Legal/Ethical Question... Need HELP!!!

kab819 · 01-07-2005, 07:45 PM

I found this board through Google, and looked like I might get some good advice here!
Here's the story... Our dogs, TANK (mastiff/rottie rescue) and Vicky (pit/? stray) had an 'oops' litter. Only 3 pups. One had a 'pending' home immediately. One we decided to keep. That left Sierra, the female. A friend's brother was interested, and came to see the pups at 3 wks old. No contract signed, no money changed hands. He offered to pay, but we just wanted to find her a good home. We implied that he could have her, but never definitively stated that she was his. Home visit/drop off was scheduled for tonight. It never happened. Something just didn't 'feel' right about this guy. So, in Sierra's best interest, we told him we had changed our minds. His reaction was fine, I'll get another puppy. Then it was I'm calling a lawyer. Then, he wanted $$ for the stuff he'd bought her (toys, food, etc.) and compensation towards getting another pup, for a total of $300. Now he's back to wanting to sue us for 'breach of a verbal contract'. Does he have any recourse? Do we? I've fallen in love with these pups, and will NOT release them to someone I'm uncomfortable with. Any advice???!!!

DarknessDivine · 01-07-2005, 07:54 PM

Well I can't give legal advice but I can tell you that you are in fact the dogs owner and if you feel that this would not be a good home for the pup then it is your final call.
Since money never exchanged hands for the pup, no holding feel or anything then anything he bought for the dog he bought on his own.
But this is just my opinion, you might wanna wait for Crossfirebulldogs to pop in, she is a breeder and could probably give you better info then I.

***Carrie*** · 01-07-2005, 09:11 PM

I'm not a lawyer, but I know a little about contracts after being in real estate at one time.

In this case, it doesn't sound like he has a leg to stand on. I wouldn't worry unless you think he's dangerous. But from a legal point of view, I doubt it very much. You can call a lawyer or the attourney general's office and they can give you advise. It may vary from state to state.

Crossfire, indeed might know a lot as she is a breeder and probably makes contracts. But it is possible that it's different in different states. But I doubt it. I doubt that a verbal contract is valid in this situation.

Most breeders I dealt with when searching for my dogs always reserved the right to take back a pup if they weren't happy about the pup's home or care. That was in many of their contracts.

You are right to go with your gut feeling.

***Carrie*** · 01-07-2005, 09:12 PM

Please stay with us and let us know how it turns out. This will pass.

His masters voice · 01-07-2005, 09:13 PM

'breach of a verbal contract'

This is your word against his, no witnesses, no case. Its as simple as that.

***Carrie*** · 01-07-2005, 09:25 PM

http://boards.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin...0@.ef06877/787

I wouldn't take this as written in granite, but it might be a site where you can find out something.

kab819 · 01-07-2005, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the input so far!!! From what we've been reading online, and what people have said, this guy has no hope. We're sticking by our decision. If need be, we will keep Sierra ourselves. She seems quite happy to be home with mom, dad, and brothers. We'll keep you posted on where this goes, (hopefully nowhere!!!). If anyone else has any input, I'd appreciate it!!
Kelly (and the crew of a husband, a brother in law, 2 sons, 2 dogs, 3 puppies, and a cat)

Crossfire Bulldogs · 01-08-2005, 02:14 AM

Unless you have some really wacked out civil judge any lawsuit for "breach of verbal contract" should be thrown out of court.

Basically what you have is your word against his; his assumption of agreement to purchase is just that, his assumption and since nothing was put into writing he's just out one puppy. The majority of states, as unfortunate as it may be consider dogs as property and in being so are subject to basic state terms and conditions of sale. This would be like me trying to sue you because you said you'd sell me your car and then changed your mind, without documenation there is no pending sale and no final sales agreement.

linnie · 01-08-2005, 02:32 AM

Yep dont worry about this guy he is all hot air.
Hell how many times does someone say they are going to buy something and change their mind.
No contract no written purchase papers.
A girlfriend of mine recently had the same thing happen. Only it was the breeder who decided she wanted the pup back after she had already exchanged hands.
But she gave her back to the breeder and took the other one ( she is a good doggy mummy lol)
tell this guy to take a hike. Or go ahead and waste his money if he is stupid enough

Kelly · 01-08-2005, 06:53 AM

Good luck, seems like this guy has nuthin!

So, are you spaying her soon and neutering him?

Pharlane · 01-08-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kab819

I found this board through Google, and looked like I might get some good advice here!
Here's the story... Our dogs, TANK (mastiff/rottie rescue) and Vicky (pit/? stray) had an 'oops' litter. Only 3 pups. One had a 'pending' home immediately. One we decided to keep. That left Sierra, the female. A friend's brother was interested, and came to see the pups at 3 wks old. No contract signed, no money changed hands. He offered to pay, but we just wanted to find her a good home. We implied that he could have her, but never definitively stated that she was his. Home visit/drop off was scheduled for tonight. It never happened. Something just didn't 'feel' right about this guy. So, in Sierra's best interest, we told him we had changed our minds. His reaction was fine, I'll get another puppy. Then it was I'm calling a lawyer. Then, he wanted $$ for the stuff he'd bought her (toys, food, etc.) and compensation towards getting another pup, for a total of $300. Now he's back to wanting to sue us for 'breach of a verbal contract'. Does he have any recourse? Do we? I've fallen in love with these pups, and will NOT release them to someone I'm uncomfortable with. Any advice???!!!

I breed australian shepherds.My contract read, A deposit of $150 will hold the dog/pup of your choice untill it is old enough to leave the farm.NO pup is RESEVED untill we receive a deposit on it.I understand about someone not feeling right.I have truned done alot of people because there was something about them that did not feel right.This guy called me around 8:30 pm last night and I got that feeling so I told him the pup was sold and he called 10 more times last night.I have caller I D really good thing to have......

gaddylovesdogs · 01-08-2005, 09:04 AM

I hope you spay and neuter your dogs. 5 millions dogs euthanized in American shelters...do we need more?

Pharlane · 01-08-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaddylovesdogs

I hope you spay and neuter your dogs. 5 millions dogs euthanized in American shelters...do we need more?

Sorry but that is not going to happen with my dogs

kab819 · 01-08-2005, 09:18 AM

Spaying and neutering... YES!!! Vicky was actually scheduled to be spayed, about 3 weeks before her appointment, she went into heat early, and the rest I'm sure you can figure out. As soon as we realized she was in heat, we kept them seperated, except for the ONE time I was home alone and had an emergency with my son. TANK took that opportunity. To be honest, we didn't even know she was pregnant. She's had multiple false pregnancies, and this real one was no different from the false ones. Didn't know until I freaked out when I heard a 'mouse' in my bedroom at 7am Thanksgiving day. That turned out to be puppy #1.

We expect to hear from this guy later on today. Not looking forward to it, but I am very comfortable with the decision we made. I'll let you know how it goes!
Thanks again.
Kelly (and the crew of a husband, a brother in law, 2 sons, 2 dogs, 3 puppies, and a cat)

metalmorphosis · 01-08-2005, 09:46 AM

Which pup in your avatar (I assume that's your litter) is Sierra? Just curious! Hope everything works out for you, and welcome to the boards!

01-07-2005, 07:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
kab819 :-) Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 11 Rep Power: 67	Legal/Ethical Question... Need HELP!!! I found this board through Google, and looked like I might get some good advice here! Here's the story... Our dogs, TANK (mastiff/rottie rescue) and Vicky (pit/? stray) had an 'oops' litter. Only 3 pups. One had a 'pending' home immediately. One we decided to keep. That left Sierra, the female. A friend's brother was interested, and came to see the pups at 3 wks old. No contract signed, no money changed hands. He offered to pay, but we just wanted to find her a good home. We implied that he could have her, but never definitively stated that she was his. Home visit/drop off was scheduled for tonight. It never happened. Something just didn't 'feel' right about this guy. So, in Sierra's best interest, we told him we had changed our minds. His reaction was fine, I'll get another puppy. Then it was I'm calling a lawyer. Then, he wanted $$ for the stuff he'd bought her (toys, food, etc.) and compensation towards getting another pup, for a total of $300. Now he's back to wanting to sue us for 'breach of a verbal contract'. Does he have any recourse? Do we? I've fallen in love with these pups, and will NOT release them to someone I'm uncomfortable with. Any advice???!!!

01-07-2005, 07:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
DarknessDivine Boxer Mom Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Louisville,Ky Posts: 1,239 Rep Power: 99	Well I can't give legal advice but I can tell you that you are in fact the dogs owner and if you feel that this would not be a good home for the pup then it is your final call. Since money never exchanged hands for the pup, no holding feel or anything then anything he bought for the dog he bought on his own. But this is just my opinion, you might wanna wait for Crossfirebulldogs to pop in, she is a breeder and could probably give you better info then I.
	__________________ Boxer Talk

01-07-2005, 10:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
kab819 :-) Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 11 Rep Power: 67	Thanks!! Thanks for the input so far!!! From what we've been reading online, and what people have said, this guy has no hope. We're sticking by our decision. If need be, we will keep Sierra ourselves. She seems quite happy to be home with mom, dad, and brothers. We'll keep you posted on where this goes, (hopefully nowhere!!!). If anyone else has any input, I'd appreciate it!! Kelly (and the crew of a husband, a brother in law, 2 sons, 2 dogs, 3 puppies, and a cat)

01-08-2005, 02:14 AM	#8 (permalink)
Crossfire Bulldogs Sourmug Mom Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Snuggled Between The Snorts & Snores. Posts: 7,844 Blog Entries: 3 Rep Power: 281	Unless you have some really wacked out civil judge any lawsuit for "breach of verbal contract" should be thrown out of court. Basically what you have is your word against his; his assumption of agreement to purchase is just that, his assumption and since nothing was put into writing he's just out one puppy. The majority of states, as unfortunate as it may be consider dogs as property and in being so are subject to basic state terms and conditions of sale. This would be like me trying to sue you because you said you'd sell me your car and then changed your mind, without documenation there is no pending sale and no final sales agreement.
	__________________ Get more out of Global Paw. Check out these great features. Global Paw Book Club -- Art Classes -- Woof Review I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~ Gerry Spence As a member of Global paw staff my opinions are not necessarily those of the website or the owner.

01-08-2005, 02:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
linnie tibbie girl Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 3,051 Rep Power: 168	Yep dont worry about this guy he is all hot air. Hell how many times does someone say they are going to buy something and change their mind. No contract no written purchase papers. A girlfriend of mine recently had the same thing happen. Only it was the breeder who decided she wanted the pup back after she had already exchanged hands. But she gave her back to the breeder and took the other one ( she is a good doggy mummy lol) tell this guy to take a hike. Or go ahead and waste his money if he is stupid enough
	__________________ Caution...Dogs can leave footprints on your heart

01-07-2005, 09:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,394 Rep Power: 278	I'm not a lawyer, but I know a little about contracts after being in real estate at one time. In this case, it doesn't sound like he has a leg to stand on. I wouldn't worry unless you think he's dangerous. But from a legal point of view, I doubt it very much. You can call a lawyer or the attourney general's office and they can give you advise. It may vary from state to state. Crossfire, indeed might know a lot as she is a breeder and probably makes contracts. But it is possible that it's different in different states. But I doubt it. I doubt that a verbal contract is valid in this situation. Most breeders I dealt with when searching for my dogs always reserved the right to take back a pup if they weren't happy about the pup's home or care. That was in many of their contracts. You are right to go with your gut feeling.

01-07-2005, 09:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,394 Rep Power: 278	Please stay with us and let us know how it turns out. This will pass.

01-07-2005, 09:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
His masters voice German Shepherd Dog Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In the dogs kennel avoiding the wife and kids. Posts: 199 Rep Power: 84	'breach of a verbal contract' This is your word against his, no witnesses, no case. Its as simple as that.

01-07-2005, 09:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
*Carrie* Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: north panhandle of Idaho Posts: 7,394 Rep Power: 278	http://boards.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin...0@.ef06877/787 I wouldn't take this as written in granite, but it might be a site where you can find out something.

01-08-2005, 06:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
Kelly MUTT Lover! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NH Posts: 667 Rep Power: 93	Good luck, seems like this guy has nuthin! So, are you spaying her soon and neutering him?
	__________________ When you buy from a pet store, it's like a slap in the face to those of us who've rescued! CLICK HERE to See Where That Cute Little Pet Shop Pup Comes From!

01-08-2005, 09:04 AM	#12 (permalink)
gaddylovesdogs don't have a cow! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,418 Rep Power: 149	I hope you spay and neuter your dogs. 5 millions dogs euthanized in American shelters...do we need more?
	__________________ Looking for a new pet? Search www.petfinder.com for your next love. If you have a heart, please help the victims of Hurricane Katrina. www.redcross.org

01-08-2005, 09:18 AM	#14 (permalink)
kab819 :-) Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: S.E. Pennsylvania Posts: 11 Rep Power: 67	Spaying and neutering... YES!!! Vicky was actually scheduled to be spayed, about 3 weeks before her appointment, she went into heat early, and the rest I'm sure you can figure out. As soon as we realized she was in heat, we kept them seperated, except for the ONE time I was home alone and had an emergency with my son. TANK took that opportunity. To be honest, we didn't even know she was pregnant. She's had multiple false pregnancies, and this real one was no different from the false ones. Didn't know until I freaked out when I heard a 'mouse' in my bedroom at 7am Thanksgiving day. That turned out to be puppy #1. We expect to hear from this guy later on today. Not looking forward to it, but I am very comfortable with the decision we made. I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks again. Kelly (and the crew of a husband, a brother in law, 2 sons, 2 dogs, 3 puppies, and a cat)

01-08-2005, 09:46 AM	#15 (permalink)
metalmorphosis Double Trouble Pups! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Lincolnshire, England Posts: 249 Rep Power: 74	Which pup in your avatar (I assume that's your litter) is Sierra? Just curious! Hope everything works out for you, and welcome to the boards!
	__________________ Owned by... Hoofa- SBT x (?) Cleo-Bullmastiff x Bordeaux 9 snakes and some catfish!

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