Domonince level?

[Ritz459]

If I don't make the Leader Dogs for the Blind puppy raising thing, I'm thinking about getting another dog for me to show, compete in obedeince, do tracking with, or just have as a new buddy. Anyways, I know some breeds (like Akitas, Mastiffs, Weimeraners, etc.) require a domonit(sp! I can't spell that worth crap!) owner. What neccessarly is a domoniate owner? And how do you know if you can handle a domoniate dog?

[Carrie]

A Doberman is often considered a dominate dog. It just means that they tend to push the limits more than a lot of dogs. Pushy, pushy, pushy. As with any dog, you cannot let them have their own way about everything and they need firm direction, training (early and a lot) and a whole helluvalot of socialization. I MEAN A LOT! Some are hard. Dobermans tend to be extremely sensative, very easily crushed and can get their little spirits broken. You have to be knowledgeable about training and/or experienced with dogs, preferably a dog that has been more difficult.

Aggressive? Yes, they sure can be. They're designed that way. Mastiff type dogs are bred to protect and guard. But they need to learn to distinguish between threats and non threats. Dobermans are known for this savy ability. But that comes from good breeding and handling. They need mass amounts of socialization. They are considered a Mastiff type dog. In order to do their job well, they must not back down in the face of an adversary. They need to stand up to them. A good dog will NOT back down. This is why they can be difficult in many ways to train. They have their own opinions and you don't want to squelch their ability to make judgements and yet you need to let them know who you are....their guide. At least most of the time, unless they're working. Sometimes things need to be left up to them to determine. So it's a partnership really. And it takes some "creative" training to get them going. They almost need to think that it was their idea. But, when they do, (I can only talk about Dobermans cuz I don't know much about the others) they are willing and incredibly intelligent and so into working....love it....a TON OF ENERGY. They need an outlet.

My Lyric is turning into a wonderful dog. He is so easy to train and so willing. (most of the time. LOL) When he knows it's a new skill I'm trying to teach him, he's ALL ears. It's the little behavior, puppy brat things that are a little harder.

Whatever you're interested in, do the research. Go to shows and talk to owners of the breed you're interested in. Talk to breeders. Read, read, read. Learn a lot about training and behavior.

That's my .02 for now. Good luck. What a neat idea.

[GSD]

If want to do the tracking and OB stuff talk with people that do it. If you don't know of a breeder that breeds working dogs like this they can put you in touch with them. And the most impt thing is these are just generalizations about a breed, and a truly dominant dog isn't very common thankfully. If you want to do these things a dominant dog isn't necessary, food drive /or prey drive is. Talk with a breeder get to know him/her, get to know a couple breeders. a good breeder will talk with you about what you want, and they'll recognize what you can handle. Most litters have a range of pups with different temperments and they will be able to match you up with a dog that can fit your style. Get to know others that have purchased pups from them and see what the dogs can do. YOu don't need a dominant dog to do these activities and a good breeder wouldn't sell one to you anyway unless that's what you asked for and demonstrated to the you were able to handle one.

[Carrie]

If you're not sure what breeds you like the best, why not do a search on those sports that you're interested in and see what dogs are typically used or good at them. See what you think of some of those dogs.

Is it those dogs you mentioned that particularily catch your eye or what? Labs are used for all kinds of things. They're excellent family dogs and easy to train....great noses, smart etc. I love and have had GSDs too. Go to a reputable breeder whatever you get. Find out what a reputable breeder is first. Very important. Just do your research and lots of it.

[Ritz459]

The breeds I'm interested in are (for the most part): GSDs, Akitas, American Bulldogs, APBTs, and the Boxers. I like Labs, but I have a special(sp) attraction to the working/guarding breeds. (I also like Ibizan Hounds and Pharaoh Hounds but those can't really excell in Obedeince or Tracking. I could do Lurecoursing with them though...) I know I have to find a reputable breeder and will take my time about finding a good one. I have The Pure Bred Puppy:A Buyers Guide book and it tells how you can find a good breeder and what questions to ask and everything like that. As of right now, I don't know 100% sure if I will be getting a dog. It depends on if I make the Puppy Raising thing. Thanks for all of your help. Do any of you guys know any good links to sites that would tell about the Breeds personality and stuff? Thanks agian for all of your help!

[GreenleafGreyhound]

Since you've come to sighthounds, I'll pitch in a bit. I've heard that beezers are actually a little non-sighthound-ish and are quite robust. I don't know too much about beezers, unless you're talking about the Podenco problem in Spain....THEN, I could pitch in some more. I know very little about Pharaohs other than their looks and standard *stupid me*. My main interest lies with Greyhounds and Pekingese...

However, it sounds like you like tough breeds who excell in sports that require a lot of contact/interraction with the handler and dog. If this is correct, don't kid yourself and do lure coursing. Coursing has little to NOTHING to do with the dog's handler. All you do is drive to the field, take the collar off, and catch the dog at the end of the course. There is nothing you can do to encourage the dog and you have nothing more to do than watch your dog do what s/he was bred to do. If you're the kind who likes activites like agility and obedience (active handler-dog team), then don't do lure coursing. Coursing is also EXTREEEEEEMELY strenuous and even the fittest of the fit can shatter hocks and legs because of a simple wrong step. I hope this clears some things up...

[GreenleafGreyhound]

I almost forgot...
There is an excellent (one of those "if you can't find it here, you can't find it" books) called Sighthounds Afield: With a Comprehensive Chapter on Ex-racing Greyhounds by Denise Como. It's a few hundred pages, but if you're a sighthound/performance events freak, you'll plow right through it.

[Carrie]

Oh! I think Greenleaf has excellent advice. It's so true that most of the working dogs work along side their person...retrievers too.

You can go to the AKC website and the specific breed clubs...like GSD club of America. That book sounds great that you've got.

My Doberman has started agility and of course, obedience. He's going to be super....very, very atheletic, quick and agile. He learns incredibly quickly. So, he's a lot of fun. But, of course, they most certainly aren't for everyone.

It's great that you're looking into it all first. Good for you!

[Rip's Girl]

To answer your question.. A dominant owner is just that. A very authoratative owner. One that is determined to remain the "pack leader" at ALL times and who will put the dogs in their place. A dominant owner is not a "wuss" (for lack of a better term) about keeping their dogs in check.

It's hard to say how you know you could handle a dominant dog.. The way I learned was by watching professional trainers work on dogs other than mine. I did (still do on occasion) "shadow" my dogs' OB trainer here in Arizona, and I saw how she worked with the 'tough guys' and the dominant dogs. I learned that you don't have to use brute force to assert your authority (and when you do, it rarely works.) but rather use your brain and outsmart the dog.

To be blunt with you, I wouldn't recommend a guarding breed, unless you truly are prepared to handle a dominant dog. I'm not saying that all working breeds are dominant, but most have that trait and it's good to be prepared for..
I wouldn't recommend a Boxer, AB, or APBT for someone who isn't an assertive, dominant owner. They all need a lot of exercise, and most importantly, training and socialization. If you want an APBT, TRAIN the living daylights out of it, and make sure you buy from a repuatable breeder. Pitties should not be used for protection, IMO. Every time a Pit Bull reacts badly to a person, it's one more bad rap for a very nice breed.
As for the Akita... This is one breed I would strongly recommend that you admire from a distance. They are wonderful dogs, but dominance, hardness and stubbornness are some of their breed characteristics. Chances are, an Akita will not do very well in obedience, and I don't think they would excel in tracking either. I've taken care of three Akitas and, although they were beautiful and good-tempered dogs, they were quite dominant and very strong.

Again.. I don't know you. You might do wonderfully with any one of these breeds. This is JMO.

[Carrie]

Yup, that's right. You can't be wishy washy. You need to take charge always. But like Rip says, it's not dominance or brute force. It's training and outsmarting them and assertiveness. Most definitely. She put it well. And I agree about what she said about the breeds. Akitas are a very hard dog and not for everyone. It takes a lot of experience with dogs, knowing them....their every little nuance of body language, to handle most working breeds....to spot at a glance and in a second what is going on with them. It's a hard thing to put into words.

[Ritz459]

Ya, I LOVE Akita's looks and their attidude on life but I don't know if I can handle one at the present. I might get one one of these days....(Like when I have my own house and am more experienced in Dog Training.) I've read all I can find about the American Bulldogs, APBTs, Boxers, and GSDs and with what I've read, I think I could handle one. I've only dog I've met with personaly out of these dogs is the Boxer, and I absolutly LOVE them. I do know that they require a lot of exercise, but I think I could provide that. I don't think I will be doing Lurecoursing but I still like the Ibizans and Pharoah Hounds. I'm going to have to decide if I could live with the GSDs shedding. I wouldn't mind a dog that shed heavily twice a year and didn't shed hardly at all the rest of the year (like an Akita) but I don't know if I could tolorate a dog shedding heavily all year round.
Even if the book is long I will probably breeze through it!! lol I love to read and can read the 5th Harry Potter book that is like, 800 some pages in about 3 days!! lol
Again, Thanks for all of the advice!! I think I will compare the breeds and see which one I like more. (Another thing the Your Pure Bred Puppy book has is complete profiles on 200 (give or take) diff. breeds.) I let you know what I narrow it down to!

[Carrie]

I love GSDs and I debated between that and a Doberman this last time around. But I'm like you.....can't stand all the hair. And where I live, they tend to shed a lot because they're inside a lot as we have hard winters and hot summers and I just like inside dogs except when they're outside. LOL....for walks, hikes or just hanging out for a while in the yard.

I have had GSDs and now this is my 1st Doberman. I love them both. I find them both to be about the most beautiful dogs in the world. LOL. It's hard to say. But I think I'm finding the Doberman to be a little more interesting to me....their personality. They really, truly have the biggest sense of humor I ever saw. (well, my Chihuahuas do too) But the intelligence is high in both dogs, but maybe a different type of intelligence. I'm still trying to analyze this. LOL. But one thing for sure, the Dobe doesn't make much mess with the hair. He is gorgeous.

[Ritz459]

I just looked at all of the dogs I mentioned and I've narrowed it down to the Boxer and the GSD. Maybe the Dobe is something to consider.... hmmmm.... Well I g2g. I have to go to piano lessons.

[GSD]

You don't have to worry about getting a dominant dog because of your interest in gurading/working breeds. If you research out and find a good breeder they would never match you up with a dog with a dominant personality. Truely dominant dogs aren't that common, but a lot are percieved that way, either because the owners never set forth their position as leader of the pack in the first place in which case it become difficult to then train the dog that they are not numero uno. The other "dominant dogs" are ones that are basically afraid of most thing and bark and lash out at everyone (not dominant dogs and not very stable) but are percieved as being dominant by most watching them. With any dog that you want to compete with in agility, ob, tracking, etc. you start out making all your training fun. as they progress the "fun"becomes more focused and more is expected out of the dog before they are rewarded. The training and the bond that is created will assert your position of pack leader without having to be heavy handed. The number one most impt thing you can do is get associated with people that are doing what you want to do and then find yourself a good breeder. There are lots of selling points out there and unfortunately a lot of new comers don't find out till its too late that they've been had by an unscrupulous breeder. Finding the right breeder will give you the best chance at getting the dog you want, then the rest is up to you. Good luck

[Carrie]

That's great GSD! I agree. You covered some really good points. I don't see my Lyric as being dominate....not at all. He's a little on the pushy side, but not in a bad way, just a little more persistant and exuberant. He totally knows who's his "Mom" and has never given me a lick of trouble other than your standard, bratty puppy stuff. He does/did things like a lot of dogs do if they're not taught their manners, like trying to squeeze past to get out the door, like a kid trying to be first in line, lol ....stuff like that. But now he has learned to "wait." He's super tolerant of the little dogs and doesn't seem to have a mean bone in his body. (other than when he is doing his "job." but that's not mean. It's a job)

But the Doberman rescue is full of Dobes that their owners couldn't handle. They are super rambunctuous till mature. But so are most of the working group. If you're not an assertive person who is experienced with dogs, I wouldn't advise one. They are not for everyone. And that goes for other working group breeds too.

And yes, the fearful, unstable dogs are dangerous. So it is so important to go to a good breeder.