So Upset

[Dogsareme]

Today we had a person over that Kaede has never met. And he was doing great as he has been doing for sometime now. He's on a program. I still try and do control management as much as possible though. Just incase, you don't want to get to sure.
Anywho, I went to the bathroom and figured my boyfriend knew what to avoid because of all the times I have mentioned things and talked to him about them. Well stupid him went into the kitchen and let this person go near Kaede while he was in a corner, but that was okay, no big deal nothing happen right then. Well then he let this person LEAN OVER KAEDE WHILE HE WAS IN A CORNER to reach the sink. Two BIG mistakes. I came around the corner just in time to see Kaede freak. He nipped, (not bit) and ran. Then my boyfriend grabbed Kaede as he was running and slammed him hard into the wall and yelled at him!! So I shoved him away from Kaede, grabbed Kaede, placed him in his kennel and let my boyfriend have it. He knew what to allow and what not to allow!!! He should of been watching him better. Just because he has been doing good he figured he could go that far! But he knows my rules about punishment, and by no means is slamming him into a wall and yelling at him appropriate. I am so upset right now, I don't know if I should cry or scream or what!
I'm worried that this will of undone alot of the work I've already done with Kaede!!
I'd really like to slam him into a wall the next time he gets freaked out from something and see how much better that makes him feel.

[RIo&Nickysmommy]

Hi! I would be angry also. As for your boyfriend I wont go their. You expressed my thoughts ome what on that. it was a reaction your boyfriend had out of anger but since you have a slightly problem child on your hand your doggie- boyfirned needs to check himself. I am no way an expert on training dogs but- when people are in the house I manage the dogs. Hubby can also be clueless thinking everything is fine. Mind you my dogs are pretty good guys but when Mommy goes to the little girls room its a crowd when companies over. I think when people are in your house they should be able to move around though- otherwise I would have pup in a safe place kennel or another room. My Cocker - Rio hates a man we rent to and I always hold make sure I have him under control the entire time this man is around. I wish you luck with all this , hope who ever is giving you guidance on the training methods can give you more. Give Kaede a hug from me and give boyfriend a wack in the head from me too.
RIo&Nickysmommy

[ewarp]

When I leave the dogs with my boyfriend, he's under strict instructions in regards to Hippo. He knows flat out that I would rather have Hippo crated all day than being mishandled, even accidentally. While he's slowly learning to manage her behavior, I still have him crate her if he has friends over while I'm away. It's for the guests' safety (she's just unruly and can get some height when she jumps), and Hippo's and his sanity.

That said, he knows that if he dares raise a hand to the dogs, they and I will both be gone. If he can't control his emotions around the dogs, I don't want to know how much I need to anger him to get the same response.

[D.Schäferhund]

oh my, I would be freaking.....

I know you are worried now, too. that really could have destroyed some work....
put the dog up or take it with you....
and , well we all know teaching a human new behaviours is harder then teaching dogs.
My husband was raised with the "tough" dogtraining methods, but I am so glad he understands what i am doing and tries to stick to it.
Some things he even says he just does not want to deal with, because he does not have the paitcance, like potty training or other basic things, on the other hand he is doing great at obedience, he even can really praise a dog out of his heart, and he is geting really good at making all them high pitch noises the dogs need.

Mayba you should put your boyfriend in a program, too *g*

[britishbandit]

Oh I'd be angry too if I were you. I don't use physical punishment on my dogs, so I'll be............if someone else is going to.
I've never had a problem with a bf doing it but have with my brother. He rents my basement, and his entrance is just inside the gate at the side of the house. I'd told him time and time again, if the dogs are out, knock and I'll let him in/out through the front door, or bring the dogs in......but that is sometimes too much effort for him. The dogs only get excited to see him, and PJ likes to share some of his drool on my brothers pant leg. Well the one day I was on my way downstairs to do laundry, and as I opened the door, my brother had just went out the side, and through the screen door, I saw my brother PUNCH PJ in the head, for coming to greet him. PJ yelped and ran away.
I have no tolerance for that at all. And my brother got fair warning, that if he ever hit any one of the dogs again, he better have planned ahead and packed his bags. Simple as that. I am doing my brother a favour by letting him stay here, and although he has 4 years on me, I do expect to have his respect on my "rules", which are few to say the least, and most are in regards to the dogs.

[Carrie]

I'd dump that boyfriend in a heart beat. Down the road, he wouldn't be above slamming you into a wall. If a person can't control themselves with an innocent animal, they don't stop there.

Don't let Kaede out of your sight again. You'll need to slowly re-condition him to people and situations like that...associate it with a happy time, not a scary one. You could set up little practices where you lean over him that way and reach for a yummy treat. Show him that that position isn't always such a bad thing. That is normally, as you indicated that you were aware, a confrontational body positioning. But you can counter condition him to it over time. Also, just more socializing in contexts which are more comfortable to him.

I'm so sorry this happened. Please get rid of that guy. You don't need that in your life. It won't be the last time, I assure you.

[dogsouth]

Originally Posted by Carrie

I'd dump that boyfriend in a heart beat. Down the road, he wouldn't be above slamming you into a wall. If a person can't control themselves with an innocent animal, they don't stop there.

What she said. Abuse can easily jump from the animal kind to the human kind.

I don't even know him and I want to wring his neck

[sammy]

Wow, that's awful and unfortunate.
Sometimes people who have grown up with harsh physical punishments for animals "get it" in theory when you explain your philosophy and how you want to manage things but in the heat of the moment they fall back on what they used to do.
Violence begets violence. I remember when I was working as a nurse and a crazed patient hurt me- the details of the incident are blurry now, I can't remember if she hit me or punched me or what , but it came right out of the blue. I remember being absolutely shocked at my own reaction. My first reaction was to want to shove her and she was a sick patient who for whatever reason was totally out of her mind! Obviously I didn't but I'm just making the point. I'm not sure we are in a place to judge your boyfriend- although you should maybe do some soul searching. I'm not trying to give him an excuse I'm just making the point. I don't believe in physical punishment. I have never hit or hurt anyone, but when I was hit my instinct was to hit back and I think that can be the case with a dog bite too. It shocks us and we don't think , we just react.

As for significant others and dog training that's another tough one. *You* know how you want things handled, you have spent the last weeks reading books on training and behavior etc. Your bf hasn't.You give him all kinds of instructions but it's not the same. He is going to make some mistakes. It's up to you to manage that. I don't think it's fair to him or the dog to leave him to deal with a situation that might threaten your dog. If you can't supervise it , your dog should be outside, in an ex-pen, in a crate , somewhere away from your guest where he can't get into that kind of situation.
I hope this doesn't come across sounding harsh. I have total empathy for your situation but you are responsible for that dog. You need to ensure he doesn't have set backs and be responsible for preventing it.

[Carrie]

I have never hit or hurt anyone, but when I was hit my instinct was to hit back and I think that can be the case with a dog bite too. It shocks us and we don't think , we just react.

How true. It is an instinct to fight back to defend ourselves. But somewhere along the line, some kind of self control needs to kick in and does with most of us. Hitting, slapping, yelling... is one thing, but slamming a puppy against a wall could cause a head injury and kill it. Somewhere there needs to be a little light that goes on and draws a line between self defense, a mild retaliation, whatever.....and out of control assault.

I agree that from now on, put the puppy away in any like situation if you can't be right there.

Hopefully, your pup will get past this with lots of pleasant experiences to replace the bad one.

[IceyBlueSibes]

Wow, that's a really unfortunate thing! I would have been SO mad at my boyfriend if he did that!

Thankfully, I'm the one that corrects or handles a situation involving the dogs. My boyfriend will always call me from the other room if one of the dogs is doing something they shouldn't, or if they get into a scuffle over a bone. He respects and understands how to correct the dogs in the house. He has never, ever, hurt any of the dogs in the house and would never think of it. He's become extremely attached to Kelso, and would probably kill anyone who laid a hand on that dog. We also have people living with us that "aren't all there". They have slowly learned that our dogs lived here first, they are allowed to do certain things that many would feel is unacceptable (rough housing in the house, howling and making all kinds of noise, what "people food" they're allowed/not allowed to have), and especially with "shoving" them off of the couch. They sleep on the couch, and the dogs are so accustomed to being up there. As soon as the dogs tried to climb up, they'd shove them down... and when we told them they don't need to SHOVE them, they then proceed to try and call them back up. We had to explain that it's only confusing the dogs, and it doesn't do any good to call them back up and try to be "Mr. Nice guy" afterwards.

I agree with Sammy as far as your boyfriend. I think you need to do a lot of thinking about this guy. But if it were me, I would certainly not be seeing this guy ever again.

I hope Kaede is okay. Best of luck in his training and I hope you can make a good decision!

ETA: Carrie, you posted before I was finished with mine. But you make a good point that self control should kick in at some time.

You've recieved a lot of great advice dogsareme. Best of luck.

[sammy]

Originally Posted by Carrie

Hitting, slapping, yelling... is one thing, but slamming a puppy against a wall could cause a head injury and kill it.

That's true. I was reading quickly this morning. I was thinking hit/slap/shove not throw against a wall. Not a very nice situation.

[Raised By Wolves]

Your boyfriend attacked your dog, period.

There is no way for your dog to percieve this any other way. Sad.

Since you are working on becoming a trainer, you are unfortunately also learning about the hardest part of training dogs, the human element.

Being a good Pack Leader is also about protecting your followers and dealing firmly and directly with the ignorant. Educate where you can, and let the brutes know in no uncertain terms "This behavior will not be tolerated".

My dog was so terrified of people when I got her that I had to ask a friend of mine to leave my home because he was cornering her to give her "love". What he almost got was a nice "fear bite" in the face. He was asked to leave for the good of my dog, and to save his pretty little face.

I'd dump the guy and find someone who deserves to be with you, respects your decisions, and doesn't already need a buttload of anger management classes.

I'm sorry this happened, whether or not it happens again is ultimately up to you.

[Dogsareme]

From now on if someone is in the house I will be taking Kaede with me. I learned that lesson. He was doing so great having people around, and I was not allowing people to get that close to him, unless he walked up to them to ask for petting.*sigh*
Kaede is actually fine if we are near him in a corner, or if we lean over him.I can even grab a juicy steak out of his mouth if I wanted to. He never freaks or gets upset. I can honestly do anything to him, and once he trusts the person they can to, just not strangers.
I did contact my mentor trainer about this. I do know what should be done next on the program, but I'm worried because he is my own dog that I might over look something, or not think it neccessary. It's always nice to have a second pair of eyes for your own problem dog.

My boyfriend was also raised with the harsh dog training methods and they used alot of hitting and yelling. He really has been doing good with our dogs. He just lost it when Kaede nipped his friend, it was just a reaction. I've been with him for over 5 years, so I know there is no way he would ever go and hit me or another person. We've had fights before (of course what couple doesn't) and he's never shown any violence towards me, in fact he has never even yelled at me before, honest, he's pretty good at keeping his temper in tact. I can't say so much for myself, because I am a yeller when I get mad....

But now I have another problem. He doesn't understand the difference between biting and nipping. I tried to explain to him that nipping is a fear response to say "go away". And that he was nice enough to actually give that response and not a full on bite (though I did not mention that). He is worried Kaede is going to attack someone now, and wants to put him down. I don't know how to explain to him that this is just a set back.

[sammy]

Just out of curiosity is Kaede one of the dogs in your avatar? How old and what breed is Kaede?

[Raised By Wolves]

I will give you some of what I have found useful in training the humans and helping the dog feel at ease.

Pack Leader Pointers ():

Start from the dog's perspective. *They* read humans in "dog" because they were born with this language. They try to make sense of us the only way they know how.

A dog will be watching you. IMO, dogs do not seek to lead us unless they happen to have been born with a more dominant by nature personality, or we don't provide leadership and they end up trying to lead by default. Someone has to be in charge in order to procede as a group, even if it's only two beings working together.

When a strange human enters the picture, if that human and you exchange a calm, friendly greeting while ignoring the dog, the dog sees two Pack Leaders joining up. Followers naturally watch the leaders to see what's up, who is okay, and what are we going to do next.

If you put any focus on the dog, you can confuse it. Just by putting the dog in a focal point, you communicate a question of "what's next?" as if you are a follower. Dog's don't greet like humans. They don't understand the sympathetic need to make another comfortable with high pitched noises and direct contact.

It's also confusing to the dog when you home in on it, stare, grin with bared teeth, and talk in a high pitched tone - which can sound to a dog like stress, anxiety, and nervousness in "dogese".

And, that outstretch hand can seem threatening, whether it's holding a cookie or not.

Ignoring the dog (CM = no touch/no talk/no eye contact) is something you could practice with a friend who doesn't know the dog well. Try some staged exercises and see how it goes.

Your friend should completely ignore your dog and only focus on a friendly conversation with you. And, no use of treats during this exercise. You and your friend should have a casual conversation and then take the dog for a walk together.

The goal is to learn to train people and help your dog feel at ease around strangers because you make the decisions on how these strangers interact with your dog. The dog then feels safe in your presense and decision making, and the strangers have learned a good Pack Leader's lesson of how they may interact with a strange dog.

I hope you find this information useful. It's part of what I teach dog owners.