarding this dog. I remember what was said. I remember it well.

And now, I will never forget it.

I am beyond sorrow, over what happened to this innocent child.

I will never forget either, RBW. Not Ever.

A combination of our inexperience and behavioral issues with the dog, that neither the trainer who had worked with the dog before his coming to us nor the rescue organization would not talk about, I think, contributed to this situation. She was our trainer too.

And instead of telling me what he had been through, she would give me suggestions such as putting a spray collar on him to make him stop lunging and barking. They all knew, the rescue, the trainer. All. Yet no one told us anything except it was the previous owner's fault.

[mulroony]

WolfRyder - Sorry to hear that this happend. Stories like this is the reason so many people refuse to get a dog from a rescue. Sadly it is not always possible to find out what exactly might be wrong w/ a dog, or what might trigger them.

However in your case it sounds like neglect on the part of the rescue. When I got Shelby from my local shelter they never told me she had a thing against men. Seeing how I lived in a house w/ a bunch of other guys (20+ of them) at the time it was a big deal and took months of work to shake her of it. Luckily they are understanding (w/ one exception) and she never hurt anyone (not that we gave her much slack to do anything, not blaming you, b/c we had some close calls ourself).

I would try to get in contact w/ the local doberman community and raise your concerns. Many people go to these clubs to locate rescues and if they can give them a heads up before passing them on it would be a good thing.

Sorry to hear that this happened and hope the child is doing well.

[linnie]

what an aweful experience for you to have to go through.
i think the rescue people were so totally in the wrong.
And that poor dog as well how sad for him

I can see know where that the blame could be laid at your feet, it is totally the people who evaluated the dog who are to blame for this terrible outcome

[mrsgrubby]

I am so sorry!!!! You have worked so hard to get T straightened out!!! I agree, information was withheld from you for some reason, either on purpose, or by accident due to volunteers running the rescue.

Either way, I am so sorry.