Long, long vent

[Rip's Girl]

I am crying as I type this, I hate to say these things, but I really need some support and/or advice from people who love dogs and might know what I'm going through.

It's been on my mind for a couple of months now, and I've been ignoring it. But after talking to my obedience instructor I am coming to terms with the fact that my baby Ripley might be better off in a different home.

Ripley's temperament and behavior, over the last couple of months, has been steadily getting worse, despite my, and my trainer's, efforts to help him. He has taken up screeching as a new hobby, he now screams at the top of his lungs whenever he wants something. For a month, both my trainer and I have been trying to correct this, to teach him the "quiet" command, and it has done nothing. I have asked other trainers about it, tried their suggestions, and nothing has worked.

Ripley is also not house trained. I know, part of this is due to the fact that he is intact, but for medical reasons he has not been neutered yet. Every trainer I have spoken to has suggested installing a doggy door, which would greatly help if not eliminate the problem of him going in the house, instead of letting us know when to let him out. I'm 100% for a dog door, but my parents will not install one and refuse to work with me there. Ripley takes a good 20 minutes to go to the bathroom, each time I let him out. (Yes, this is during crate training, and how badly he has to go has no effect on how long he takes) I have to let him out 6-7 times a day to avoid accidents in the house. I hate to say this, but I really cannot waste my time and my life standing around outside, waiting for the dog to go to the bathroom. I don't have the extra 2 hours a day that it takes to patiently wait out there for him to go.. SO, when he doesn't go, I put him in his crate.

Well, Ripley in the crate + the new screaming habit is HELL. He screams at the top of his lungs, endlessly (doesn't matter how tired he is) until he is let out. And, because my dad has a (few) personality disorder(s) that I will not get into, he reacts horribly to anything stressful, and in an effort to chill him out, my mom makes me let Ripley out.

He is also incredibly hard to train. Three professional trainers, all using different methods, have not been able to get him to respond. He is not interested in anything people have to offer, and I will NOT train a dog using only punishment, it's just not fair.

On top of it all, he and Dakota have to be separated constantly. Dakota is beginning to challenge me and the commands I issue, and more and more often I am finding myself dragging him away from Ripley, with Ripley screaming because he's been pounced on and hurt.

With all his problems, I love this little dog. He was there for me during a very hard time in my life, he was my companion when nobody else wanted to be, he listened to me when nobody else would, and I feel I owe it to him to do what's best for him. If that means giving him up to a home that would suit him better, I will do it. It will break my heart, but if it is truly for the best, I owe that to my dog.

I hate to say it, but "Working it out" of him has failed miserably. Some of his problems can never be solved, and although *I* could deal with them, my parents will not. I also REALLY hate to say this, because I owe Ripley so much, but I have a life outside of my dogs that I need to tend to. I don't have the 4 hours a day that I need to devote to Ripley, without having to put Dakota on hold and leave him with my parents.

Ripley will be neutered this month, at which point I will keep working with him, and continue to wait and see if there is any slight improvement.. If there is no improvement whatsoever, then I believe he would be happier in a different home, with someone who had the time and patience to devote to him, without the restrictions of impatient parents.

I'm sorry for the long vent, it probably didn't make much sense. I just needed to write it all out and to know that the people who hear it will not say "It's just a dog, what are you whining about?" or tell me to get rid of him, like I shouldn't care at all. As of right now I am not making any decisions. I just needed to vent.

-Grace

[TinyAlbinoDancer]

I don't know what to suggest. I wish I could offer some advice. I just wanted to say I kinda know the feeling. Missie and I are a horrible match, and sometimes I wonder if she'd be happier and better off with someone else. I also have restrictions as to what I can do in way of housetraining and such due to family. *sigh* So I just wanted you to know I can sympathize, and I'll support you whatever you decide. *hugs, and prayers for the right decision* Wishing you all the best, Grace.

[Cassiepeia]

You're one of the most devoted and loving 'dog people' I've ever met (well.. kinda met ). Ripley and Dakota couldn't ask for a better mum.
This sounds like a terribly trying time for you right now and I'm glad you are going to wait until after he's been neutered to make any hard decisions.
I'm not sure if I could give any advice, so I won't. Just hang in there and keep us informed. I hope things get better for you and your dogs.

Cass.

[sheltiepups]

Aww Grace I am sorry. This has to be so hard for you! I don’t know what to say except, I’m sure you’ll make the right decision when it comes time to.

[kjm]

Rip-This is so horrible. I too don't really know what to say, other than please don't feel that you've let Ripley down. In no way have you done anything close. You've done more for that little dog than many many dog owners. Maybe even more than I would do.

We're all here for you. Vent any time you need to. We'll listen. Hugs from me and Boone.

[Purr]

Aaawww...Grace, I'm sorry!! I have no idea on what to tell you, except that we're always here for you if you need us...

How about a "behaviourist"? They're different than trainers...Did you tell your mom and dad that letting Rip out when he screams will only make it worse?

I know how it can be...it's incredibly stressful, and upsetting (for you, that is). You have done more for this dog than most people would have. Many people would've given up on him, and sent him to the pound, or chained him up in the backyard. You will make the right choice, when the time comes to decide.

[IceyBlueSibes]

Sorry to hear you're going through this Grace. I basically know how it is.. Having Lilly around has made it a bit stressful for my family and I. We've decided to hang onto her, until we can get her fully potty trained, and find her a wonderful home. My mom knows of a close friend who may take her, and I am keeping her registration papers in my name, so if anything happens, we have proof she's my dog. We just have figured we don't have the time to constantly work with her 100% and the other 3 are just not up to having a puppy. We have to constantly tell her to "quit" because she pesters the others so much. My mom wishes we could keep her, but her strongest guilt is the fact of the other 3 being so depressed, and their schedule has been sorta wicky wacky. So we only feel its best that we can find someone who would give Lilly one on one attention instead of her having to compete with other dogs. She'd be best as a one dog only, or possibly one other dog. So I know how it is.. I know how you feel... We aren't in any hurry though to give her up.

You're probably one of the best dog owners I've met on here, and I'm sure you've done so much for Ripley. Especially with going through 3 different trainers, which I'm sure is quite costly. Please let us know how his progress goes... and I'm sorry your parents do not understand where you are comming from. We're here for you when you want to vent... we're all here to listen.

[G3Shepherds]

Hey Grace........wow......hey - here's my 2 cents......you sound like you really love this dog....I totally understand......I've had dogs for over 28 yrs - have had more then my share of dog problems......but nothing that couldn't be handled.......until we got the dog from hell..........named Buddy........!!! Yes - I know what your going threw to a point...So heres a little story I need to tell ya.......after losing all 3 of my loving dogs: Nikki, Casey, and Kelly....we decided to do it again....so we answered an ad.....thats where we found Buddy......on the way home, omg - he cried all the way....anyway.......couple yrs go by......we tried the kennel training, and he hated that!!!!!! He'd cry and scream and carry on like you wouldn't believe....Later on, we decide - we'll breed him and take a puppy...Thats how we got Bailey..........another yr goes by.....now Buddy is showing he's jealous of Bailey for some reason.....and they start the fighting thing.......and next thing we know.........our little Bailey takes after Buddy and tears up his leg........so bad he has to go to the Vet.........but during all this - the reason Bailey nailed Buddy is because he saw Buddy take after us, mostly me for some reason, and Buddy would bite me..........!!!! It got to be like a really bad movie........I'm not one to give up, but I was to the point of telling my husband - either get rid of him or put him down........Thats how much I grew to hate this dog.........so anyway.......I thought about it - and decided to try one more thing........we had him fixed......didn't seem to do anything much for the 1st few months........but - as the weeks and months past - Buddy started to mellow out, and now.....if Bailey grawl's at Buddy - he'll turn his head, and will not fight.....so now - and we're still working with him - and Bailey too.......Buddy is a good dog.........and I love him....so if you work hard enough and what something bad enough - it WILL WORK IT'S SELF OUT.......
Go buy books on this.......talk to your vet.....do everything you can.........and as far as the potty thing.....don't let him back in until he goes.......then praise him.......give him a treat........whatever.....and do not let up on this dog....it won't take long until he realizes his place..........From what you've said.........its sounds like to me......he's getting his way.....if he's not made to go potty........he gets to come back in........if this is a medical problem........and get this treated.........have him fixed......
Maybe another idea........if he's not keen on pottying in the backyard.......have you tried taking him for a walk?
I guess I need more info on this.......and I understand, and it sounds like your under ton's of stess with your folks......
And for the fighting thing.......keep him separated from the other dog/dogs..........keep him on a lease with a training collar........
And another thing I always try to do and god you guys are gonna laugh at me........but it helps "me"........think like a dog........put yourself in that dogs place......and try and figure out what he's going threw.........
Gotta run back to work, but I'd be more than happy to talk farther about this with you......feel free to shoot me off an email at G3Shepherds@msn.com...........
And keep your chin up..........its always darkest before the dawn!!!!

[Purr]

Aaawww...and Bud looks like such a sweet dog, too. I can't ever imagine him being mean to anybody.

[LabLuver22]

I'm so sorry, Grace. This has got to be an extremely difficult time, but you are so much more patient than most dog owners. If Ripley had been with anyone else, he probably would have been tied outside, relinquished to a shelter, etc. It's good you're not making any decisions yet. Neutering might help, although it won't completely solve his behavioral problems.

I would love to give you some advice, but I don't have any. So just know that we're here for you.

[Carrie]

Oh Grace, I am sorry you're going through this. I think I'd be thinking along the same lines if I were in your shoes. You can't go on living like this. I totally see what you mean....dogs are a HUGE part of our lives, especially people like us who are on a dog forum so much.

However, we do have to have lives apart from our dogs. That is only natural, normal and it wouldn't be healthy otherwise. They are meant for our companionship, our entertainment, to love us and we are there to give them the same. But if we are living under those conditions you describe, a little, if not a lot of resentment may sneak in and those vibes will be sensed by the dog. He won't be getting your all. And maybe it would be best for him to be an only dog with someone who has more time to deal with those problems he's having.

You're young. You have school, among other things which you cannot neglect. I totally understand the thing about not being able to stand around for 20 minutes 7 times a day, waiting for him to pee. That's something I wouldn't have a clue how to teach him. It could be some medical reason, but I kind of doubt it. It's some habit he's gotten into I bet.

If life is mostly bad for either of you and the good is over shadowed by the bad stuff, then what's the point? Dogs do adjust very well to new people. They just need to know that someone is taking care of them and they latch right on in short order. But I know how hard it will be to part with him because you love him. It would be one of those things we have to do when trying to give our dogs the best chance at the life they need with the specialized attention they may need. Not everyone has the resources to do that. But someone will.

There is an outside chance that something can be done to improve the situation, but it sounds like you've tried just about everything and that you're fighting an uphill battle. It's hard to train a dog to stop whining and being obnoxius if you can't ignore him for as long as it takes because he's bothering someone else. The ultimate thing would be to put in ear plugs and go all cotton pickin day letting him scream, but of course your parents don't want to listen to that. With all his behavior problems and aggression you've mentioned before, it would take a huge percentage of your time to try and work these things out and still, there'd be no guarantee.

But it is good that you aren't rushing to decide. That way, you'll have peace of mind when you do finally make a decision that you've done all you can.

I am so sorry that you're having to deal with this. It is a lot for a 15 yr old to have to struggle with. My heart goes out to you.

From my recent loss of Bonnie, I see that this is a astounding board with lovely, lovely people who will be here for your support, no matter which way you go with this.

((((HUGS))))

[gaddylovesdogs]

You could try an animal behaviorist...someone might be able to help.

I'm so sorry.

[Rip's Girl]

Thanks everyone for your support, it means a lot to me.

I'm looking into different dog behaviorists. One of the trainers I spoke with was also a "behaviorist" but that title is thrown around so lightly, I really don't know what to make of it. Another problem is that I'm running out of money.
I just can't keep paying big $$$$ to take him in to people who suggest the exact same things that I've been doing for the past year..

I'm just looking for any slight amount of improvement in him. If I see that, it'll give me the motivation to work through this, because if he improves even a tiny bit I think there is hope for him. But, now, all I see is that he's getting worse.

I'm not going to give up on him until I've tried every option possible, though. If I made a decision like this in haste I'd regret it for years.. I will keep working with him and really start watching for improvements after he is neutered. Thanks again everyone for your support.

[Pugdawg1]

Just wanted to pipe up and say that I know you adore your dogs, you are a VERY responsible person, and you know what is best for Ripley, and for yourself. So no matter what your decision is, I totally support you.

[G3Shepherds]

Originally Posted by Purr

Aaawww...and Bud looks like such a sweet dog, too. I can't ever imagine him being mean to anybody.

Yeah, lol........he is NOW...... I'll tell ya......it was a long road to haul, but being the person I am....(bullheaded!!!!!LOL) I wasn't about to let him get the best of me!!!......I won that battle - now just have to win the jumping thing when my husband comes home!!........But I'm almost there on that too......So if I can do it with Buddy - I truly believe anyone can the same with their dog too......