Kicked the dog

GSD · 07-19-2006, 08:31 AM

Well I kicked a dog last night, even dropped the F-bomb on it.

I was out for a walk, a training walk, tug toys stuffed in my pants and balls hanging from my neck. I know that sounds bad, but so much of what trainers do sound really weird to "normal" people. We work on heeling, focus, left and rigth turns, stops sit in motion, down in motion, with cars and people driving and walking by. Its great to get off the training field and out of my yard.

Well I had just done a stop with attention and rewarded my dog in front of this house, and was letting her carry her reward for a little while when I hear this dog barking and I turned to see it tearing after us, totally locked onto my dog.

I steped between my dog and the border collie mix looking dog and yelled for it to go home. The dog didn't even acknowledge me with eye contact, but did change his path to run around me, then took a bite at my dogs butt and did get her.

In the meantime, i'm trying to swing around to get between them again, all the while trying to keep my dog from tearing this dog apart. I did an effective job of keeping between them except for that one bite, and finally squared up and sent the dog flying. He stopped started to come back and I charged him and he took off back to the house he came from.

When I charged him the last time I think when I told him to get the "freak" out of here, he understood english and decided to leave. I don't know if the owners were mad at me for kicking their dog or what. Maybe I shouldn't have, but this dog had no intentions of being nice. They were probably wondering why I was protecting my big dog from theirs, but I didn't really want to see what my dog would have done to theirs.

I was pissed, i had spent a long time working on that dog aggression stuff with her, and was to a point where being around other dogs wasn't a big deal, and now this happens. I'm sure it undid everything i've done over the past year. Oh well, back to square one I guess.

calgal · 07-19-2006, 08:51 AM

I would have done the same thing. Better the dog gets a swift kick in the butt rather than get torn to shreds by your dog. Heck with what the owners thought. Heck, they are in the wrong by having that dog off leash anyway. They were lucky that dog didn't bite you or you would own a new home.

PawNclaws · 07-19-2006, 09:07 AM

I agree with Calgal, I would of done the same. I would care less if they were mad, their dog tryed to bite you and attacked your dog.. I would of been PO'd too . Some people, geewiz, how stupid are they anyhow, letting a dog like that off a leash..Ugh

richnrissa · 07-19-2006, 09:15 AM

If you had come here to say you kicked a dog out of boredom, as a training tool, or because it chewed your milna biloniks (sp?) you left on the living room floor, we'd all think different.
THIS WAS A DEFENSIVE ACT! I agree w/ all, better to have stopped that whole scene right there then wait for the worse ending!!!!!!!

britishbandit · 07-19-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richnrissa

If you had come here to say you kicked a dog out of boredom, as a training tool, or because it chewed your milna biloniks (sp?) you left on the living room floor, we'd all think different.
THIS WAS A DEFENSIVE ACT! I agree w/ all, better to have stopped that whole scene right there then wait for the worse ending!!!!!!!

Agreed!!! Sorry this all happened, what a set back.

Shelties · 07-19-2006, 09:54 AM

I would have done a same thing....I probably have used the mase to stop that dog ( as cruel that sounds) but you gotta do what you gotta do to protect yourself AND your Dog.....

Raised By Wolves · 07-19-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSD

I was pissed, i had spent a long time working on that dog aggression stuff with her, and was to a point where being around other dogs wasn't a big deal, and now this happens. I'm sure it undid everything i've done over the past year. Oh well, back to square one I guess.

Not necessarily, you handled a bad situation and your dog didn't have to. If you leave it behind and move on, chances are so will your dog. If you anticipate a problem the next time you encounter a dog, that's where it can slow the wonderful progress you have made.

Some dogs simply don't see humans as beings to be respected at all. This is the owner's fault. Too bad the owner didn't get to "feel" the results of their irresponsibility. Not much else you could have done.

I don't run into these dogs too often, but they are the worse to deal with because they are homed in on your dog, and it's like you don't even exist.

Carry on my friend. You guys will get past this.

GSD · 07-19-2006, 11:21 AM

she was trying to handle it though, I had to keep pressure upwards on her leash to keep her from getting the other dog, which i'm sure wasn't pleasurable for her. But it all happened so fast I hardly remember it, just thinking don't let my dog get bit and don't let my dog get a hold of the other one. It probably would've been the last time that dog tore after another dog. One thing I did like was as soon as the dog ran off she instantly brought her focus back to me and I gave her a quick fuss command and two steps heeling and played tug again like nothing ever happened.

She had some serious run ins before though. The woman that had her before had a female Mal as well both working dogs and they got along for the most part, but did have a moment or two that were not pretty. both animals had put their teeth thru the others front leg at one point. So there are some pretty significant things that happened with other dogs in her past. Since I think some of those BIG events happened fairly early, they seem to be the foundation for her learning experiences with other dogs and that seems to want to bubble to the surface at times. We're heading up to my friends this weekend so she'll have some good experiences with other dogs again, and we'll just keep moving forward.

Raised By Wolves · 07-19-2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSD

she was trying to handle it though, I had to keep pressure upwards on her leash to keep her from getting the other dog, which i'm sure wasn't pleasurable for her. But it all happened so fast I hardly remember it, just thinking don't let my dog get bit and don't let my dog get a hold of the other one. It probably would've been the last time that dog tore after another dog. One thing I did like was as soon as the dog ran off she instantly brought her focus back to me and I gave her a quick fuss command and two steps heeling and played tug again like nothing ever happened.

She had some serious run ins before though. The woman that had her before had a female Mal as well both working dogs and they got along for the most part, but did have a moment or two that were not pretty. both animals had put their teeth thru the others front leg at one point. So there are some pretty significant things that happened with other dogs in her past. Since I think some of those BIG events happened fairly early, they seem to be the foundation for her learning experiences with other dogs and that seems to want to bubble to the surface at times. We're heading up to my friends this weekend so she'll have some good experiences with other dogs again, and we'll just keep moving forward.

Sorry this happened, but I think you handled things the best way you could. That other dog was lucky she didn't get hold of him. I'm glad you are both going to spend some time building on some good dog experiences this weekend.

I've had a few instances where my dog has had setbacks because of the behavior of a few people. She had a pretty bad start in life, but she does seem to get over things more quickly now.

sammy · 07-19-2006, 12:20 PM

I hate it when stuff like that happens.

It's extra scary when it's a loose dog. Where the heck were the owners?

Sounds like you handled the situation as best you could. I think it would have been worse for both dogs if it had become a real dog fight. Like RBW said, you defended and protected your dog which is your job as leader. Hopefully she will be confident that she can leave that to you and not worry.

I had a large dog pin Rosie to the ground by her neck recently.She was just minding her won business retrieving her ball. I yelled "KNOCK IT OFF!" in the most booming voice I could as I ran to them. The dog didn't move as I approached and I had to hit her on the side with my chuckit ball thrower stick three times before she got off. I suspect by the third smack I was hitting pretty hard- my adrenaline was pumping. She stood up and trotted away as if nothing happened. Rosie seemed to get over it quickly and it hasn't affected her interactions with other dogs since. I hope your dog can shake it off too.

I hope you are able to speak to the owners. They need to know that their dog is getting out. That's not a safe situtation. I'd be tempted to give them a kick in the butt too

Ritz459 · 07-19-2006, 12:41 PM

I just have to say that you handled it very well and I hope that this doesn't destroy the training you've done with her.

I had a situation like that happen to me eariler...my twin brother and sister (age 11) was helping me walk Blackie, Rose, and Sadie all at once. I had Sadie (the pain pup), Wesley had Blackie (good, but strong dog), and JeanAnne had Rose (timid, not so strong, and fairly well behaved).
Well, we were walking by a neighbor's house and their Chow came out to see us. It wasn't acting aggressive, just dominant. It had never come out before and the neighbors are fairly new, so I knew nothing about this dog.
Well, JeanAnne freaked out and took Rose into the weeds along the side of the road. Blackie has dog aggression issues that we were starting to over come, so Wesley was freaking out. (And it didn't help any that Blackie outweighs Wesley by about 20lbs and he could sense that his kids were scared and worried, so he not only went into dog-eat-dog mode but "you come closer and scare my kids I will eat you alive" mode.) So I was trying to control Sadie (who has happy to see the strange doggy) and Blackie. I was also worried that Blackie might decide that Sadie would be better prey then the Chow and turn on her, since he doesn't like her either.
All was ok until the Chow came over to me, Blackie, and Sadie. Then the dog, out of nowhere, just tries to attack Sadie! (Blackie didn't like that either.) Sadie was confused and scared, so she tucked her tail between her legs and went to hide by Blackie, so I yelled at my brother to take Sadie's leash, and then I took Blackie and his lead and I yelled at the dog to back off. It didn't listen, of course, so I grabbed Blackie by the collar and used the extra leash to hit the dog with. (And it was a leather leash and I was ticked so I'm sure it hurt.) That got the dog to back off and then everything was fine. So as we were walking away I told Blackie to heel, which he did, and I was praising him for not looking at the dog going back up to its house, and I told Wesley to praise Sadie like no other so she wouldn't think anything of getting attacked. Rose was fine, silly dog.

It is very frusterating to have your dog attacked by an offleash dog, especially when your dog is getting over agression problems. Hopefully the dog has learned, and hopefully your training hasn't undone itself!

IceyBlueSibes · 07-19-2006, 02:03 PM

I agree with everyone here. You were only defending your dog -- you actually did the other dog a huge favor.

I've had run-ins with a couple aggressive dogs.

This lady that lives down the street, has some type of hound mix... well he was outside, off-leash, and he spotted Sheiba and Denali and came charging at them. I didn't notice until the last minute, and I turn around to see this dog, teeth showing and growling. Sheiba and Denali had him pinned to the ground in a second. Thankfully they were not being extremely physical with him, but they were using their mouths to hold him down and growling like "DON'T try it! Go away!" And the dog got up, and tried to go after them again. Meanwhile, I'm trying to hold them back, but when two huskies are on their harnesses with a dog attacking them, it's not very easy to hold them back. Denali is not a dog to take lip from another... she's very friendly but I can never trust her NOT to fight if she gets the chance. The owner finally rushes over and calls Buddy (her dog) away. She asked if I was okay and I told her I was fine, but she should check her dog. There were other times this happened as well... thanks to her, Sheiba doesn't tolerate strange dogs much anymore. She's very touchy with them around, and if another dog approaches her she voices her opinion before it gets close.

There also used to be another hound mix dog that would constantly escape. His owner would leave him outside while she was gone at work.

He knew how to open his gate, and he charged Sheiba and Denali, as well as Sarge before. Thankfully Sheiba and Denali were able to ward him off just by their howling and jumping at the leash. Sarge certainly didn't want any nonsense and his posture and stare was enough to scare off any dog. He didn't even think to come close... but I had to stomp at the dog and tell him "Get!" and he went away. He ended up biting this elderly lady and her old cockerspaniel. She was so afraid to walk her dogs at night, she ended up carrying a big stick with her incase the dog ever got out again.

I've never had to physically remove a dog from mine. Although I would do anything to get a dog off of mine, even if it meant me getting bit in order to protect them.

D.Schäferhund · 07-19-2006, 04:09 PM

Well
I agree, better the dog got kicked then tore up.

The dog had no business to do that, but that kick was better then both dogs or maybe you really got hurt.

I understand your anger and your fear that all the training is gone...

i know how it is to have "speeding mop on the curtain rod"
they never really stay put, and i can imagine you had your hands full, just holding her back and away from the other dog.
But I belive you do a solid training and put put quite a bit of work in her, so it may be just a little setback, and maybe after one or two times you are back on track, and maybe she associated it just with that dog and not with dogs in general.

I know how frustrating that is, but keep up the good work, I am sure it will pay off.

flyndog · 07-19-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSD

... tug toys stuffed in my pants and balls hanging from my neck. I know that sounds bad, but so much of what trainers do sound really weird to "normal" people...

Well, you had to protect your dog.

Beryl · 07-19-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammy

I hate it when stuff like that happens.

It's extra scary when it's a loose dog. Where the heck were the owners?

That's what I'm talking about! Unless something unexpected happened and he got out, it really bugs me that this dog's owner was no where to be found.

They probably neglect their children too.

07-19-2006, 08:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
GSD Herding dogs Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: WI Posts: 1,093 Rep Power: 133	Kicked the dog Well I kicked a dog last night, even dropped the F-bomb on it. I was out for a walk, a training walk, tug toys stuffed in my pants and balls hanging from my neck. I know that sounds bad, but so much of what trainers do sound really weird to "normal" people. We work on heeling, focus, left and rigth turns, stops sit in motion, down in motion, with cars and people driving and walking by. Its great to get off the training field and out of my yard. Well I had just done a stop with attention and rewarded my dog in front of this house, and was letting her carry her reward for a little while when I hear this dog barking and I turned to see it tearing after us, totally locked onto my dog. I steped between my dog and the border collie mix looking dog and yelled for it to go home. The dog didn't even acknowledge me with eye contact, but did change his path to run around me, then took a bite at my dogs butt and did get her. In the meantime, i'm trying to swing around to get between them again, all the while trying to keep my dog from tearing this dog apart. I did an effective job of keeping between them except for that one bite, and finally squared up and sent the dog flying. He stopped started to come back and I charged him and he took off back to the house he came from. When I charged him the last time I think when I told him to get the "freak" out of here, he understood english and decided to leave. I don't know if the owners were mad at me for kicking their dog or what. Maybe I shouldn't have, but this dog had no intentions of being nice. They were probably wondering why I was protecting my big dog from theirs, but I didn't really want to see what my dog would have done to theirs. I was pissed, i had spent a long time working on that dog aggression stuff with her, and was to a point where being around other dogs wasn't a big deal, and now this happens. I'm sure it undid everything i've done over the past year. Oh well, back to square one I guess.

07-19-2006, 09:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
PawNclaws Labrador Crazy Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North West Posts: 1,890 Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 107	I agree with Calgal, I would of done the same. I would care less if they were mad, their dog tryed to bite you and attacked your dog.. I would of been PO'd too . Some people, geewiz, how stupid are they anyhow, letting a dog like that off a leash..Ugh
	__________________

07-19-2006, 09:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
richnrissa Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: WA Posts: 862 Rep Power: 80	If you had come here to say you kicked a dog out of boredom, as a training tool, or because it chewed your milna biloniks (sp?) you left on the living room floor, we'd all think different. THIS WAS A DEFENSIVE ACT! I agree w/ all, better to have stopped that whole scene right there then wait for the worse ending!!!!!!!
	__________________ If you cannot be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning- Catherine Aird

07-19-2006, 12:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ritz459 Fuzzbutt attack Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,259 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 215	I just have to say that you handled it very well and I hope that this doesn't destroy the training you've done with her. I had a situation like that happen to me eariler...my twin brother and sister (age 11) was helping me walk Blackie, Rose, and Sadie all at once. I had Sadie (the pain pup), Wesley had Blackie (good, but strong dog), and JeanAnne had Rose (timid, not so strong, and fairly well behaved). Well, we were walking by a neighbor's house and their Chow came out to see us. It wasn't acting aggressive, just dominant. It had never come out before and the neighbors are fairly new, so I knew nothing about this dog. Well, JeanAnne freaked out and took Rose into the weeds along the side of the road. Blackie has dog aggression issues that we were starting to over come, so Wesley was freaking out. (And it didn't help any that Blackie outweighs Wesley by about 20lbs and he could sense that his kids were scared and worried, so he not only went into dog-eat-dog mode but "you come closer and scare my kids I will eat you alive" mode.) So I was trying to control Sadie (who has happy to see the strange doggy) and Blackie. I was also worried that Blackie might decide that Sadie would be better prey then the Chow and turn on her, since he doesn't like her either. All was ok until the Chow came over to me, Blackie, and Sadie. Then the dog, out of nowhere, just tries to attack Sadie! (Blackie didn't like that either.) Sadie was confused and scared, so she tucked her tail between her legs and went to hide by Blackie, so I yelled at my brother to take Sadie's leash, and then I took Blackie and his lead and I yelled at the dog to back off. It didn't listen, of course, so I grabbed Blackie by the collar and used the extra leash to hit the dog with. (And it was a leather leash and I was ticked so I'm sure it hurt.) That got the dog to back off and then everything was fine. So as we were walking away I told Blackie to heel, which he did, and I was praising him for not looking at the dog going back up to its house, and I told Wesley to praise Sadie like no other so she wouldn't think anything of getting attacked. Rose was fine, silly dog. It is very frusterating to have your dog attacked by an offleash dog, especially when your dog is getting over agression problems. Hopefully the dog has learned, and hopefully your training hasn't undone itself!
	__________________ ~Blackie, Rose, Chloe (dogs), Pheobe (cat), Casey, Dameon (ferrets), Joey ('Tiel), Dot, Louie (cavies), Pickachu (hamster), Rush (R.I.P. 15yrs), Lucy (R.I.P. 4yrs)~

07-19-2006, 02:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
IceyBlueSibes Eyes = Mirror to the soul Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jupiter, Fla. Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 263	I agree with everyone here. You were only defending your dog -- you actually did the other dog a huge favor. I've had run-ins with a couple aggressive dogs. This lady that lives down the street, has some type of hound mix... well he was outside, off-leash, and he spotted Sheiba and Denali and came charging at them. I didn't notice until the last minute, and I turn around to see this dog, teeth showing and growling. Sheiba and Denali had him pinned to the ground in a second. Thankfully they were not being extremely physical with him, but they were using their mouths to hold him down and growling like "DON'T try it! Go away!" And the dog got up, and tried to go after them again. Meanwhile, I'm trying to hold them back, but when two huskies are on their harnesses with a dog attacking them, it's not very easy to hold them back. Denali is not a dog to take lip from another... she's very friendly but I can never trust her NOT to fight if she gets the chance. The owner finally rushes over and calls Buddy (her dog) away. She asked if I was okay and I told her I was fine, but she should check her dog. There were other times this happened as well... thanks to her, Sheiba doesn't tolerate strange dogs much anymore. She's very touchy with them around, and if another dog approaches her she voices her opinion before it gets close. There also used to be another hound mix dog that would constantly escape. His owner would leave him outside while she was gone at work. He knew how to open his gate, and he charged Sheiba and Denali, as well as Sarge before. Thankfully Sheiba and Denali were able to ward him off just by their howling and jumping at the leash. Sarge certainly didn't want any nonsense and his posture and stare was enough to scare off any dog. He didn't even think to come close... but I had to stomp at the dog and tell him "Get!" and he went away. He ended up biting this elderly lady and her old cockerspaniel. She was so afraid to walk her dogs at night, she ended up carrying a big stick with her incase the dog ever got out again. I've never had to physically remove a dog from mine. Although I would do anything to get a dog off of mine, even if it meant me getting bit in order to protect them.
	__________________ Sheiba, Denali, Ike, Nitro (Siberian Husky), Kelso (GSD x), Lugar (Boxer/Pit x), Willah (Shepherd/Husky x), Tibby, Cheech, Chong (Chihuahua), and any foster we have in the house! 9 Kitty cats!

07-19-2006, 08:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
calgal My Yorkster kids! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: central ca. coast Posts: 6,609 Rep Power: 222	I would have done the same thing. Better the dog gets a swift kick in the butt rather than get torn to shreds by your dog. Heck with what the owners thought. Heck, they are in the wrong by having that dog off leash anyway. They were lucky that dog didn't bite you or you would own a new home.

07-19-2006, 09:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Shelties Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 336 Rep Power: 59	I would have done a same thing....I probably have used the mase to stop that dog ( as cruel that sounds) but you gotta do what you gotta do to protect yourself AND your Dog.....

07-19-2006, 11:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
GSD Herding dogs Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: WI Posts: 1,093 Rep Power: 133	she was trying to handle it though, I had to keep pressure upwards on her leash to keep her from getting the other dog, which i'm sure wasn't pleasurable for her. But it all happened so fast I hardly remember it, just thinking don't let my dog get bit and don't let my dog get a hold of the other one. It probably would've been the last time that dog tore after another dog. One thing I did like was as soon as the dog ran off she instantly brought her focus back to me and I gave her a quick fuss command and two steps heeling and played tug again like nothing ever happened. She had some serious run ins before though. The woman that had her before had a female Mal as well both working dogs and they got along for the most part, but did have a moment or two that were not pretty. both animals had put their teeth thru the others front leg at one point. So there are some pretty significant things that happened with other dogs in her past. Since I think some of those BIG events happened fairly early, they seem to be the foundation for her learning experiences with other dogs and that seems to want to bubble to the surface at times. We're heading up to my friends this weekend so she'll have some good experiences with other dogs again, and we'll just keep moving forward.

07-19-2006, 12:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
sammy herding dog lover Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: western canada Posts: 1,089 Rep Power: 109	I hate it when stuff like that happens. It's extra scary when it's a loose dog. Where the heck were the owners? Sounds like you handled the situation as best you could. I think it would have been worse for both dogs if it had become a real dog fight. Like RBW said, you defended and protected your dog which is your job as leader. Hopefully she will be confident that she can leave that to you and not worry. I had a large dog pin Rosie to the ground by her neck recently.She was just minding her won business retrieving her ball. I yelled "KNOCK IT OFF!" in the most booming voice I could as I ran to them. The dog didn't move as I approached and I had to hit her on the side with my chuckit ball thrower stick three times before she got off. I suspect by the third smack I was hitting pretty hard- my adrenaline was pumping. She stood up and trotted away as if nothing happened. Rosie seemed to get over it quickly and it hasn't affected her interactions with other dogs since. I hope your dog can shake it off too. I hope you are able to speak to the owners. They need to know that their dog is getting out. That's not a safe situtation. I'd be tempted to give them a kick in the butt too

07-19-2006, 04:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
D.Schäferhund let's work Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,765 Rep Power: 108	Well I agree, better the dog got kicked then tore up. The dog had no business to do that, but that kick was better then both dogs or maybe you really got hurt. I understand your anger and your fear that all the training is gone... i know how it is to have "speeding mop on the curtain rod" they never really stay put, and i can imagine you had your hands full, just holding her back and away from the other dog. But I belive you do a solid training and put put quite a bit of work in her, so it may be just a little setback, and maybe after one or two times you are back on track, and maybe she associated it just with that dog and not with dogs in general. I know how frustrating that is, but keep up the good work, I am sure it will pay off.