Back Yard Breeders

[SalemWitchChild]

Originally Posted by gaddylovesdogs

There are 5 million dogs being euthanized in American shelters every year. IMO those people that breed their toy poodle because "she's cute" or that German shepherd that escapes from the backyard and mates with another dog are irresponsible.

And that is fine that that is your opinion. But if a person were in front of you that you knew had an accident pup, would you tell them they are irresponsible? Because if you did, expecially in a rude way, they wouldn't listen to you. It would be "in one ear out the other". Better to be nice and give them advice, then be rude and scream at them.

[Ritz459]

Originally Posted by SalemWitchChild

And that is fine that that is your opinion. But if a person were in front of you that you knew had an accident pup, would you tell them they are irresponsible? Because if you did, expecially in a rude way, they wouldn't listen to you. It would be "in one ear out the other". Better to be nice and give them advice, then be rude and scream at them.

Thus in my siggy from the book of Proverbs: "A gentle answer turns away wrath, while a harsh word stirs up anger." I guess that could also say, "A gentle word keeps your opponet from becoming critisized while a harsh word makes them stop listening." Same difference really.

[SalemWitchChild]

Originally Posted by Ritz459

Thus in my siggy from the book of Proverbs: "A gentle answer turns away wrath, while a harsh word stirs up anger." I guess that could also say, "A gentle word keeps your opponet from becoming critisized while a harsh word makes them stop listening." Same difference really.

Exactly what I was trying to convey Ritz.

[gaddylovesdogs]

Originally Posted by SalemWitchChild

And that is fine that that is your opinion. But if a person were in front of you that you knew had an accident pup, would you tell them they are irresponsible? Because if you did, expecially in a rude way, they wouldn't listen to you. It would be "in one ear out the other". Better to be nice and give them advice, then be rude and scream at them.

Did I ever say or suggest that I would loudly explain important things to them? NO. I can and do get upset over these things, but obviously no one wants to listen to screaming, so why would I do it that way instead of camly with may convince these people what they have done seriously wrong?

[SalemWitchChild]

Originally Posted by gaddylovesdogs

Did I ever say or suggest that I would loudly explain important things to them? NO. I can and do get upset over these things, but obviously no one wants to listen to screaming, so why would I do it that way instead of camly with may convince these people what they have done seriously wrong?

No you did not. That’s why I asked you if you would say it to there face, and stressed if you did rudely that they wouldn't listen. I'm just trying to make my point clear that if you are in any way harsh with people you do not agree with that they will not listen. Even if you don't mean to be harsh with them.

[TinyAlbinoDancer]

Originally Posted by Ritz459

When we found Brownie (or Brownie found us. She wandered into our yard one day and decided to stick around) we didn't know she wasn't spayed. And then the day before Blackie was to be neutered, he became a Daddy. That was a completely 'oops' litter. We didn't puropsely breed them. I only regret Brownie getting pregant a little bit because now I'm aware of all of the dogs being put down each year. But it is hard to regret it a whole bunch when Rose came out of that litter!

I've been in a similar situation with cats. We had three spayed female cats at the time, and a male cat started visiting. I was young and fed anything that came into the yard (lol), so he stayed with us, but he wasn't really our's. I fed him without my parents knowing for awhile, and when they found out they halfheartedly let me continue. So male cat- barely our's, just being fed at my house. Then a female cat started visiting, and they bred before I could even figure out one sex from the other! Neither cat was technically our's, but we ended up with both of them and 8 kittens! And back then we could barely afford the pets we already had, so it wasn't like we could afford to take any of them to the vet. But we eventually got the male nuetered and placed him with one of my aunt's friends, and we placed momma cat with several of her kittens, two other kittens went to seperate homes, and we kept two of them.

That's not even an accident, that was like, out of our hands!

And I agree that someone who leaves their dog intact and can't take responsibility for ensuring it won't breed is irresponsible, but I- personally- don't place them in the category of backyard breeders. I see backyard breeders as purposefully irresponsibly breeding dogs.

Sorry, I just wrote a novel, too. lol

Salem, forgive me for wondering, but were you still thinking of breeding your Collie? I wondered if that might have something to do with your asking, and I assure you I'm not looking for a chance to jump down your throat. Neither is anyone else here either! If you look around you'll see we are generally very gentle when we educate, and we don't criticize when the deed's already done. (Not saying you need educating or already bred her, just saying...)

[SalemWitchChild]

Originally Posted by TinyAlbinoDancer

I've been in a similar situation with cats. We had three spayed female cats at the time, and a male cat started visiting. I was young and fed anything that came into the yard (lol), so he stayed with us, but he wasn't really our's. I fed him without my parents knowing for awhile, and when they found out they halfheartedly let me continue. So male cat- barely our's, just being fed at my house. Then a female cat started visiting, and they bred before I could even figure out one sex from the other! Neither cat was technically our's, but we ended up with both of them and 8 kittens! And back then we could barely afford the pets we already had, so it wasn't like we could afford to take any of them to the vet. But we eventually got the male nuetered and placed him with one of my aunt's friends, and we placed momma cat with several of her kittens, two other kittens went to seperate homes, and we kept two of them.

That's not even an accident, that was like, out of our hands!

And I agree that someone who leaves their dog intact and can't take responsibility for ensuring it won't breed is irresponsible, but I- personally- don't place them in the category of backyard breeders. I see backyard breeders as purposefully irresponsibly breeding dogs.

Sorry, I just wrote a novel, too. lol

Salem, forgive me for wondering, but were you still thinking of breeding your Collie? I wondered if that might have something to do with your asking, and I assure you I'm not looking for a chance to jump down your throat. Neither is anyone else here either! If you look around you'll see we are generally very gentle when we educate, and we don't criticize when the deed's already done. (Not saying you need educating or already bred her, just saying...)

Novels are ok here. Am I thinking about it? I'm still not sure. Maybe down the road, but I am considering spaying her too. Which is my delema. I have a hard time doing something to my animals that I would not do myself. I see animals spayed that are not the same as they were. They seem to get fat and lazy. The reason I have been stressing to be nice while trying to convey your point is because on another forum I mentioned that I wanted to breed Kota at a later date. But that was not the question I was posing. I was asking about a sort of birth control. To stop those accidents from happening. I was bombarded with hostility that I would even think of it. None would see that the very fact that I am concerned about her getting pregnant with unwanted pups is a responsible action and a real delema for breeders. The fact that I was researching it did not matter to these people. Just the fact that they wanted to tell me not to breed at all. Granted there are dogs in the pounds put to sleep everyday. However, there are still good breeders out there and not everyone wants a pound dog.

Now that I've said this, be mindful when replying. Remember what I've said earlier in this post. Post your opinons, post your suggestions. But the moment your rude to me, I won't listen to you. You will be ignored.

[Rip's Girl]

Well Salem you already know my opinions.

What I'd like to point out though is that people on an internet forum can say whatever they want, but they can't make you do anything. If someone on the internet says that you shouldn't be thinking of breeding your dog, it doesn't mean that you absolutely shouldn't. They don't know everything, and they certainly don't know your dog as well as you do.
All I can suggest is that you breed responsibly, to better the breed. That means that you need to be honest with yourself about the quality of your dog, her conformational flaws, temperament flaws, and her health. If you do your research, and know your dog and her breed well, and you still think that it would benefit the breed if she had puppies, then I don't see how that could be in any way considered irresponsible.

[SalemWitchChild]

Originally Posted by Rip's Girl

Well Salem you already know my opinions.

What I'd like to point out though is that people on an internet forum can say whatever they want, but they can't make you do anything. If someone on the internet says that you shouldn't be thinking of breeding your dog, it doesn't mean that you absolutely shouldn't. They don't know everything, and they certainly don't know your dog as well as you do.
All I can suggest is that you breed responsibly, to better the breed. That means that you need to be honest with yourself about the quality of your dog, her conformational flaws, temperament flaws, and her health. If you do your research, and know your dog and her breed well, and you still think that it would benefit the breed if she had puppies, then I don't see how that could be in any way considered irresponsible.

yes Rips Girl I do know your opinions and they are welcomed. THis ladies and Gentlemen is what I mean by giving your opinion without pissing people off! She gives great advice, and its not harsh, or rude in any way.

Now with all the talk about Kota we've gotten offtrack. Lets get back ontrack. What are your opinions of a byb and I know some have already answered this too...But what are the qualities you look for in a responsible breeder?

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

What are the qualities I would look for in reputable breeder? First and foremost he or she must have integrity and care about the dogs. How are they housed? Are they clean? How do they react to their owner? Judging by the number of dogs, is this obviously a commercial project? Some commercial projects are acceptable, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

A breeder with a “one dog” backyard setup can be wrong too. It really depends upon the operator in charge and his or her motivation. Are money and profits the priorities or is there truly an interest in the dogs as well as a true desire to strive towards betterment of the breed because there should be.

A breeder who really cares about his or her dogs will screen the potential buyer just as carefully as he or she, the breeder, is being screened. Someone who health tests and provides proof of it, someone who cares enough about their bloodline to take their own back no matter what their age or reason for their return and who offers to be available 24 hours a day throughout the lifetime of your dog to answer any questions you may have and means it.

A person who doesn't just breed at the drop of a hat but plans their breedings for a purpose. A breeder who carefully selects the parents of each litter to emphasize desirable attributes and minimize faults in their progeny. Someone who takes pride in their bloodline, the temperament of their dogs as well as their health.

Questions that any reputable breeder should be able to answer to your satisfaction are.....

Are your Puppies registered? ( They should be )

Do you have the litter Registeration forms now? ( This should always be a yes if their making their pups available to new homes )

Do you have a Pedigree available for me to see or have.
( A reputable breeder should have at least a 3 generation pedigree to give you and their proud to show it!)

How Long have you been breeding dogs? (If only a short period of time, from where or whom did you learn?)

How many litters have you raised? ( granted, everyone has to start somewhere but I prefer someone who has raised enough generations to be able to know their own bloodline and it's faults / risk factors if any rather than taking a guess when your asking questions )

How many litters has this bitch produced? ( Just as an example, if she's three years old and is on her fourth or fifth litter she's being overbred and this is obviously someone who could care less about their dogs wellbeing )

Are the sire or dam on your premises for me to see? (you should see at least the dam)

Have your pups been health checked? ( Example, if their 8 weeks olds and have never seen the inside of the vet's office your again dealing with someone who could care less about the dogs. )

Are you a member of any recognized clubs? ( Reputable breeders typically do belong to at least one club, wether it be conformation, agility or some other, their active with their dogs )

What food are you feeding the pups? ( If their being fed from a plain white bag that say's "Dog Food" in black lettering you may want to consider this a red flag )

Where does the breeder keep his or her dogs, Inspect their living conditions. ( They should be well kept and spotless )

Do you have a sales and/or breeders contract? ( You'll find that the majority of reputable breeders if nothing else should offer a sales summary as well as their health warrenty in writing )

What type of health guarantee do you offer? ( No guarantee to me means noooo sale! )

Do you provide some type of "Care Package of Instructions", to help me care for my new puppy? ( A reputable breeder won't send you out the door without at least a feeding schedule and list of do's and do not )

How is the puppy being sold, Limited or full registration, and/or a spay/neuter contract? ( again, if there is no registration then this should send up a red flag and there should at least be some discussion on wether the breeder feels it would or would not be appropriate for the pup to be bred )

Do you have a record of the shots, med's, Vet visits, etc., that the pups have had? ( A reputable breeder will have tons of documentation )


These are but a few of the things that I look for in a responsible breeder.

[Mysticwind]

First time poster here, but here goes.

My Keeshond, Kara's former owner (I adopted her from a rescue group) would have been your typical BYB. Luckily, she never produced any litters but her mentality is that of a BYB. She bought 2 female Keeshond puppies from a puppy mill-like breeder. She already had a male Keeshond that she had bought from a pet store (he's a Hunte Co. brokered puppy). Her plans were to breed the girls to her boy a couple times a year (yes, every heat cycle but she'd planned to wait till they were at least 1 yr old to start, oh how nice) and that way she could get some extra spending money. Her only reasons for breeding them - Keeshond puppies are cute and they would sell well - those she didn't sell she figured a pet store would take, they were all AKC papered and purebred, they looked pretty and they could bring in some pocket money. By the time the girls were 6 months old they were very unsocialized from living mostly outside, they had never been to a vet and they were becoming obnoxious. So she chose to forget about the extra income and sent them to a shelter. She later had her male neutered (yay!) because he was marking all over the house. I found all this out from her directly after she sent her male to the shelter I work for because she was tired of all the barking and hair. She did reclaim him the next day and I was able to talk to her about Kara's life with her. It took all my power not to scream at her ignorance, I just kept telling myself that at least she isn't able to breed now!

I see BYB all the time through my work for a shelter. Right now is dog licensing time and if they mark their pet as unaltered I inquire as to why and then I hand out low cost s/n info. Most want to breed because he/she is such a nice dog (purebred or mixed breed) and they are sure all the puppies would be nice and smart too and lots of people would want them. I just direct them back to our dog kennel which is full of dogs and puppies that were probably born because their owners thought the same thing.

[Crossfire Bulldogs]

Welcome Mysticwind

I agree, the lady you got Kara from would be considered a BYB if she had done what she planned on doing.

Hunte Co. - I couldn't even begin to talk about how disgusted I am with them without going into a fit that would make a sailor blush!